2022/23 Roster Thread XII: The Twelfth Night, a comedy play

[deadhead]

Frost is the only NHL player in that entire bottom six

But it’s his fault he’s not producing, right?

Frost:
Laczynski 48 minutes, xGF/60: 1.09
MacEwen 43 minuts, xGF/60: 1.93
JVR 38 minutes, xGF/60: 1.34
Deslauriers 32 minutes, xGF/60: 1.26
Farabee 24 minutes, xGF/60: 2.89
Bellows 22 minutes, xGF/60: 1.88
Allison 21 minutes, xGF/60: 3.32

Cates:
Laughton 69 minutes, xGF/60: 1.79
MacEwen 68 minutes, xGF/60: 2.21
Allison 55 minutes, xGF/60: 1.96
Sedlak 41 minutes, xGF/60: 2.92
Tippett, 39 minutes, xGF/60: 1.31
Farabee 39 minutes, xGF/60: 1.85

Sedlak:
MacEwen 52 minutes, xGF/60: 3.00
Deslauriers 47 minutes, xGF/60: 3.78
Cates 41 minutes, xGF/60: 2.92
Allison 26 minutes, xGF/60: 3.24
Laczynski 23 minutes, xGF/60: 2.76

 

[FlyerNutter]

If Fletcher is a good GM, he should have zero problem being hired by another organization.

I’m sure if he was fired tomorrow, teams would be lining up for the worst GM in todays NHL.

 

[Beef Invictus]

 

[FlyerNutter]

I would say that's a secondary or even tertiary problem.

The single biggest problem, to me, is their inability to draft players that punch above their weight. Even one or two that significantly do so.

I can only find two examples since G was drafted in 2006: Carter Hart and Shayne Gostisbehere.

Konecny is probably a third one.

You're simply not going to win with that kind of drafting.

Isn’t it weird we never hear anything about that scouting department? I’ll be the first in line to say that not being able to draft high enough makes their job harder - but you’d think this team would have been able to find some more actual talent even without that over the years.

Even taking the development folks, AHL coaching out of it - this is a bottom 5 NHL scouting staff.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Giroux with the Flyers last year - 42 points in 57 games

Giroux since leaving the Flyers - 40 points in 33 games (18 games in FLA, 15 in OTT)

Fletchers roster and coaching sabotage has killed the offensive environment on this team. Skill is scarce, IQ is almost nonexistent, and puck possession is discouraged.

If it's even holding back someone as great as Giroux - who wasn't even stuck on the 4th line, with ECHLers, getting 10 min total per game - then of course it'll prevent Frost from scoring.

Anyone blaming Frost or expecting any scoring out of him, while he's on this horrible team and getting this horrible usage, is either 100% clueless or just lying to defend their hero coach and GM.

jesus we dodged a bullet there huh..

good thing we let him walk away..

hahahahahahah

 

[trostol]

 

[deadhead]

I don't think the amateur scouting group has done a bad job.

2020: Foerster (23), Andrae (54), Wisdom (94), Desnoyers (135)
2019: York (14), Brink (34), Attard (72)
2018: Farabee (14), JOB (19), GInning (50), Ersson (143)
2017: Patrick (2), Frost (27), Ratcliffe (35), Cates (137), Lycksell (168), Zamula (UDFA)
2016: Rubtsov (22), Laberge (36), Hart (48), Allison (52), Laczynski (169)
2015: Provorov (7), TK (24), Sandstrom (70), Fedotov (188)
2014: Sanheim (17), NAK (48), Lindblom (138)

You want to avoid misses in the top 50 (especially the first rd) but any player found after 100 is a huge hit.
There are a bunch of players listed here who may arrive in the next couple seasons.
Patrick was the killer, if they don't win the lottery, probably end up with Suzuki instead.

 

[flyersnorth]

Isn’t it weird we never hear anything about that scouting department? I’ll be the first in line to say that not being able to draft high enough makes their job harder - but you’d think this team would have been able to find some more actual talent even without that over the years.

Even taking the development folks, AHL coaching out of it - this is a bottom 5 NHL scouting staff.

It's true that they don't get to draft high often enough, which makes finding a player that really pops all the more crucial.

We're caught in a special kind of hockey hell!

Even the 1st and 2nd rounders haven't been all that impressive. They've either met expectations or underperformed. How many from this list have significantly out performed their draft position since G?

2007: (2), JVR, (41), Kevin Marshall
2008: (18), Sbisa
2009: -
2010: -
2011: (8), Couturier
2012: (20), Laughton, (45), Stolarz
2013: (11), Morin, (41), Hagg
2014: (17), Sanheim, (48), NAK
2015: (7), Provorov, (24), Konecny
2016: (22), Rubtsov, (36), Laberge, (48), Hart, (52), Allison
2017: (2), Patrick, (27), Frost, (35), Ratcliffe
2018: (14), Farabee, (19), O'Brien, (50), Ginning
2019: (14), York, (34), Brink

No one after 2019 has played an NHL game yet.

 

[FlyerNutter]

It's true that they don't get to draft high often enough, which makes finding a player that really pops all the more crucial.

We're caught in a special kind of hockey hell!

Even the 1st and 2nd rounders haven't been all that impressive. They've either met expectations or underperformed. How many from this list have significantly out performed their draft position since G?

2007: (2), JVR, (41), Kevin Marshall
2008: (18), Sbisa
2009: -
2010: -
2011: (8), Couturier
2012: (20), Laughton, (45), Stolarz
2013: (11), Morin, (41), Hagg
2014: (17), Sanheim, (48), NAK
2015: (7), Provorov, (24), Konecny
2016: (22), Rubtsov, (36), Laberge, (48), Hart, (52), Allison
2017: (2), Patrick, (27), Frost, (35), Ratcliffe
2018: (14), Farabee, (19), O'Brien, (50), Ginning
2019: (14), York, (34), Brink

No one after 2019 has played an NHL game yet.

The NHL constantly finds ways to infuse exciting/dynamic talent into the league. The vast majority of it through higher picks, but not all.

Since Claude Giroux was drafted in ‘06 I believe, the Flyers haven’t introduced anyone worth a damn into the NHL other than Couturier, Ghost or Konecny. It’s not really shocking the team is where it sits, because the core of this team is woefully lacking.

The drafting is piss poor, but the same men get brought back every year. It’s ironically an area the Flyers could do much better with, to leverage their financial power compared to other teams in the league.

It would be nice to hear someone with an actual voice address it more, but alas.

 

[BiggE]

Meanwhile we pile Deslauriers into the roster.

And Bellows
And Mac
And Sedlak
And Fisto
And Seeler
And now Wilman

It’s a diarrhea landslide of epic proportions. At least we have world class talent like 1C Aardvark Hayes and the top pair dynamic duo of Provy and TDA to carry us to the great heights of utter mediocrity

 

[Curufinwe]

Frost:
Laczynski 48 minutes, xGF/60: 1.09
MacEwen 43 minuts, xGF/60: 1.93
JVR 38 minutes, xGF/60: 1.34
Deslauriers 32 minutes, xGF/60: 1.26
Farabee 24 minutes, xGF/60: 2.89
Bellows 22 minutes, xGF/60: 1.88
Allison 21 minutes, xGF/60: 3.32

Cates:
Laughton 69 minutes, xGF/60: 1.79
MacEwen 68 minutes, xGF/60: 2.21
Allison 55 minutes, xGF/60: 1.96
Sedlak 41 minutes, xGF/60: 2.92
Tippett, 39 minutes, xGF/60: 1.31
Farabee 39 minutes, xGF/60: 1.85

Sedlak:
MacEwen 52 minutes, xGF/60: 3.00
Deslauriers 47 minutes, xGF/60: 3.78
Cates 41 minutes, xGF/60: 2.92
Allison 26 minutes, xGF/60: 3.24
Laczynski 23 minutes, xGF/60: 2.76

You must be retired and also unable to sleep to have this much time on your hands.

 

[deadhead]

You must be retired and also unable to sleep to have this much time on your hands.

Doesn't take much time. Doing homework is something beat into me as a consultant and lawyer.
I'm retired from "real work," full-time caretaker and part-time author.

 

[flyersnorth]

The NHL constantly finds ways to infuse exciting/dynamic talent into the league. The vast majority of it through higher picks, but not all.

Since Claude Giroux was drafted in ‘06 I believe, the Flyers haven’t introduced anyone worth a damn into the NHL other than Couturier, Ghost or Konecny. It’s not really shocking the team is where it sits, because the core of this team is woefully lacking.

The drafting is piss poor, but the same men get brought back every year. It’s ironically an area the Flyers could do much better with, to leverage their financial power compared to other teams in the league.

It would be nice to hear someone with an actual voice address it more, but alas.

The frustration as Flyers fans is that we are legitimately years away from having that kind of talent on the team.

So drafting something like 12th this year hurts a lot more than it helps.

We are the biggest bunch of masochists around, hands down.

 

[freakydallas13]

jesus we dodged a bullet there huh..

good thing we let him walk away..

hahahahahahah

Charles apologists who think rebuilding is embarassing and the best team should always be iced sure change their tune when it comes to retaining their former captain and best player.

 

[FlyerNutter]

The frustration as Flyers fans is that we are legitimately years away from having that kind of talent on the team.

So drafting something like 12th this year hurts a lot more than it helps.

We are the biggest bunch of masochists around, hands down.

The biggest failure this season will be drafting outside of the top 5. They were perfectly primed to do it, before this off season began.

I hope come draft day, those meaningless wins make people happy - because it’s directly hurting the team’s future.

This model of winning by overwhelming depth, and effort is nothing but bullshit. It hasn’t work, and it’s not going to work. The vision itself of how to build a quality team is flawed.

The interesting thing to me will be whether Fletcher keeps his GM job. I’m sure he stays on as president but if they can fool Scott into the notion that the “process” being improved, that the fans are excited by a return to Flyers hockey… Fletcher might just stay on as GM also.

Curious what happens. I tried to give Torts a chance because he did say some things in the summer that made me pleased, but he’s quickly shown who he truly is.

We need Camillo to fully take over, because the return to the Flyer way of doing things, was incredibly apparent this summer - and it’s a huge mistake. I get more excited about bigger philosophical views the team has, over the daily lineup decisions, etc. The old guard is very much in power currently.

 

[flyersnorth]

The biggest failure this season will be drafting outside of the top 5. They were perfectly primed to do it, before this off season began.

I hope come draft day, those meaningless wins make people happy - because it’s directly hurting the team’s future.

I've actually enjoyed the games so far this year - something about a scrappy underdog with zero expectations is kinda refreshing. Love watching the young guys develop and find success.

But I'm fully aware that a middling record does nothing to help the future of the team. In fact, it just perpetuates mediocrity.

This model of winning by overwhelming depth, and effort is nothing but bullshit. It hasn’t work, and it’s not going to work. The vision itself of how to build a quality team is flawed.

Yup, I think this sums it up nicely. They just don't have the right mindset.

Drafting Kevin Marshall, Goulbourne, and those kinds of low-ceiling players instead of targeting riskier but more skill-based players.

Passing twice on Caufield, who appears to be a star in the making, for York and Brink.

Signing and playing FOUR enforcer types to play regular minutes in the NHL in the year 2022.

Signing good, but not great, players to 7 and 8 year contracts.

Doubling down on mistakes.

There's no shortage of head-scratching and rage-inducing moves.

The interesting thing to me will be whether Fletcher keeps his GM job. I’m sure he stays on as president but if they can fool Scott into the notion that the “process” being improved, that the fans are excited by a return to Flyers hockey… Fletcher might just stay on as GM also.

Curious what happens.

I think you're right... it's hard to imagine a scenario where he's fired. If they finish bottom 5, they have a real chance at Bedard/Michkov/Fantilli.

If they make the playoffs or are on the bubble, that would be seen as a huge success.

So... maybe the 20th-26th range gets him fired?

Who knows with these guys anymore.

 

[Rebels57]

The frustration as Flyers fans is that we are legitimately years away from having that kind of talent on the team.

So drafting something like 12th this year hurts a lot more than it helps.

We are the biggest bunch of masochists around, hands down.

This Flyers team is f***ing atrocious. There is no risk of them drafting as late as 12. They should be no worse than in the 3-7 range. The bottom is going to fall out in a big way.

 

[flyerslducks]

The biggest failure this season will be drafting outside of the top 5. They were perfectly primed to do it, before this off season began.

I hope come draft day, those meaningless wins make people happy - because it’s directly hurting the team’s future.

Still plenty of time. Just need a few long losing streaks and we will be stapled at the bottom.

Blues are coming out of the bottom 5 slowly.

Cbj, Ottawa, and Vancouver—if these teams can become mediocre it would help. They definitely have the talent to do better than us. I think these teams will be in the bottom 5: Arizona, Philly, Chicago will soon join Anaheim/sj

 

[deadhead]

They're not very good but the bottom won't fall out either.

Top teams only have a couple elite players, what makes them top teams is having a half dozen or so good players, so they can field two top lines instead of one top line and 2 3rd lines (Edmonton most years), and roll 4 solid D-men for 20+ minutes.

So no problem with the Farabees, TKs, Sanheims on long-term deals - what they need is the 1C who pushes Hayes down and eventually a 2C to supplant him, the 1 D who either pairs with Provorov or makes him expendable in a trade.

A little luck helps, land one of these guys later in the draft and rebuilding becomes much easier - conversely, if you have to draft in the top 5, you need to really suck for an extended period and not end up with the Patricks and Kakkos instead of a top player.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The good teams also don't annually stuff their rosters with waiver fodder and Yandles.

 

[landsbergfan]

 

[Magua]

November 2020-21: They're not very good but the bottom won't fall out either

November 2021-22: They're not very good but the bottom won't fall out either

November 2022-23: They're not very good but the bottom won't fall out either

 

[Flyerfan4life]

The biggest failure this season will be drafting outside of the top 5. They were perfectly primed to do it, before this off season began.

I hope come draft day, those meaningless wins make people happy - because it’s directly hurting the team’s future.

This model of winning by overwhelming depth, and effort is nothing but bullshit. It hasn’t work, and it’s not going to work. The vision itself of how to build a quality team is flawed.

The interesting thing to me will be whether Fletcher keeps his GM job. I’m sure he stays on as president but if they can fool Scott into the notion that the “process” being improved, that the fans are excited by a return to Flyers hockey… Fletcher might just stay on as GM also.

Curious what happens. I tried to give Torts a chance because he did say some things in the summer that made me pleased, but he’s quickly shown who he truly is.

We need Camillo to fully take over, because the return to the Flyer way of doing things, was incredibly apparent this summer - and it’s a huge mistake. I get more excited about bigger philosophical views the team has, over the daily lineup decisions, etc. The old guard is very much in power currently.

100% accuracy here ^^^

 

[deadhead]

The good teams also don't annually stuff their rosters with waiver fodder and Yandles.

Actually they do, you just don't notice because the top players play most of the minutes.
Pat Maroon anyone? On an average team he'd be exposed.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Actually they do, you just don't notice because the top players play most of the minutes.
Pat Maroon anyone? On an average team he'd be exposed.

Pat Maroon is massively better than Yandle or Thompson or Deslauriers. What are you talking about? There isn't a comparison there.

Who was the Yandle for TB? For Colorado? Who were their league-bottom players?