2022/23 Roster Thread XII: The Twelfth Night, a comedy play

[flyerslducks]

Tristan? I wouldn’t put it past them.

hahahahaa tage my bad lol, both play center position lol

 

[Flyerfan4life]

I have to ask, what were you expecting Torts to be like and what made you think that would be the case?

ive liked the way he coached style wise but was leary of the loves Vets talk... and i thought his time away from the game he actualy learned the game has changed..

when he was on the panel he would mention things about how to succeed in todays NHL.

but soon as he came here its like he throu all that out the window and has reverted backwards 20 years..

 

[GapToothedWonder]

ive liked the way he coached style wise but was leary of the loves Vets talk... and i thought his time away from the game he actualy learned the game has changed..

when he was on the panel he would mention things about how to succeed in todays NHL.

but soon as he came here its like he throu all that out the window and has reverted backwards 20 years..

Fair enough.

 

[deadhead]

Last 7 games, best metrics on the Flyers:
forwards:
Sedlak CF 57.34%, xGF 61.06%
Cates CF 54.53%, xGF 56.76%
TK CF 58.25%, xGF 56.33%
MacEwen CF 54.47%, xGF 55.02%
Laczynski CF 51.40%, xGF 53.96%
Frost CF 49.18%, xGF 53.19%
Hayes CF 52.85%, xGF 53.11%
Laughton CF 52.85%, xGF 51.50%
Tippett CF 48.92%, xGF 50.23%

defensemen:
Braun CF 52.46%, xGF 61.26%
Seeler CF 53.63%, xGF 59.93%, GF/GA 7-0
Risto CF 47.14%, xGF 54.41%
Sanheim CF 49.13%, xGF 52.95%

Being "sheltered" explains some of the D metrics, same with Sedlak and Laczynski, but Cates is playing a big role with less than ideal iinemates. And MacEwen is getting lots of ice time.

 

[deadhead]

TL/DR: A line xGF is best predicted by its second best player because it tells you how good your best player is on that line….linemates matter considerably.

From the article:
I find this conclusion really interesting. Are NHL forward lines strong or weak link systems? I guess…. neither? Instead, NHL teams should be ensuring they have a fantastic second option on a line above all else. Here is how I would phrase these results from a hockey perspective.

Stars matter a lot in hockey, but the data suggests that there is only so much one player can do to drive a lines offence. To get the most out a line, the best player will need help. That being said there is still only so much puck to go around, so you hit diminishing returns when upgrading the third best player on a line. So, instead of trying to load up a line with three superstars, you should focus on getting the lines best player a strong second option and that is likely the best way to increase its offensive output.

I think this makes sense if we think about so many of the leagues most efficient offensive players because they often have a great teammate playing alongside them. Think McDavid-Draisaitl, Marner-Matthews, Ovi-Backstrom etc. So, if you are ever mad at your favourite team for playing two great players together I get it, but maybe the team is on to something. The second best player on a line seems like the best predictor of its offensive results.

Yeah, I think there's a chemistry issue as well, if you have two talented players on a line, who have played together for a while, they can quickly integrate a third linemate, three playing together for an extended period and you have the "perfection line." Note how G and Couts could switch between Voracek and TK, two RWs with very different style of play, and not miss a beat,

Hayes - TK
Cates - MacEwen
Frost - Farabee (but Farabee is definitely "off" right now).

Not exactly ideal right now.

 

[Curufinwe]

Have you considered feeding the ducks?

 

[deadhead]

Have you considered feeding the ducks?

Why aren't you working?

 

[BiggE]

They are the worst run franchise in pro sports and stone cold proof that Comcast doesn’t give a shit about how well they perform on the ice as long as they sell X amount of tix and X amount of merchandise. The venue matters much more to ownership than the morons who make up the management of the hockey team. As long as Val Camillo and Douchnozzle Scott can show a profit, nothing will change. Face it, this team has sucked for a decade and there is no end in sight.

 

[deadhead]

Let's rebuild! Gee, they're playing a bunch of inexperienced forwards in the top 9. They suck! Booooo!

I have no idea what people expected after JVR went down. Frost was going to turn into Barzal?

 

[VladDrag]

Yeah, I think there's a chemistry issue as well, if you have two talented players on a line, who have played together for a while, they can quickly integrate a third linemate, three playing together for an extended period and you have the "perfection line." Note how G and Couts could switch between Voracek and TK, two RWs with very different style of play, and not miss a beat,

Hayes - TK
Cates - MacEwen
Frost - Farabee (but Farabee is definitely "off" right now).

Not exactly ideal right now.

I would have to go back and read it but I’m pretty sure the analysis was done with forwards with a certain amount of time together - I wanna say 100 min together (on mobile today don’t feel like checking). So these lines are players who spend a fair amount of time together, 20-30 games per season or so. So take that into account as well.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Let's rebuild! Gee, they're playing a bunch of inexperienced forwards in the top 9. They suck! Booooo!

I have no idea what people expected after JVR went down. Frost was going to turn into Barzal?

You know that thing I just posted in the other thread about stances being constantly intentionally misrepresented. This is an example of that.

 

[freakydallas13]

Let's rebuild! Gee, they're playing a bunch of inexperienced forwards in the top 9. They suck! Booooo!

I have no idea what people expected after JVR went down. Frost was going to turn into Barzal?

Playing Seeler, Risto, Brown, MacEwan, ND, Bellows, and all the other trash on the roster over young prospects like Zamula, York, Allison, and TL isn't rebuilding.

Trading 3 picks for 2 years of TDA isn't rebuilding.

They aren't rebuilding. You can bet your ass that if by some miracle this team is in a playoff position by the deadline Chuck will trade futures for immediate roster help.

Stop saying they are rebuilding.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Playing Seeler, Risto, Brown, MacEwan, ND, Bellows, and all the other trash on the roster over young prospects like Zamula, York, Allison, and TL isn't rebuilding.

Trading 3 picks for 2 years of TDA isn't rebuilding.

They aren't rebuilding. You can bet your ass that if by some miracle this team is in a playoff position by the deadline Chuck will trade futures for immediate roster help.

Stop saying they are rebuilding.

Every core piece of this team, aside from Hart is locked in until the 2025-2026 season. 46 Million Dollars until the 2025-26 season.

I left Ellis off this list to be nice. Great rebuild. That's batshit hilarious

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Every core piece of this team, aside from Hart is locked in until the 2025-2026 season. 46 Million Dollars until the 2025-26 season.

I left Ellis off this list to be nice. Great rebuild. That's batshit hilarious

imagine IF this is Chuckles version of a rebuild..

Zing...hahaa

 

[FlyerNutter]

imagine IF this is Chuckles version of a rebuild..

Zing...hahaa

Team desperate to revive its pathetic bullies identity trades draft picks for multiple seasons for immediate help, re-signs every potential free agent, hires a win now coach.

Rebuilding. Let's see that continue when they have a sniff of cap space next off season. They will blow it the first chance they get on more mediocre overpays.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Let's rebuild! Gee, they're playing a bunch of inexperienced forwards in the top 9. They suck! Booooo!

I have no idea what people expected after JVR went down. Frost was going to turn into Barzal?

Strawman

 

[deadhead]

Playing Seeler, Risto, Brown, MacEwan, ND, Bellows, and all the other trash on the roster over young prospects like Zamula, York, Allison, and TL isn't rebuilding.

Trading 3 picks for 2 years of TDA isn't rebuilding.

They aren't rebuilding. You can bet your ass that if by some miracle this team is in a playoff position by the deadline Chuck will trade futures for immediate roster help.

Stop saying they are rebuilding.

Torts is stuck with Risto, the only rational strategy is to try to coach him up, otherwise you have to buy him out which would cost them for the rest of the decade. So far he's been solid paired with Seeler, we'll see.

Seeler is playing just fine and if he continues to do so is legitimate TDL trade bait (he's better than Hagg who garnered a 6th rd pick).
Braun is playing well and is TDL trade bait.
MacEwen is playing at a high level with Cates right now, is it sustainable? What does it cost to find out?

Bellows is 24 and a former 1st rd pick, taking a look at him is exactly what rebuilding teams do. Sometimes they need a change of scenery, sometimes they're waived b/c they just suck.

Allison was in the top 9 before he got injured. So much for being "blocked."

It's obvious they're rebuilding, if they weren't, they would have signed JG.
Now should they have started a year ago? Try 4 years ago after they melted down in 2018-19.

 

[FlyerNutter]

There is something that I've been thinking about more - and more.

To move Konecny. Signed at 5.5 for 2 more seasons after this one, ready to turn 26. We are currently in his prime years. Arguably the best contract on the current team.

Said team, is irrelevant for the next few years as is - and are we really going to pay a guy that will be approaching 30 for his past performance?

For a team that actually should rebuild properly, I'd sell high on TK this season, and its not because I dont like the player. Make the smart move here, and realize how far out you actually are. For one damn time.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Team desperate to revive its pathetic bullies identity trades draft picks for multiple seasons for immediate help, re-signs every potential free agent, hires a win now coach.

Rebuilding. Let's see that continue when they have a sniff of cap space next off season. They will blow it the first chance they get on more mediocre overpays.

inB4 trade Bedard for a collection of old washed Vets..

chuckles will think he made out like a bandit..

"i got 3 players for 1 rookie"... best GM ever.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

They don’t do anything above average except goaltending. Bill’s talking about the front door when the whole house is on fire.

 

[freakydallas13]

Torts is stuck with Risto, the only rational strategy is to try to coach him up, otherwise you have to buy him out which would cost them for the rest of the decade. So far he's been solid paired with Seeler, we'll see.

Seeler is playing just fine and if he continues to do so is legitimate TDL trade bait (he's better than Hagg who garnered a 6th rd pick).
Braun is playing well and is TDL trade bait.
MacEwen is playing at a high level with Cates right now, is it sustainable? What does it cost to find out?

Bellows is 24 and a former 1st rd pick, taking a look at him is exactly what rebuilding teams do. Sometimes they need a change of scenery, sometimes they're waived b/c they just suck.

Allison was in the top 9 before he got injured. So much for being "blocked."

It's obvious they're rebuilding, if they weren't, they would have signed JG.
Now should they have started a year ago? Try 4 years ago after they melted down in 2018-19.

They didn't sign JG because the team has no capspace, not because they are in a rebuild.

And again, rebuilding teams don't trade 3 picks for 2 years of TDA.

And again, a rebuilding team doesn't sign and play a bunch of veteran plugs to block their own prospects that desperately need NHL play time.

 

[deadhead]

They didn't sign JG because the team has no capspace, not because they are in a rebuild.

And again, rebuilding teams don't trade 3 picks for 2 years of TDA.

And again, a rebuilding team doesn't sign and play a bunch of veteran plugs to block their own prospects that desperately need NHL play time.

Rebuilding teams play a lot of veteran plugs, because the smart ones don't rush their prospects.

And prospects don't "desperately need NHL playing time," if it's not obvious they're NHL ready, the AHL is just fine for getting them more PT in higher leverage situations.

Being overmatched in the NHL is not conducive to player development.
It's a 4-5 year rebuild, prospects will have plenty of time to win jobs and move up in the lineup.

We're basically talking Laczynski, who was an offensive cipher, getting more offensive opportunities in LHV as he works his way back to 100%, Zamula who is practicing with the team and blocked by the Risto "experiment" (would you want Zamula paired with Risto?), York and Attard (who obviously needed time to work on his defensive fundamentals).

The others aren't NHL ready, Lycksell probably in a couple months as he adjusts to NA hockey, the 20 year olds will probably get cameos in the spring.

 

[freakydallas13]

Rebuilding teams play a lot of veteran plugs, because the smart ones don't rush their prospects.

And prospects don't "desperately need NHL playing time," if it's not obvious they're NHL ready, the AHL is just fine for getting them more PT in higher leverage situations.

Being overmatched in the NHL is not conducive to player development.
It's a 4-5 year rebuild, prospects will have plenty of time to win jobs and move up in the lineup.

We're basically talking Laczynski, who was an offensive cipher, getting more offensive opportunities in LHV as he works his way back to 100%, Zamula who is practicing with the team and blocked by the Risto "experiment" (would you want Zamula paired with Risto?), York and Attard (who obviously needed time to work on his defensive fundamentals).

The others aren't NHL ready, Lycksell probably in a couple months as he adjusts to NA hockey, the 20 year olds will probably get cameos in the spring.

Got it, zero use discussing this with you. Rebuilding teams keep their prospects that need NHL time in the AHL (while playing trash in the NHL) and trade picks for short term roster upgrades.

No point in arguing with someone when this is their definition of a rebuild.

 

[Rich Nixon]

I've long maintained that Frost was the next Barzal, but the presence of JVR was holding him back. Egg on my face with this one, guys.

So they're totally gonna claim Jost, right?

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Rebuilding teams play a lot of veteran plugs, because the smart ones don't rush their prospects.

And prospects don't "desperately need NHL playing time," if it's not obvious they're NHL ready, the AHL is just fine for getting them more PT in higher leverage situations.

Being overmatched in the NHL is not conducive to player development.
It's a 4-5 year rebuild, prospects will have plenty of time to win jobs and move up in the lineup.

We're basically talking Laczynski, who was an offensive cipher, getting more offensive opportunities in LHV as he works his way back to 100%, Zamula who is practicing with the team and blocked by the Risto "experiment" (would you want Zamula paired with Risto?), York and Attard (who obviously needed time to work on his defensive fundamentals).

The others aren't NHL ready, Lycksell probably in a couple months as he adjusts to NA hockey, the 20 year olds will probably get cameos in the spring.

I have news for you, the Flyers aren’t all of the sudden “the smart ones.”

They’re operating their team the same exact way they have for years so what they may be doing that’s viewed as correct it more then likely isn’t by choice.