2022/23 Roster Thread XII: The Twelfth Night, a comedy play

[Beef Invictus]

If all this stuff didn't matter then the team wouldn't be in such a horrible position

 

[Flyerfan4life]

So you're not going to spare me the "it doesn't matter" crap, thanks.

Every turd that Fletcher has produced has created this mountain of shit. It's the process that is the issue and not the specific instances but this has been explained countless times.

It's unavoidable for anyone that doesn't live in fantasy land.

imagine standing atop a mountain of shit and yelling that 1 individual turd is a nothing burger not a problem..

lol...

 

[deadhead]

Minor moves are just that, people here like to whine about everything.
I was told we lost a 3rd line player when we waived NAK. Whatever.
Nor do these moves signify anything, every team makes them, Hextall just waived Friedman.

The big problem with Fletcher is the same with Hextall, the Flyers simply don't add value on the margin, that is, find hidden gems on the waiver wire or in trades. And that's probably a pro scouting issue as much as a GM issue - they can't identify "steals." This has been going on for a decade now.

 

[DancingPanther]

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Minor moves are just that, people here like to whine about everything.
I was told we lost a 3rd line player when we waived NAK. Whatever.
Nor do these moves signify anything, every team makes them, Hextall just waived Friedman.

The big problem with Fletcher is the same with Hextall, the Flyers simply don't add value on the margin, that is, find hidden gems on the waiver wire or in trades. And that's probably a pro scouting issue as much as a GM issue - they can't identify "steals." This has been going on for a decade now.

Is this real life?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Minor moves are just that, people here like to whine about everything.
I was told we lost a 3rd line player when we waived NAK. Whatever.
Nor do these moves signify anything, every team makes them, Hextall just waived Friedman.

The big problem with Fletcher is the same with Hextall, the Flyers simply don't add value on the margin, that is, find hidden gems on the waiver wire or in trades. And that's probably a pro scouting issue as much as a GM issue - they can't identify "steals." This has been going on for a decade now.

I like how this post contradicts itself

 

[Beef Invictus]

Is this real life?

Losing in the margins doesn't matter, stop complaining about it. Now, the problem with Fletcher is he always loses in the margins.

 

[deadhead]

Finding hidden gems is different than bottom of the roster machinations.

You're always making moves at the bottom due to injury, players declining to sub-replacement level, etc.
But whether it's Thompson or Bunnaman, we're talking marginal players who are basically warm bodies.

Finding hidden gems is more a matter of keeping tabs on hundreds of players and identifying the ones that might blossom with a change of scenery or in your schemes. Waiver wire claims, low cost trades (picks after the 3rd rd are essentially "spare change"), etc.

Now most players who hit the waiver wire are thee for a reason (Bellows), but at times a team lets a player go they should have been more patient with (Valimaki). You're probably going to miss more than you hit, but if you have good scouts, your hit rate might be 25%, bad scouts 5-10%.

 

[FatTugboatFlahr]

I personally couldn’t be more excited for Artem to get into the lineup.

He’s exactly what this team needs to deliver us a top pick.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Finding hidden gems is different than bottom of the roster machinations.

You're always making moves at the bottom due to injury, players declining to sub-replacement level, etc.
But whether it's Thompson or Bunnaman, we're talking marginal players who are basically warm bodies.

Finding hidden gems is more a matter of keeping tabs on hundreds of players and identifying the ones that might blossom with a change of scenery or in your schemes. Waiver wire claims, low cost trades (picks after the 3rd rd are essentially "spare change"), etc.

Now most players who hit the waiver wire are thee for a reason (Bellows), but at times a team lets a player go they should have been more patient with (Valimaki). You're probably going to miss more than you hit, but if you have good scouts, your hit rate might be 25%, bad scouts 5-10%.

They are one and the same.

They don't have to be Thompsons or Bunnamans. That's the whole point we are making. Choosing to rely on those bottoms is losing in the margins. Every year, good players (or at minimum, upgrades) are out there and every year Fletcher gets none of them. The bottom of the roster is where those marginal wins manifest the most.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Oh Sam, bless your heart.

What were the scoring chances in those games Sam?

 

[freakydallas13]

"Be thankful Chuck didn't trade away 3-4 first round picks. He only traded away one first round pick and 3-4 second round picks."

 

[deadhead]

They are one and the same.

They don't have to be Thompsons or Bunnamans. That's the whole point we are making. Having to rely on those bottoms is losing in the margins. Every year, good players are out there and every year Fletcher gets none of them. The bottom of the roster is where those marginal wins manifest the most.

Well, Sakic let Sedlak walk, and we got him, so far he's playing far better than anyone on the Colorado 4th line (Kaut, Hunt, Megna, heck, he's outplaying Newhook).
But at 29, he's not a player you build around, just a short-term fill-in who may be dealt at the TDL.

But better scrubs are still scrubs, not "hidden gems" that provide real value.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Well, Sakic let Sedlak walk, and we got him, so far he's playing far better than anyone on the Colorado 4th line (Kaut, Hunt, Megna, heck, he's outplaying Newhook).
But at 29, he's not a player you build around, just a short-term fill-in who may be dealt at the TDL.

But better scrubs are still scrubs, not "hidden gems" that provide real value.

But everything matters. Upgrade your scrubs with better scrubs, and guess what? The team actually gets a lot better. It all adds up. Go with the worst options at all turns, and the team gets a lot worse, as we have witnessed annually.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Travis Yost: Who is driving the increase in NHL scoring? | TSN

It’s not just the elite snipers who are benefiting from higher-scoring environments, Travis Yost writes. Every type of forward, irrespective of usage, has seen a marked increase in their ability to find the net.

www.tsn.ca

 

[Beef Invictus]

Meanwhile we pile Deslauriers into the roster.

 

[flyersnorth]

The big problem with Fletcher is the same with Hextall, the Flyers simply don't add value on the margin,

I would say that's a secondary or even tertiary problem.

The single biggest problem, to me, is their inability to draft players that punch above their weight. Even one or two that significantly do so.

I can only find two examples since G was drafted in 2006: Carter Hart and Shayne Gostisbehere.

Konecny is probably a third one.

You're simply not going to win with that kind of drafting.

 

[deadhead]

But everything matters. Upgrade your scrubs with better scrubs, and guess what? The team actually gets a little better. It all adds up. Go with the worst options at all turns, and the team gets a lot worse, as we have witnessed annually.

Scrubs is scrubs. Replacing Thompson/Bunnaman with Sedlak makes the team a little better, not a lot better.
Which is why I don't lose sleep over scrubs.

What would make this team a lot better is a healthy Couts, or Gauthier becoming the real thing at center.
That pushes Hayes down to 2C, Cates to LW, strengthening 3 spots in the lineup with one move.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Travis Yost: Who is driving the increase in NHL scoring? | TSN

It’s not just the elite snipers who are benefiting from higher-scoring environments, Travis Yost writes. Every type of forward, irrespective of usage, has seen a marked increase in their ability to find the net.

www.tsn.ca

now do increase in face punchers..

oh wait..

 

[Cody Webster]

 

[Beef Invictus]

Scrubs is scrubs. Replacing Thompson/Bunnaman with Sedlak makes the team a little better, not a lot better.
Which is why I don't lose sleep over scrubs.

What would make this team a lot better is a healthy Couts, or Gauthier becoming the real thing at center.
That pushes Hayes down to 2C, Cates to LW, strengthening 3 spots in the lineup with one move.

Uh no, it is a pretty big upgrade. Having 4 functional lines instead of 3 or 2 because you didn't weigh each line down with a Thompson or a Deslauriers is massive. Especially because it takes pressure off the other lines to do everything themselves. That's how you end up with faceoffs happening more in the NZ or OZ instead of your own end because half the roster gets trapped due to the anchors. It makes life easier all around. It makes the team more productive. It makes it harder to score on them. It's not some small thing that can be scoffed at. It matters a ton, and the last time this team was truly good it was a thing that they did instead of doubling down on all the worst players they can find because they think sucking is "trying hard" and a "good attitude."

Improve the bottom of the roster and it trickles up.

 

[Striiker]

Frost is the only NHL player in that entire bottom six

But it’s his fault he’s not producing, right?

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Frost is the only NHL player in that entire bottom six

But it’s his fault he’s not producing, right?

we need the good ol guy getting shot then blamed for not producing picture again it seems..

funny how all the old memes still apply over a decade later..

actually its f***ing sad tbh.

 

[deadhead]

Travis Yost: Who is driving the increase in NHL scoring? | TSN

It’s not just the elite snipers who are benefiting from higher-scoring environments, Travis Yost writes. Every type of forward, irrespective of usage, has seen a marked increase in their ability to find the net.

www.tsn.ca

The two big changes were in goalie equipment, 2005 and then again in 2019.
And the recent increase in scoring (note an increase after the first change, then goalies adjusted) reflects those changes.

But changing goalie equipment also favors more athletic, quicker goalies (less weight) so "evolution" shifts to goalies better suited to the modifications in equipment over time.

Given that athletes are selected from the tail end of the distribution, and that the game has been international for decades, I'm not sure the supply of talent is that much better - but the rule changes (actually enforcement changes) put more of a premium on speed and less on size.

One way to check whether it's speed or skill would be Sh%, if they're more skillful, Sh% of bottom six players should be closer to top 6 players, but if it's due to creating more chances due to more effective forechecking with faster players, then you'd expect more scoring chances per minute but the Sh% gap would remain.

 

[Striiker]

Giroux with the Flyers last year - 42 points in 57 games

Giroux since leaving the Flyers - 40 points in 33 games (18 games in FLA, 15 in OTT)

Fletchers roster and coaching sabotage has killed the offensive environment on this team. Skill is scarce, IQ is almost nonexistent, and puck possession is discouraged.

If it's even holding back someone as great as Giroux - who wasn't even stuck on the 4th line, with ECHLers, getting 10 min total per game - then of course it'll prevent Frost from scoring.

Anyone blaming Frost or expecting any scoring out of him, while he's on this horrible team and getting this horrible usage, is either 100% clueless or just lying to defend their hero coach and GM.