2022/23 Roster Thread XIV: Season's Beatings

[Adam Warlock]

Need someone new to sit in the press box so they can watch and learn from above

Thats still my favorite "dumb things the Flyers believe that no one else does" quote.

That was actually said by a Flyers coach and echo'd by the GM. Its another level of stupidity.

The sad part is Bedard would have to go through that shit too.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Please, please, please don't play him.

I need that content in my life.

The revolving door to the press box.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Let's see if the Pointless Punishment Phase has entered a new stage.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Please, please, please don't play him.

I need that content in my life.

The revolving door to the press box.

He'll 100% not play him. End of story.

 

[Rich Nixon]

could just give us the ol 7D 11F and give him 6 minutes.

 

[Curufinwe]

York's NHL salary is $925,000 and his AHL salary is $70,000. So even if he doesn't play, he gets more than ten times as much money for being on the Flyers active roster vs being on the Phantoms.

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

 

[gertbfrobe16]

Please, please, please don't play him.

I need that content in my life.

The revolving door to the press box.

this looks like,see we're making moves and doing hockey guy things.

 

[deadhead]

Torts is suppressing offense, but not in a bad way:

“With the coach that we have in Torts, if you’re not doing the right things defensively, I think everyone knows that you’re not gonna play,” Hayes noted. “So it’s kind of hard to ‘cheat for offense.’ Because if you’re trying to cheat and (the puck) ends up in the back of the net, you’re probably not gonna step on the ice (again). I think our team knows that. Everyone’s trying to be their best defensively.”

In other words, no cherry picking, no lollygagging on the backcheck to save your energy for offense.

“You’re trying to do the right things, you’re trying to make the right plays, you’re trying to maybe stay on your line or stay in the lineup or whatever it might be. So you want to make the right plays, you don’t want to mess up and sometimes, that goes into making plays,” Konecny echoed. “It’s difficult finding the balance. But that’s part of growing as a team too, and learning about that stuff. And when it is a good time to make a play, and when it’s not.”

Be aggressive but not stupid, a balance the Flyers have struggled with for years.

Torts focuses more on defense because it's more under the players' control:

To be clear — it’s not that Tortorella is truly “anti-offense.” It’s that he views defensive play as more controllable, in the sense that it can be effectively coached, implemented and executed. It’s why he was so frustrated early in the season even as the club racked up wins, because the Flyers were so leaky defensively in the process. They were failing at the part of the game over which they held the most active sway.

Scoring and offense, on the other hand? That’s more a product of natural talent, in Tortorella’s mind — talent that the Flyers clearly lack.

Loss to Capitals points to Flyers' identity — a hardworking, stingy club that can't score

The Flyers played hard and Carter Hart didn't give up a weak goal in a 4-1 loss to the Capitals. There's just one problem: They can't score.

theathletic.com

I think he's right, you can't really coach what top offensive players do, much of it is instinctive, pattern recognition and the eye to hand coordination to take advantage of it. You can coach skating, puck handling and shooting, but that's the domain of skill coaches, mostly in the off-season.

Take zone entries, I was watching them do that, and they did try to skate and pass it into the O-zone, what was obvious was they weren't very good at it. And if you're stopped at the blue line, then your next option is to dump and chase, not stand there like an idiot and try to deke a guy you haven't beat. And most of that is skating and puck handling, not scheme. If you play aggressive entry with unskilled players, it's a recipe for turning over the puck.

 

[BernieParent]

I guess Tortorella woke up as Dr. Develop this morning. We'll see how long he remains as such before he turns back into Mr. Compete. Maybe York should just wait on the bus to save the fare back to Lehigh Valley.

 

[DancingPanther]

Yeah, gotta think that

 

[JojoTheWhale]

From the day of the hire:

I'll toss out a key adjustment that will tell you early if he's learned a single thing. Watch the breakouts from their own zone. He stopped having much Winger support his last few years in Columbus. I get that this has positives and negatives, but it was a blindingly clear example of his risk aversion. That's where so much of their offense died. It's not like they have the defensive corps to do well in that aspect without systemic help.

 

[gertbfrobe16]

Fri. @7pm est Bu vs BC on Espn news ch.

 

[deadhead]

I think Torts just wants to balance winning enough to keep his players motivated with developing young players.
Constantly losing is not a good environment to develop young players, nor a team that undisciplined with a lack of structure (see last season).

If he's bring York on this trip, wouldn't surprise me to see him get into a couple games to gauge his progress.

 

[flyerslducks]

Torts is suppressing offense, but not in a bad way:

Hahahahahahaha, sounds bad to me

 

[Striiker]

I can’t think of a better piece of proof that Torts is an incompetent dinosaur than the fact that he thinks playing top prospects and trying to win are two different things.

Especially on a roster that has as many sub-NHL players as this one.

Time to retire, you miserable prick.

 

[deadhead]

From the day of the hire:

His last couple years in CBJ he had the same problem he has here - the GM had traded for Duchene (2019 1st), and Dzingel ((2) 2nd rd picks and Duclair), then let both of them walk after the 2018-19 season, along with Panarin and Bob.

Torts got them back to the playoffs with a conservative approach. With Atkinson missing half the season, his top scorers were Dubois, Nyquist, Bjorkstrand, Foligno (32), Jenner, Weenberg, Werenski carried much of the scoring load (20 goals). That approach got good seasons out of Kirpisalo and Merzlikins, and it's been down hill for both since that season.

Then Anderson was traded for Domi the next fall. In January Dubois was traded for Laine and Roslovic, which meant it was time to go, because Laine is exactly what Torts hates.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Torts is suppressing offense, but not in a bad way:

“With the coach that we have in Torts, if you’re not doing the right things defensively, I think everyone knows that you’re not gonna play,” Hayes noted. “So it’s kind of hard to ‘cheat for offense.’ Because if you’re trying to cheat and (the puck) ends up in the back of the net, you’re probably not gonna step on the ice (again). I think our team knows that. Everyone’s trying to be their best defensively.”

In other words, no cherry picking, no lollygagging on the backcheck to save your energy for offense.

“You’re trying to do the right things, you’re trying to make the right plays, you’re trying to maybe stay on your line or stay in the lineup or whatever it might be. So you want to make the right plays, you don’t want to mess up and sometimes, that goes into making plays,” Konecny echoed. “It’s difficult finding the balance. But that’s part of growing as a team too, and learning about that stuff. And when it is a good time to make a play, and when it’s not.”

Be aggressive but not stupid, a balance the Flyers have struggled with for years.

Torts focuses more on defense because it's more under the players' control:

To be clear — it’s not that Tortorella is truly “anti-offense.” It’s that he views defensive play as more controllable, in the sense that it can be effectively coached, implemented and executed. It’s why he was so frustrated early in the season even as the club racked up wins, because the Flyers were so leaky defensively in the process. They were failing at the part of the game over which they held the most active sway.

Scoring and offense, on the other hand? That’s more a product of natural talent, in Tortorella’s mind — talent that the Flyers clearly lack.

Loss to Capitals points to Flyers' identity — a hardworking, stingy club that can't score

The Flyers played hard and Carter Hart didn't give up a weak goal in a 4-1 loss to the Capitals. There's just one problem: They can't score.

theathletic.com

I think he's right, you can't really coach what top offensive players do, much of it is instinctive, pattern recognition and the eye to hand coordination to take advantage of it. You can coach skating, puck handling and shooting, but that's the domain of skill coaches, mostly in the off-season.

Take zone entries, I was watching them do that, and they did try to skate and pass it into the O-zone, what was obvious was they weren't very good at it. And if you're stopped at the blue line, then your next option is to dump and chase, not stand there like an idiot and try to deke a guy you haven't beat. And most of that is skating and puck handling, not scheme. If you play aggressive entry with unskilled players, it's a recipe for turning over the puck.

Nah, he is suppressing offense in a bad way, on top of the total lack of talent Fletcher has meticulously and deliberately built. The lack of talent is the biggest problem, but make no mistake; the way the roster is used and told to play is bad too, and does nothing to help the problem. And I'm sure it makes the problem worse.

Let's ponder how NHL offense works, yes? The most effective way to score is to score off the rush, in the chaos that ensues before a defense is set and coming in with enough speed to make it hard for a goalie to be on angle, that sort of thing. Once you're on the cycle, the most dangerous place to set up plays comes from down low, but that's far less productive.

Every competent and up-on-the-times NHL team works to maximize offense on the rush. It's the most efficient means of scoring. And they do that by embracing a ton of stuff that was bleeding edge when Boudreauxhad the Caps doing it. Drop passes, horizontal passes. Puck carrier attracts defense, dishes to someone in space to cram the rush down the defense's throat and try to force mistakes while getting to the best scoring areas. And if you actually watch what these teams are doing, their cycles now often focus less on winning the down-low grind battles and more on setting up sort of mini-rushes from inside the zone. That's how modern offenses work. It's how scoring is going up. It's what players are doing, and it capitalizes on the increased offensive talent players are growing now that they can grow up worrying more about scoring rather than being decapitated for trying.

This is all the stuff Tortorella rails against. Those horizontal passes to set up mini-rushes off the cycle? The Boudreau-style entries with 3 or 4 supporting rushers aimed at maximizing chance quality? It all involves plays Tortorella lambasts for being dangerous. Other teams are trying to maximize the rush. The Flyers under Tortorella are happy to try and push the slot if it's easily and readily available, but they rarely take risks trying to force the matter like other teams do. Our rushers steer more towards the boards than towards the center of the ice like you see around the league up and down rosters. When challenged, they default fast to the perimeter rather than trying to keep the open rush alive. Then the board battle begins. And yes, it's an improvement over Hakstol and AV because he does send two forecheckers to be aggressive about it; but it's a hell of a lot less effective than what the rest of the league is doing. They're seeking to maximize what they can do on the rush when play is most open and chances are there more often. The Flyers are defaulting to trying to get low and set up from there, which is by default less threatening. It's safer, but it minimizes scoring opportunities and also ensures you're doing little to capitalize on creative skill on the roster. This style could work in that mini-Dead Puck Era of the 2010s, but that brief oddity is gone now.

And because he was hired for his defensive reputation and due to Fletcher/Flahr's obsession with that stuff, we all know they're asking for him to provide what we saw from him with the Rangers. Which is a problem of its own. He doesn't understand how modern offense works. So he doesn't understand that his trademark defensive formation is obsolete. It doesn't work anymore. It's good at defending down low. But they routinely yield a shitload of ice high, and that space up high is where teams now set up those mini-rushes. So that defense isn't working anymore. It bleeds constant chances. The game has passed him by completely, and it stems from his unwillingness to understand offense.

 

[Magua]

“With the coach that we have in Torts, if you’re not doing the right things defensively, I think everyone knows that you’re not gonna play,” Hayes noted. “So it’s kind of hard to ‘cheat for offense.’ Because if you’re trying to cheat and (the puck) ends up in the back of the net, you’re probably not gonna step on the ice (again). I think our team knows that. Everyone’s trying to be their best defensively.”

In other words, no cherry picking, no lollygagging on the backcheck to save your energy for offense.

I chortled. If that's true, then Kevin Hayes might be the worst brand ambassador since OJ Simpson and Hertz. His entire game is built on cherry picking, lollygagging, and saving energy. I don't even think it's debatable.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Calling up York so he can be the 7th D would just be so Flyers

Or he will be in the lineup and be benched for making a mistake Seeler or Braun make 6 times a game and don’t miss a shift

 

[flyerslducks]

what about detroit for provorov? Trying to figure out what team needs defense on left side. Florida does but they don't have much cap, canucks want rhd more, can't really think who needs one besides la too.

Detroit has chiarot+maata/oesterle who are UFAs with edvinsson coming soon. They could roll provorov/edvinsson/chiarot on the left side and they have a ton of forwards to offer. They also have their picks (and an extra 2nd this year), Beggren is doing well, veleno, kasper, soderblom. Lots of young and exciting prospects + some other pieces like zadina who can be added if needed. I'm sure Detroit would try to trade bertuzzi and fletcher would resign him immediately as they want to win now tho.

 

[deadhead]

I chortled. If that's true, then Kevin Hayes might be the worst brand ambassador since OJ Simpson and Hertz. His entire game is built on cherry picking, lollygagging, and saving energy. I don't even think it's debatable.

And who do you think has been taken to the carpet repeatedly for "cheating.?"

Offensive rushes still come down to skill, when you have skill players who can deke and puck handle, defensemen tend to retreat, giving easy entry to the O-zone, when you don't have skill players, they come up and challenge and try to force turnovers at the blue line and disrupt entries.

 

[renberg]

what about detroit for provorov? Trying to figure out what team needs defense on left side. Florida does but they don't have much cap, canucks want rhd more, can't really think who needs one besides la too.

Detroit has chiarot+maata/oesterle who are UFAs with edvinsson coming soon. They could roll provorov/edvinsson/chiarot on the left side and they have a ton of forwards to offer. They also have their picks (and an extra 2nd this year), Beggren is doing well, veleno, kasper, soderblom. Lots of young and exciting prospects + some other pieces like zadina who can be added if needed. I'm sure Detroit would try to trade bertuzzi and fletcher would resign him immediately as they want to win now tho.

Yzerman is not Fletcher. He is not stupid enough to give up any DCs of value while he is doing a rebuild. He also won't give up talent on his roster. There are other places where Provorov can be dealt if Fletcher can get creative (LOL). Try Vancouver, LAK, Florida, Toronto and others for starters.

 

[Beef Invictus]

And who do you think has been taken to the carpet repeatedly for "cheating.?"

Offensive rushes still come down to skill, when you have skill players who can deke and puck handle, defensemen tend to retreat, giving easy entry to the O-zone, when you don't have skill players, they come up and challenge and try to force turnovers at the blue line and disrupt entries.

Offensive rushes also depend greatly on how players play; based on how they're told to play.

 

[deadhead]

And how you tell them to play depends on talent, you trust a player with good vision and instincts to make a cross ice pass that won't be intercepted, you tell Allison to go north-south after a few bad passes to the other team. And you tell MacEwen to dump and chase.

I doubt anyone told Giroux what to do on the ice.

2016-17 CBJ, ES 195 (league 170)
2017-18 CBJ, ES 193 (league 183)
2018-19 CBJ, ES 214 (league 189)
2019-20 CBJ, ES 146 (league 160) after Panarin, et al. left town