Speculation: 2022-23 Roster Thread Part II

[MMC]

 

[FiveHoleTickler]

I know people weren't happy with the trade deadline last year, or this past offseason, but to me the worst thing to really happen to our franchise was that Bob was kept on after the 2020-21 season, and apparently had enough job security to feel comfortable with doing nothing after finishing 2nd last in the league, with Lindholm, Manson, and Rakell entering their walk years. That level of neglect for the franchise is just inexcusable, both from ownership and the front office. Bob should have been fired after that season, and then Verbeek (or whoever) would have a whole offseason to evaluate the roster and make decisions on Lindholm, Manson, and Rakell, instead of having less than 2 months to figure it out. If they insisted on keeping Bob, he should've been able to realize the team as it stood was f***ing terrible and he needed to make some big moves to swing the roster one way or another, but we just flat out neglected the organization for a year, which is pretty f***ing sad, and why more than anything I'm just glad Bob isn't around anymore.

I lamented it at the time and feel that history justified my feeling - he shouldn't have been extended in 2018.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Just about everything we do on this site is pure speculation... what we know is that our D is a mess and a disgrace for an NHL team. I see it as one of 3 options. He had a bad plan, no plan, or was unable to execute his plan. All 3 are failures on PV. Failures generated because of his decision to move on from both Manson and Lindolm, as justified as they may have been. Roster flexibility is great but if he is unable to execute it it's worthless. We had that flexibility last summer too and he failed to utilize it. I fail to see how being flexible is a plan.

I think his plan was to try for a generational/franchise pick in this draft, while seeing which players not named Terry, Zegras, Drysdale, or McTavish showed him if they would be contributors, passengers, or assets to be swapped out. Winning is not a goal this year.

Verbeek basically gave away all this information for free in that interview near the end of the season last year. Only a few players names as core, he likes to overbake players in juniors/AHL (so it will not be a surprise to me if we don’t see much of Zellweger or Mintyukov next season), and he’s wanting each cohort of players to teach the next cohort how to play hard/fast/tough in the NHL

He’s on record as wanting to slow build to sustained relevance in 3-5 years, not wanting to take shortcuts and be there in 1-2.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I agree with @Deuce22. You have to look at things from a long term perspective. There's plenty in the pipeline and Verbeek has plenty of assets to work with. He'll very likely have even more after this year's trade deadline. Couple those aspects with the flexibility of a good cap situation and you've got a lot of possibilities and opportunities for things to go well.

You mean "longer" term perspective. We have been rebuilding since the 2018-19 TDL.

Anaheim found it's top core pillars in Terry, Zegras, Drysdale, Lundy, and McTavish. The Ducks also had a top-5 farm team. We took on cap in a trade to land a late 2020 first round pick, showing we were back to being in a good cap situation. Last year was the final year of Kesler's $6.875 mil AAV contract. Murray was prepared to take on outside talent last off-season, but preferred another year of youth development and it paid off with Terry, Z, and Lundy breaking out offensively.

If the team kept Manson and Lindholm, then our top-4 would be set for the next four years. Let's look at the D in our system before Verbeek:

RD Andersson (2018 draft, Rd 2 via trade)​

LD/RD LaCombe (2019, Rd 2)​

LD Thrun (2019, Rd 4)​

RD Moore (2020, Rd 3)​

LD/RD Zellweger (2021, Rd 2)​

LD Hinds (2021, Rd 3)​

Anaheim has talent depth and draft capital if the bottom pairing slot only needs to be fulfilled.

Once a team is fielding a playoff roster, then there will always be cap concerns. Verbeek won't be absolved of that situation in the far future. But Verbeek intended for a far future because he "blew up the team" at the TDL.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I know people weren't happy with the trade deadline last year, or this past offseason, but to me the worst thing to really happen to our franchise was that Bob was kept on after the 2020-21 season, and apparently had enough job security to feel comfortable with doing nothing after finishing 2nd last in the league, with Lindholm, Manson, and Rakell entering their walk years. That level of neglect for the franchise is just inexcusable, both from ownership and the front office. Bob should have been fired after that season, and then Verbeek (or whoever) would have a whole offseason to evaluate the roster and make decisions on Lindholm, Manson, and Rakell, instead of having less than 2 months to figure it out. If they insisted on keeping Bob, he should've been able to realize the team as it stood was f***ing terrible and he needed to make some big moves to swing the roster one way or another, but we just flat out neglected the organization for a year, which is pretty f***ing sad, and why more than anything I'm just glad Bob isn't around anymore.

I suppose you're one of those fans who didn't believe the Ducks were in a rebuild mode since the 2018-19 TDL.

We went from 2nd worst record to end the 2020-21 season to the top of the Pacific to start the 2021-22 season without adding help. The team was healthy, the assistant coaches fixed the PP as well as improve the PK, and the youths took huge steps forward. Also, we added McTavish as consolation prize for finished with the 2nd worst record.

"It worked out", yet the team was on track to miss the playoffs for the 4th straight season?

Your premise is disingenuous. Murray resigned in early Nov. Verbeek "blew up the team" at the TDL to finish 10th. Verbeek continued his Verbeekening and we currently own the third worst record in the league. How does one reconcile being upset at Murray's rebuild and be content with Verbeek's rebuild? (That's rhetorical.)

If you're looking at making the playoffs just like the many on here thinking we're a playoff team to begin this season, then it didn't work out for you.

If you're looking at this from a rebuilding process, waiting an extra season allowed Terry, Z, and Lundy to shine was a success. We have stars in Terry and Z, to which we can feel solid to build around.

Back to Murray and the 2021-22 season. We sat atop the Pacific Divsion and Murray resigned in early Nov during the middle of the 8-game win streak. Verbeek was signed Feb 3. Over 2 months of nothing besides Elvenes to the AHL. Verbeek's first roster move was a waiver wire pick up of Sustr days before Manson would return to the line for 2 games and be traded.

Murray's a tinkerer and probably would have given the team a little nudge of help for the 2021-22 season, especially if he knew Manson would be out long term. I don't know if Murray would cash in during the 2021-22 season, but if he did, then it would a player(s) that would be more than a rental. Murray probably would have added extra outside help in the 22 offseason knowing the talents that became established.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I think his plan was to try for a generational/franchise pick in this draft, while seeing which players not named Terry, Zegras, Drysdale, or McTavish showed him if they would be contributors, passengers, or assets to be swapped out. Winning is not a goal this year.

Verbeek basically gave away all this information for free in that interview near the end of the season last year. Only a few players names as core, he likes to overbake players in juniors/AHL (so it will not be a surprise to me if we don’t see much of Zellweger or Mintyukov next season), and he’s wanting each cohort of players to teach the next cohort how to play hard/fast/tough in the NHL

He’s on record as wanting to slow build to sustained relevance in 3-5 years, not wanting to take shortcuts and be there in 1-2.

I know winning isn't Verbeek's goal, but in a later interview, Verbeek expected the team to be at .500. This expectation isn't consistent with landing a generational/franchise pick. It's actually kinda jarring he admitted it.

I'm okay with the long road back to relevancy since the TDL b/c #1D aren't often available and if they are, then they'll cost a significant portion of your present and near future, which runs contrary to a rebuild. I just find it comical how people are upset at Murray when Verbeek is running the rebuild back.

 

[Deuce22]

I don't think he should have resigned everyone but he decimated this D without good plan to fix it. Strome and Vats were lateral to the guys we lost and honestly signed for similar term. Change was needed, I'll admit that. But we'd be a lot closer to making the playoffs if we had kept one or both of the D men.

Yes, but I think if the goal was to make the playoffs he wouldn't have brought back Eakins. I think the FA signings were just to get to the cap floor, not as a sincere effort to make the playoffs.

 

[Deuce22]

We have no idea if it's a poor option. With this reset, I never came out and said it was a poor option, but it was an option that Verbeek wanted to go in and we'd have to wait three to five years to see if the gamble worked. With the reset, Verbeek's life with the cap is made easy, but the outcome remains unknown. You are selling "thinking past the sale" with "poor option" b/c you are either fitting a narrative or lacking creativity.

2020-21 Kings finished 6 points ahead of the Ducks at the bottom of the league, drafting 8th overall.
2021 off-season: Signed FA C Dadanov, D Edler, and traded for RW Arvidsson.
2021-22 Kings went to the playoffs.

2021-22 Kraken finished with the 3rd worst record last year.
2022 off-season: Signed FA F Burakowsky, D Schultz, backup G Martin, and traded for F Bjorkstrand.
2022-23 Kraken are currently in a playoff spot, 3rd in the Pacific with 3 games-in-hand with respect to VGK and 5 games-in-hand with respect to LAK.

2021-22 Devils finished with the 5th worst record last year.
2022 off-season: Signed D Brendan Smith and F Palat. Traded for G Vanecek, F Haula, and D Marino.
2022-23 Devils are currently in a playoff spot, 2nd in the Met.

I spy a pattern with all three rebuilding teams, they added talent outside the org en masse. Former GM Murray was open to the idea of acquiring more talent after the COVID season, but opted to let his youth continue to develop - which we all were disappointed in. Yet, it worked out because Terry and Z broke out offensively, Lundy has a goal scoring light go on, and Drysdale was able to last a whole season physically. With the youth breaking out early in the 2021-22 season, the next logical step would be to acquire talent outside the org to add needed talent depth.

Again, Verbeek never really entertained the option of taking the next step to be competitive when he took up shop. When Verbeek was hired on during all-star break, Verbeek never lifted a finger when Manson was put on IR during all-star break to help the team stay afloat. In late Oct 2019, D Manson fell to injury and put on crutches. Despite being a rebuild season, Murray traded for D Gudbranson to fill in Manson's skates a day or two later.

We can agree to disagree on the validity of Verbeek's plan. I think it is clear from his actions that he did not see adding talent to what was already here as the path he wanted to take. I agree with his assessment, you don't. What I don't understand is why (you and others) keep harping on the moves he made. He made those moves intentionally. He knew Ducks would be bad this year. He wants a top 3 draft pick. He knew he couldn't replace Lindholm and Manson and didn't try to.

 

[DavidBL]

This is an absurd take.

If you lose more games, you have a better opportunity to draft a good player. The more good players you draft, the better position you are to compete. There is tons of variance in terms of success, but it's without question a better philosophy than keeping the band together when they've played the tune of missing the playoffs for 4 straight seasons and would only get worse.

I didn't say keep the band together. I said keep some key player(s). My contention is that those specific players played a key role and there were not viable internal replacements nor would there be for at least 3 or more years. Then he didn't go outside the organization to fill those holes. In the next 3 years guys like Terry, Z, McTavish, and Drysdale are all going to be pretty much established if not sooner. Now we have holes that PV needs to fill as those players get older and more expensive. I agree the earlier you draft the chance of getting g a good player increases. My issue is that it's not a guarantee and people act like it is. I'd argue smart drafting is more important than being bad. Look at the best teams in the league. They don't have 6-7 guys that they drafted in the top ten. They maybe have 3 or 4. VP admitted he expected HIS team to be around 50% that's not a top 5 pick. We did not NEED to be bad this year.

This year's defense can only be considered a failure if you expected us to seriously compete this year. The group as a whole is terrible, but we're still going to be able to cash in with Klingberg and Kulikov at the deadline, and as early as next year a lot of young talent will be competing for spots. I think I've said this before but I think the lack of D talent coming through this year and the last couple (outside of Drysdale) can be attributed to our drafting from 2016-19. Mahura was the only defenseman we drafted in 2016, we drafted none in 2017, only Drew in 2018, (who has since moved to F), and our 2019 D are all still in college. So since 2016 (now 7 years ago), the only drafted D that have made it to the pro level for us are Mahura and Drysdale, which seems incredibly low, (though Benoit as a UDFA was a great find)

Seriously compete for what? The playoffs? The Cup? Say we had kept Lindholm as he's the obvious one. Does that fix this team. Absolutely not. Does it make it better than it is. Absolutely. Does it prevent us from signing Klingberg? No. Does it likely give Klingberg a better partner to likely allow him to play his game and increase his value. Speculatively, yes. We'll never know. Do we lose out on kulikovs trade? Sure but most people think he might return what, a 3rd?

Imo, you don't keep Lindholm because you need him now(though he absolutely helps) you keep him because you KNOW you're going to NEED him in 2-3 years all while building on top of what is already there which was a top 5 farm team. And for those who are going to point at the defense in the system. All of those guys are more suited to replacing Fowler anyway.

Yes, but I think if the goal was to make the playoffs he wouldn't have brought back Eakins. I think the FA signings were just to get to the cap floor, not as a sincere effort to make the playoffs.

I don't think they're mutually exclusive. It doesn't have to be playoffs or bottom 3 team.

 

[Deuce22]

I didn't say keep the band together. I said keep some key player(s). My contention is that those specific players played a key role and there were not viable internal replacements nor would there be for at least 3 or more years. Then he didn't go outside the organization to fill those holes. In the next 3 years guys like Terry, Z, McTavish, and Drysdale are all going to be pretty much established if not sooner. Now we have holes that PV needs to fill as those players get older and more expensive. I agree the earlier you draft the chance of getting g a good player increases. My issue is that it's not a guarantee and people act like it is. I'd argue smart drafting is more important than being bad. Look at the best teams in the league. They don't have 6-7 guys that they drafted in the top ten. They maybe have 3 or 4. VP admitted he expected HIS team to be around 50% that's not a top 5 pick. We did not NEED to be bad this year.

Seriously compete for what? The playoffs? The Cup? Say we had kept Lindholm as he's the obvious one. Does that fix this team. Absolutely not. Does it make it better than it is. Absolutely. Does it prevent us from signing Klingberg? No. Does it likely give Klingberg a better partner to likely allow him to play his game and increase his value. Speculatively, yes. We'll never know. Do we lose out on kulikovs trade? Sure but most people think he might return what, a 3rd?

Imo, you don't keep Lindholm because you need him now(though he absolutely helps) you keep him because you KNOW you're going to NEED him in 2-3 years all while building on top of what is already there which was a top 5 farm team. And for those who are going to point at the defense in the system. All of those guys are more suited to replacing Fowler anyway.


I don't think they're mutually exclusive. It doesn't have to be playoffs or bottom 3 team.

Serious question. Would you rather be a bit below .500 this season (resigned Lindholm for what Boston gave him) and not have a chance at Bedard and the other 3 studs. Or be what the Ducks are now, get a stud forward and have the cap space to add to the young core? I don't see the logic of continuing on the Murray path of mediocrity (not a contender, but not able to build a contending roster).

 

[Ducks DVM]

I know winning isn't Verbeek's goal, but in a later interview, Verbeek expected the team to be at .500. This expectation isn't consistent with landing a generational/franchise pick. It's actually kinda jarring he admitted it.

I'm okay with the long road back to relevancy since the TDL b/c #1D aren't often available and if they are, then they'll cost a significant portion of your present and near future, which runs contrary to a rebuild. I just find it comical how people are upset at Murray when Verbeek is running the rebuild back.

The instant Vaakanainen went down in preseason, then Drysdale, and his fill-ins were White and Beaulieu, and he prefers Leason and Megna to Regenda and Grimaldi, and he assembles a D corps where Fowler, Vaakanainen, and White are likely the only current players left on the roster…I think that’s a GM speak lie. The team was constructed with zero team depth, zero roster flexibility, and (if he goes full Verbeekening II at the trade deadline) the likelihood of 0-3 wins after March 3rd. No way was this roster going to be far enough above .500 at the deadline to finish with 81 points.

 

[Mr Rogers]

I know people weren't happy with the trade deadline last year, or this past offseason, but to me the worst thing to really happen to our franchise was that Bob was kept on after the 2020-21 season, and apparently had enough job security to feel comfortable with doing nothing after finishing 2nd last in the league, with Lindholm, Manson, and Rakell entering their walk years. That level of neglect for the franchise is just inexcusable, both from ownership and the front office. Bob should have been fired after that season, and then Verbeek (or whoever) would have a whole offseason to evaluate the roster and make decisions on Lindholm, Manson, and Rakell, instead of having less than 2 months to figure it out. If they insisted on keeping Bob, he should've been able to realize the team as it stood was f***ing terrible and he needed to make some big moves to swing the roster one way or another, but we just flat out neglected the organization for a year, which is pretty f***ing sad, and why more than anything I'm just glad Bob isn't around anymore.

Crazy thing is he may very well still be the GM had it not been for the HR stuff

 

[DavidBL]

Serious question. Would you rather be a bit below .500 this season (resigned Lindholm for what Boston gave him) and not have a chance at Bedard and the other 3 studs. Or be what the Ducks are now, get a stud forward and have the cap space to add to the young core? I don't see the logic of continuing on the Murray path of mediocrity (not a contender, but not able to build a contending roster).

Yes and here is why. 1 player doesn't make a core, let alone a team. For all his faults BM had rebuild a solid chunk of what would be the core with Terry, Z, Drysdale and McTavish not to mention who ever he would have drafted last year. I would love Bedard or one of those top 4 guys. But the reality is that even the worst team in the league is more likely to not get Bedard then they are to get him. You can't control the odds and you can't control other teams. Being a bubble team also doesn't take us completely out of the running for 1 of those players. We could finish 12-15 and still manage to get one of those top 5 guys if we won the lottery. Certainly not likely but as it stands we may have a terrible team, no lindholm and still manage not to get one of them. How Is that good?

 

[cheesymc]

Oh Max... I like him so much more than fake tough guy / always angry faced Comotis.... I had such high expectations for Max this year.... he will probably break out on another team and be Nick Paul-lite.

 

[MMC]

 

[MMC]

The accident occurred about 2:30 p.m. on Sunday and involved two vehicles, Kirkland’s truck and a Toyota Highlander SUV, according to officers.

Kirkland’s black GMC Sierra pickup was stopped in the left lane of the transition road from the northbound 55 Freeway to the northbound 5 Freeway, according to the California Highway Patrol Officer Ken Yoon, who spoke to the two investigating officers.

The officers said a motorist saw Kirkland’s truck and thought he may be having mechanical issues, so the motorist stopped behind Kirkland’s truck and put on their hazard lights. When the motorist got out and attempted to talk to Kirkland, the truck rapidly accelerated and sideswiped the SUV in the right lane, causing the SUV to spin out and wound up facing the wrong direction in the left lane of the transition road.

Kirkland’s truck continued to accelerate down the transition road, onto the 5 Freeway. The truck then cut across all the lanes to the left before hitting the center median. His injuries were characterized as moderate, according to the officers.

The CHP is still investigating whether Kirkland’s truck may have had mechanical issues.

 

[JonathnTaylorTavares]

The accident occurred about 2:30 p.m. on Sunday and involved two vehicles, Kirkland’s truck and a Toyota Highlander SUV, according to officers.

Kirkland’s black GMC Sierra pickup was stopped in the left lane of the transition road from the northbound 55 Freeway to the northbound 5 Freeway, according to the California Highway Patrol Officer Ken Yoon, who spoke to the two investigating officers.

The officers said a motorist saw Kirkland’s truck and thought he may be having mechanical issues, so the motorist stopped behind Kirkland’s truck and put on their hazard lights. When the motorist got out and attempted to talk to Kirkland, the truck rapidly accelerated and sideswiped the SUV in the right lane, causing the SUV to spin out and wound up facing the wrong direction in the left lane of the transition road.

Kirkland’s truck continued to accelerate down the transition road, onto the 5 Freeway. The truck then cut across all the lanes to the left before hitting the center median. His injuries were characterized as moderate, according to the officers.

The CHP is still investigating whether Kirkland’s truck may have had mechanical issues.

Is this extremely confusing to anyone else?

 

[ADHB]

Almost sounds like there was some sort of medical incident.

 

[Mr Rogers]

Is this extremely confusing to anyone else?

yeah, sounds really weird

 

[JlindiesANA]

Anaheim is planning something, no way Getzlaf keeps coming to Honda Center.

Friend got a photo at the Sharks game, he is always at the rink for some reason, I know it’s weird. But yah.. he’s at the Ducks games quite a bit

 

[Static]

Is this extremely confusing to anyone else?

It sounds like something else was going on in the car.

 

[GreatBear]

Depending upon the model year of his truck there could be a very large number of electronic systems on the truck that could malfunction. Having supervised the defense of many motor vehicle product liability cases there are always interesting ways in which vehicles actually malfunction. Alternatively he could have stepped on the gas pedal instead of the brake, which is a mistake that happens more often than any of us would like to think.

It is best to wait for someone to look at his truck and make a determination if there was a problem with the vehicle.

 

[Sean Garrity]

Anaheim is planning something, no way Getzlaf keeps coming to Honda Center.

Friend got a photo at the Sharks game, he is always at the rink for some reason, I know it’s weird. But yah.. he’s at the Ducks games quite a bit View attachment 633411

Maybe a position within the organization.

 

[jaric1862]

Leafs fan coming in peace. What would Kulikov cost?

 

[Static]

Leafs fan coming in peace. What would Kulikov cost?

If he's traded it will probably be for a 3rd/4th. He'd be a good number 5/6 on a contender.