2022/23 Roster Thread XIII: Where the 13th Floor Has Been Located

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Oh good. The AHL team won a game. Fletcher has truly saved us.

Some of those young kids should be up with the Flyers but no, we got to have Fletchers no skill try hard bums in the lineup

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Deady and GB need to listen to that Frank S piece

they will wear ear plugs yelling "ne nrr ne ner..." the whole time

 

[Magua]

Ed would usually give the green light to spend money on whoever and however to get quality players and keep the team fighting each year for a playoff spot. We have NONE of that other than Chuck just going out and getting whoever he's a "fan" of, instead of what is better for the team overall.

But they still do that, no? Spending is not an issue (blank check!); they attempt to fight each year for a playoff spot, even this one in the summer. Everyone in this organization wanted to give Gaudreau his mega deal. It was not all pretty in the post-cap world before Snider’s passing.

I see the problem as not with spending or the facade of competing…..but with stubborn pride and a lack of real vision from the top down. Spending less, or spending to acquire assets not talent, and having no intent to compete but to grow is what dumbfounds them.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

If the Flyers did wholesale changes this off-season, as in a new coach (hopefully a young one or one that is a good assistant that could be a good coach) and a full management change I would go f***ing balls out to change things up. Yeah, it's gonna be wild and I know people won't be happy about it, but f*** it, why not:

Buyout Atkinson.

Sign Soucy.

Trade Hayes, half salary retained, to Boston for their 1st.

Trade Provy, Hart, Allison + the rights to Fedotov to the Wild for Boldy, Wallstedt, Goligoski (for cap reasons) and their 1st.
Why the Wild would do this is that they have a good team right now but could benefit greatly from a now-young-goalie like Hart and Provy could round out their top 2 LD spots.

Boldy-Couts-Konecny
Farabee-Frost-Tippett
Laughton-Foerster-Brink
Destroyer-Wisdom-Laz
ND

Sanheim-TDA (let TDA's contract run out)
York-Goligoski
Zamula-Soucy
Risto

Wallstedt
Sandstrom/Ersson

This would be right near the bottom of the floor but with a ton of young players and would give the Flyers 3 1sts in the upcoming draft. This can also give time to Emil and Cutter to have some good play time in the AHL to be brought up a bit slower and bit more proper. If anything, this forces the kids to play.

This was done out of boredom and wanting something different. This is a kind of team that would get me to watch just because of the potential of some of the kids.

But they still do that, no? Spending is not an issue (blank check!); they attempt to fight each year for a playoff spot, even this one in the summer. It was not all pretty in the post-cap world before Snider’s passing.

I see the problem as not with spending or the facade of competing but with stubborn pride and a lack of real vision.

You're right, they are spending money. That is true. However, Ed was definitely someone, as an owner, that had input on who was to be brought in because he actually gave a shit about the game of hockey rather than see it as nothing more than dollar signs. And you're very right about the lack of vision with Chuck and co because there are basically given free reign to spend whatever, but ownership turning a blind eye to all the shittiness just enables more of it. It's a failure top to bottom.

 

[Beef Invictus]

They spend on analytics just to ignore them.

 

[Magua]

They spend on analytics just to ignore them.

They have the largest analytics department, tied with Toronto.

That’s like North Korea having the highest per capita civil rights lawyers.

 

[Strawberry Fields]

The team and fans always romanticize the bully aspect and only the bully aspect of the Broad Street Bullies. Lost in the shuffle is that Clarke, dirty tendencies aside, was probably the best two way player in the league and was surrounded by important skill players like Leach, Barber, Macleish whose primary forte was not fighting. All these guys were the key skaters on those teams, and of course having the best goalie in the league was also vital. But no, finding the modern day Dave Schultz is clearly what we should be taking away from the only squads in team history to win it all.

 

[usahockey22flyers]

But they still do that, no? Spending is not an issue (blank check!); they attempt to fight each year for a playoff spot, even this one in the summer. Everyone in this organization wanted to give Gaudreau his mega deal. It was not all pretty in the post-cap world before Snider’s passing.

I see the problem as not with spending or the facade of competing…..but with stubborn pride and a lack of real vision from the top down. Spending less, or spending to acquire assets not talent, and having no intent to compete but to grow is what dumbfounds them.

Agreed. Spending is not an issue at all. It’s how they spend, and why/when they spend.

 

[Curufinwe]

Can Bellows go on waivers already? Probably won't be claimed, but they might just find another sucker out there.

 

[DancingPanther]

They spend on analytics just to ignore them.

My theory is they're not actually doing what we think.

For example, I could say "come to my pharmacy to fill your meds- we staff the most pharmacists of any store in the county!" but some are working with drug companies to get discounted drugs, some are following up with patients all day, some are supervisors, and only 5 are actually filling prescriptions.

Chuck the type of guy that hires someone under the analytics department and has them measuring average wrist shot speed

 

[Fight4yourRight]

Just my opinion, and I recall @LegionOfDoom91 having a similar one. I don’t think ownership is even the biggest issue. It’s clueless Dave Scott and his deference to the “senior advisor” assclowns that is at the heart of it. They are who hired Cuck and who have been behind the hiring of AV, Therrien, Yeo and Torts. Since when are deep pockets and a relative hands off approach a bad thing in pro hockey? As has been mentioned, they spend a lot on analytics for it to just be ignored anyway. What exactly are we looking for in a new owner? Clearly the priority would be to rid ourselves of the Clarkes of the world. That to me is a goal and change that can be achieved without a new owner.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Just my opinion, and I recall @LegionOfDoom91 having a similar one. I don’t think ownership is even the biggest issue. It’s clueless Dave Scott and his deference to the “senior advisor” assclowns that is at the heart of it. They are who hired Cuck and who have been behind the hiring of AV, Therrien, Yeo and Torts. Since when are deep pockets and a relative hands off approach a bad thing in pro hockey? As has been mentioned, they spend a lot on analytics for it to just be ignored anyway. What exactly are we looking for in a new owner? Clearly the priority would be to rid ourselves of the Clarkes of the world. That to me is a goal and change that can be achieved without a new owner.

There comes a time where ownership starts to be at blame here. The fact that Dave Scott hasn't been replaced at this point with where the organization is is pathetic. As time goes by and with the rumors that have been going on of Dave Scott retiring at some point in the very near future it just smells of corporate bureaucracy. They're allowing their good soldier to ride off into the sunset instead of an unceremonious departure and the team and the fanbase are the ones that are punished.

No Dave Scott is not the one that makes the day to day decisions but when the product is this bad and embarrassing to the brand SOMETHING needs to happen.

 

[Cody Webster]

Anisimov, Foerster, Lyscksell, Desnoyers, York, Attard, and Zamula should be brought up. There easily are four forwards and three defensemen that the Flyers who are icing that can be replaced. Who should go is up for you to decide. There are so many of them to choose from.

Revolving door baby

I'm patient, I'm old enough to have lived through some horrible franchises, the Phillies for two bad stretches, the Eagles before Lurie bought them, "the process" with the Sixers. Flyers have had only one bad stretch, and that was before most of you were fans,
1989-1994, missed the playoffs five straight seasons, fired Clarke as GM and Holmgren as HC.

1990 drafted: Ricci #4, SImon #25, Renberg #40, Therien #47
1991 drafted: Forsberg #6, Yushkevich #122
1992: totally blew the draft - Sittler #7, Bowen #15, Metlyuk #31, none played in the NHL
1993: drafted: Ninimaa #36, Prospal #71

The key were trades, Recchi and 3rd for LeClair and Desjardins
Ron Sutter for Brind'Amour
1993, 1994 1st, Simon, Ricci, Forsberg, Hextall for Lindros

Watching LHV destroy a good Rochester team, led by their prospects, makes me more hopeful than the last time I saw them.

Clarke fired as GM in 90 and over 30 years later, after getting hired and fired a second time, he's still calling the shots....great organization

 

[Danko]

When Valarie becomes the new Dave Scott - things are only going to get worse....if that is possible.

 

[deadhead]

Some fantasy stuff here.

1) Comcast is Philly based, and the Flyers may be as much vanity as economics, but there are real synergies between the Flyers, Wells Fargo Center and Comcast cable.

2) The problem isn't Comcast, but Scott. Scott simply doesn't understand the NHL - you don't need a hockey guy, you need a hard working executive who does his homework, not some company man playing out the string. Any competent executive could spend a week on the internet, learn about the game, different schemes, various HCs and the best HC candidates, team building, etc. But it's much easier to sit in a boardroom with a bunch of "advisors" and take their advise on who to hire and whether the team can compete. Scott seems more of a marketing guy than a manager, prone to wishful thinking and selling the sizzle.

3) Torts isn't the problem, he's part of the solution. He's not a "Bullies" guy, he's a fundamentals at high speed guy. And match Rocky Thompson's resume and approach to any young HC candidate, pretty much the same box of chocolates - he's a believer in analytics, the transition game, D-men attacking in the O-zone, et. Coaching isn't the problem, talent is.

4) It's a 3-5 year rebuild, there's no need to rush prospects or decisions. If they want a new GM, unless they go with Briere, might as well wait until after the season when contracts expire. No idea if Briere is any good, some teams (the Devils) did very well promoting from within, others not so much.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

 

[deadhead]

Anisimov, Foerster, Lyscksell, Desnoyers, York, Attard, and Zamula should be brought up. There easily are four forwards and three defensemen that the Flyers who are icing that can be replaced. Who should go is up for you to decide. There are so many of them to choose from.

Eventually. There's no rush, they're not going to develop faster on a floundering NHL team.

Lycksell yes, he's 23 with a lot of SHL experience, he's in a different league in terms of NHL readiness, all he needed was some time on NA ice to make the transition. And he'd probably be up if he hadn't got injured and missed two weeks.

Foerster, Desnoyers are 20 with limited PT the last two years. What's the rush? They're getting plenty of PT, you want to play them on the 4th line instead of Brown and Willman? And what happens when JVR, Laughton, TK, and Allison return over the next few weeks? Right now it's more important for them to play on a regular basis and audition players like Bellows and Frost and Tippett.

York will be the first to come up, but there are two issues, one is with all the young forwards, you want to stabilize the defense, Braun and Seeler have been the two most consistent D-men. Second is maintaining value for the TDL, if they keep playing well, both D-men are trade bait, playoff teams pay a premium for defensive depth going into the playoffs.

It's a long season, there are 20 games after the TDL, plenty of time for a young player to get a good look and prepare to start next season.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Some fantasy stuff here.

1) Comcast is Philly based, and the Flyers may be as much vanity as economics, but there are real synergies between the Flyers, Wells Fargo Center and Comcast cable.

2) The problem isn't Comcast, but Scott. Scott simply doesn't understand the NHL - you don't need a hockey guy, you need a hard working executive who does his homework, not some company man playing out the string. Any competent executive could spend a week on the internet, learn about the game, different schemes, various HCs and the best HC candidates, team building, etc. But it's much easier to sit in a boardroom with a bunch of "advisors" and take their advise on who to hire and whether the team can compete. Scott seems more of a marketing guy than a manager, prone to wishful thinking and selling the sizzle.

3) Torts isn't the problem, he's part of the solution. He's not a "Bullies" guy, he's a fundamentals at high speed guy. And match Rocky Thompson's resume and approach to any young HC candidate, pretty much the same box of chocolates - he's a believer in analytics, the transition game, D-men attacking in the O-zone, et. Coaching isn't the problem, talent is.

4) It's a 3-5 year rebuild, there's no need to rush prospects or decisions. If they want a new GM, unless they go with Briere, might as well wait until after the season when contracts expire. No idea if Briere is any good, some teams (the Devils) did very well promoting from within, others not so much.

It's 2022 in a world where giant corporations own nearly all sports franchises. Dave Scott does nothing and is expected to do nothing when it comes to the team.

You don't need or want someone from that world making decisions in the sports world. What you do want is to have competent management in the Front Office. The Flyers don't have that. Dave Scott is only to blame for not cleaning house and instilling an even half competent front office. He is not to blame for anything other than that with where the team currently is because he doesn't actually do do anything when it comes to the team.

 

[renberg]

Some fantasy stuff here.

1) Comcast is Philly based, and the Flyers may be as much vanity as economics, but there are real synergies between the Flyers, Wells Fargo Center and Comcast cable.

2) The problem isn't Comcast, but Scott. Scott simply doesn't understand the NHL - you don't need a hockey guy, you need a hard working executive who does his homework, not some company man playing out the string. Any competent executive could spend a week on the internet, learn about the game, different schemes, various HCs and the best HC candidates, team building, etc. But it's much easier to sit in a boardroom with a bunch of "advisors" and take their advise on who to hire and whether the team can compete. Scott seems more of a marketing guy than a manager, prone to wishful thinking and selling the sizzle.

3) Torts isn't the problem, he's part of the solution. He's not a "Bullies" guy, he's a fundamentals at high speed guy. And match Rocky Thompson's resume and approach to any young HC candidate, pretty much the same box of chocolates - he's a believer in analytics, the transition game, D-men attacking in the O-zone, et. Coaching isn't the problem, talent is.

4) It's a 3-5 year rebuild, there's no need to rush prospects or decisions. If they want a new GM, unless they go with Briere, might as well wait until after the season when contracts expire. No idea if Briere is any good, some teams (the Devils) did very well promoting from within, others not so much.

Well if it isn't Comcast or Torts and his staff who are is the problem, then that only leaves Fletcher. He needs to go and take Flahr along with him. Too many dunces in management. Flahr really needs to open up a large can of quiet. He says some of the dumbest things. CIP, read today's article int he Inky on York. The fat man makes no sense.

 

[BiggE]

You can still get damn good players in the 2nd round, stop down playing it, Robertson, debrincat etc, 2nd round picks, and it's not a minor inconvenience when you have the team cap strapped long term, it's a major inconvenience actually, risto for 5 years, is a major inconvenience regardless of a rebuild, which they clearly aren't doing, torts isn't the gm, torts is not running this team, it's your boy chuckles, who you've gone great lengths to defend

Amen
Btw, here are some players drafted by the Flyers in the 2nd round:
Bobby Clarke
Bill Clement
Tom Bladon
Pelle Lindbergh
Peter Zezel
Scott Mellanby
Mikael Renberg
Janne Niinimaa
Carter Hart

Taken in the 2nd round 2010 thru 2017
Justin Faulk
Tyler Toffoli
Boone Jenner
Brandon Saad
William Karlsson
Tristan Jarry
Tyler Bertuzzi
Sebastian Aho
Erik Cernak
Vince Dunn
Alex Debrincat
Samuel Girard
Jason Robertson

But yeah, 2nd round picks don’t matter

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

 

[BiggE]

So, in real speak, we have

Mostly dead: Ellis
Somewhat dead: Cam & Couts
Coughing up blood: Laughton, JVR & TK
Almost better but likely to blow out his knee taking a shit: Allison

 

[deadhead]

It's 2022 in a world where giant corporations own nearly all sports franchises. Dave Scott does nothing and is expected to do nothing when it comes to the team.

You don't need or want someone from that world making decisions in the sports world. What you do want is to have competent management in the Front Office. The Flyers don't have that. Dave Scott is only to blame for not cleaning house and instilling an even half competent front office. He is not to blame for anything other than that with where the team currently is because he doesn't actually do do anything when it comes to the team.

You cannot make an intelligent hiring decision if you have no clue what the guy you're hiring is supposed to do.
You do your homework so you know enough to be able to evaluate the people you hire, and whether they're doing a good job.
Otherwise you're at the mercy of "experts," whether advisors or some outside consulting firm.

 

[deadhead]

Amen
Btw, here are some players drafted by the Flyers in the 2nd round:
Bobby Clarke
Bill Clement
Tom Bladon
Pelle Lindbergh
Peter Zezel
Scott Mellanby
Mikael Renberg
Janne Niinimaa
Carter Hart

Taken in the 2nd round 2010 thru 2017
Justin Faulk
Tyler Toffoli
Boone Jenner
Brandon Saad
William Karlsson
Tristan Jarry
Tyler Bertuzzi
Sebastian Aho
Erik Cernak
Vince Dunn
Alex Debrincat
Samuel Girard
Jason Robertson

But yeah, 2nd round picks don’t matter

Out of how many? Your odds of a top 6/top 4 player
#1-5: about 72%
#6-15: about 34%
#16-25: about 23%
#26-30: about 18%
2nd rd: about 10% (pretty flat until around #55)

This is also why trading for 1st rd picks doesn't jump start a rebuild, since most of those picks are in the 20s, you might land 1 top starter and a couple depth guys out of 3-4 1st rd picks.

 

[Danko]

The majority of the problem starts above Chuck Fletcher...above Dave Scott even. Comcast put Dave Scott in charge of running the team, and he's running it alright...right into the ground. You have a guy who has no passion or even ties to hockey to oversee an iconic franchise who really ran on Heart/Soul decisions rather then on Intelligence when Snider ran the team. Dave Scott is a financial guy...former CFO of Comcast Cable in 2000's is his claim to fame...should have known he was a loser with that alone.

It's also mind boggling that as a financial guy, he doesn't see the opportunity in front of him to make a ton of money by instilling winning culture and pride back into the team. You won't need any Gimmicks, Gritty, or bullshit that isn't the product on the ice, when they are winning.

If you can get this team successful again you just run it on auto pilot. Fans will show up, spend money, and sell out every game again...but these clowns in charge don't get it.

With Scott planning to retire and hand the reigns over to Valerie Camillo, the primary person who is running these gimmicks, marketing bullshit, that really comes off as minor league baseball like, and not focusing on the product on the ice...the future looks even darker in that aspect. You are constantly reacting to drops in attendance and disinterest.

I agree with Frank...the org needs to bottom out and be sold to private ownership.