2022/23 Roster Thread XI: Konecny, So Hot Right Now, Konecny

[Beef Invictus]

Remind me, has TDA ever been benched for any of his defensive gaffes?

 

[usahockey22flyers]

Remind me, has TDA ever been benched for any of his defensive gaffes?

Which there has been a lot!

 

[Curufinwe]

Noah Cates getting lauded for his defense while he's got the worst CF% of any regular is interesting.

Is Cates' defense going to get less praise when Hart SV% inevitably drops below 94%?

 

[deadhead]

I don't take their record seriously, but I don't take them getting out shot seriously, either.

Right now, there is no cohesion, the lines are jumbled, the D-pairs have been jumbled, they're still figuring out what they're supposed to do in Torts's scheme.

They are playing harder - watch the back check, better than I've seen in a decade, they're busting butt to get back, and that has broke up a lot of second chances. No more forwards acting as spectators watching a 2 on 1 develop in front of them and showing up after the play is over. The forecheck is more aggressive, but they're still losing too many possession battles in the D-zone.

They struggle trying to make plays on offense and exiting the D-zone, and a lot of that is a lack of feel where their teammates are supposed to be and players thinking too much instead of making decisive moves.

Me, I'll refrain from conclusions until January, if they still look this bad, they need to waive most of the team.
My suspicion is they'll gradually improve as they play together, and even more if they get a couple talented players back.
Not that they'll be a playoff caliber team come spring, but we won't see as many stretches where they just look overmatched.

But the early schedule is doing them no favors, TB, FLA, Nash on the road, FLA, CAR then NYR & TOR on the road.
After that it gets easier.

 

[Fight4yourRight]

I don't take their record seriously, but I don't take them getting out shot seriously, either.

Right now, there is no cohesion, the lines are jumbled, the D-pairs have been jumbled, they're still figuring out what they're supposed to do in Torts's scheme.

They are playing harder - watch the back check, better than I've seen in a decade, they're busting butt to get back, and that has broke up a lot of second chances. No more forwards acting as spectators watching a 2 on 1 develop in front of them and showing up after the play is over. The forecheck is more aggressive, but they're still losing too many possession battles in the D-zone.

They struggle trying to make plays on offense and exiting the D-zone, and a lot of that is a lack of feel where their teammates are supposed to be and players thinking too much instead of making decisive moves.

Me, I'll refrain from conclusions until January, if they still look this bad, they need to waive most of the team.
My suspicion is they'll gradually improve as they play together, and even more if they get a couple talented players back.
Not that they'll be a playoff caliber team come spring, but we won't see as many stretches where they just look overmatched.

But the early schedule is doing them no favors, TB, FLA, Nash on the road, FLA, CAR then NYR & TOR on the road.
After that it gets easier.

I’ll be sure to remind you of this one.

 

[deadhead]

I’ll be sure to remind you of this one.

I'm sure you will, unless I turn out be right, in which case there will be the usual radio silence.

 

[deadhead]

He does this every game. He just wanders without a care, as his partner or a forward must cover the middle. He always grades as one of the worst defensive players for a reason. And no, despite Authentic narratives that he’s better than advertised there, he is in fact not.

Except he's +2, which wouldn't be meaningful except for the fact he's done this his entire career, outplay his metrics.

Metrics are predictive, +/- is what actually happened, when you consistently get better results than predicted, the model obviously is biased when it comes to that player.

There's a few other players like that, Patrick Kane, for example. But only a few.

 

[Nizzle]

I'm sure you will, unless I turn out be right, in which case there will be the usual radio silence.

When have you ever been right?

 

[Magua]

Except he's +2, which wouldn't be meaningful except for the fact he's done this his entire career, outplay his metrics.

Metrics are predictive, +/- is what actually happened, when you consistently get better results than predicted, the model obviously is biased when it comes to that player.

You know that line between real discussion and shoveling stuff that I don't even believe you believe?

DeAngelo was a career -20 (not that I'm one to bring that up) before last season, stapled to the Canes best players (a team with a near 60% GF%; I'd say I'm slurring +/- and GF% together, but you first). So, no actually, he has not outplayed his metrics over his entire career. It's one special case season. Oh, and forgive me, 7 games this year where he's a whopping +2 because Carter Hart is going PDO inflating supernova.

DeAngelo is supremely skilled offensively, and he can be a net positive through that. But there is no way an honest person can watch him haphazardly chase around and say his near league bottom defensive metrics don't accurately portray the player. Do some players outperform the defensive models consistently? Yes. Is there something to changing the exact flavor of a scoring chance? Yes. But you need to pick a better example than Tony DeAngelo.

 

[deadhead]

Three full seasons of TDA:
2018-19: xGF% 48.05% GF% 54.35%
2019-20: xGF% 47.63% GF% 57.14%
2021-22: xGF% 55.42% GF% 66.33%
2022-23: xGF% 38.20% GF% 58.33%

If he's just lucky, that's awfully consistent luck, maybe he's got telekinetic powers?

 

[Magua]

Yeah, I'm all set.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Three full seasons of TDA:
2018-19: xGF% 48.05% GF% 54.35%
2019-20: xGF% 47.63% GF% 57.14%
2021-22: xGF% 55.42% GF% 66.33%
2022-23: xGF% 38.20% GF% 58.33%

If he's just lucky, that's awfully consistent luck, maybe he's got telekinetic powers?

 

[Curufinwe]

Three full seasons of TDA:
2018-19: xGF% 48.05% GF% 54.35%
2019-20: xGF% 47.63% GF% 57.14%
2021-22: xGF% 55.42% GF% 66.33%
2022-23: xGF% 38.20% GF% 58.33%

If he's just lucky, that's awfully consistent luck, maybe he's got telekinetic powers?

Can you ever have an original thought, or does it always have to be about finding some way to defend whatever thing Flyers management did recently?

If DeAngleo was still on another team you would have the opposite opinion about him, or no opinion at all.

 

[deadhead]

Can you ever have an original thought, or does it always have to be about finding some way to defend whatever thing Flyers management did recently?

If DeAngleo was still on another team you would have the opposite opinion about him, or no opinion at all.

I simply posted some interesting stats, note I also pointed out that Patrick Kane also seems to be one of those players who outperforms his metrics. People here are so committed to negativity that everything must be seen in that light.

Sorry for trying to be objective, I guess I need to go to re-education camp.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I am completely certain that gap can be explained by examining transition.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

“Right now, there is no cohesion, the lines are jumbled, the D-pairs have been jumbled, they're still figuring out what they're supposed to do in Torts's scheme.”

But hey, the preseason is the end all be all when it comes to determining who does and doesn’t make the roster. York was “awful” and didn’t deserve to make the team but I’m sure as shit going to use this contradicting excuse as a way to defend this dog shit franchise.

 

[landsbergfan]

Zamula coming out on defense? Shocked. Shocked, I tell you.

 

[Beef Invictus]

“Right now, there is no cohesion, the lines are jumbled, the D-pairs have been jumbled, they're still figuring out what they're supposed to do in Torts's scheme.”

But hey, the preseason is the end all be all when it comes to determining who does and doesn’t make the roster. York was “awful” and didn’t deserve to make the team but I’m sure as shit going to use this contradicting excuse as a way to defend this dog shit franchise.

The current chaos also debunks the theory that it would have been nonsensical to work on systems during preseason.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Zamula coming out on defense? Shocked. Shocked, I tell you.

I was told this could never happen because Tortorella wants to use this year to assess the youth.

 

[Tripod]

“Right now, there is no cohesion, the lines are jumbled, the D-pairs have been jumbled, they're still figuring out what they're supposed to do in Torts's scheme.”

But hey, the preseason is the end all be all when it comes to determining who does and doesn’t make the roster. York was “awful” and didn’t deserve to make the team but I’m sure as shit going to use this contradicting excuse as a way to defend this dog shit franchise.

Hey, he is just trying to be objective.

 

[Tripod]

Wait, why is taking so long to learn Torts system?

"I don’t think the game is that difficult. … It’s such a reactionary game, and I think the most important thing is to get out of their way half the time as a coach.”

I think people make a big deal out of different systems,” Tortorella said after a practice session Thursday in Voorhees. “There may be slight details (that are different). You may have different philosophies, a man-on-man defense versus a zone defense. But it isn’t a huge change.”

-3 weeks ago

 

[FlyerNutter]

The kids will play

 

[VladDrag]

Except he's +2, which wouldn't be meaningful except for the fact he's done this his entire career, outplay his metrics.

Metrics are predictive, +/- is what actually happened, when you consistently get better results than predicted, the model obviously is biased when it comes to that player.

There's a few other players like that, Patrick Kane, for example. But only a few.

I am not going to get into this too much, just want to point out that metrics can be predictive or descriptive. xGF is a descriptive. You shouldn’t be using xGF only as a prediction metric.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

i love this gif... its so perfect for use here

 

[flyersnorth]

FWIW, Torts had some choice quotes at the STH event. Transcript credits to Locked on Flyers



This is one of three long answers. Don't want to blow up the thread with a thesis - the other two are in the YT link comments.
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I had a conversation today, I won’t say with who as far as the management part of it. I’m not sure about Coots, I’m not sure if he’s coming back, I’m not sure about Cam, I’m not sure if he’s coming back. Ryan it’s very doubtful, Ryan Ellis very doubtful. Now we lose James, he’s probably out, I would say, he gets operated on Friday, he’s probably 4-6 weeks.​

What I don’t want to happen here, and some of you may agree or disagree, no disrespect I really don’t care if you agree or disagree with me. I think we have to not plug up those holes by going on the waiver wire and picking out someone else’s garbage that they’re letting go. I’d rather develop the kids and let the kids keep on playing here. And maybe there are other kids that shouldn’t be here at this point in time, and continue that process to see who we have. And then we can start weeding people out. I​

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I don’t think it’s about bringing in crusty veterans that were really good a while back and are towards the end of their careers that really no one wants and have us bring them here. I just don’t think that’s the proper way. ​

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And does it kind of blow you out of the water, well aren’t you going for the playoffs? I’m not going for nothing. I’m going for each and every day for the rest of the year being the best we can be. And you have to build this team with a foundation that can be successful with youth first, and then you bring in those solid free agents. I may not even be here, how long it takes. I don’t know, but that’s the way you have to do it.​

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