Speculation: 2022-23 Roster Thread Part II

[Leonardo87]

I think he looked good at 2C, but he doesn’t have the muscle (or emotional maturity) to deal with the significantly harder minutes of a 1C.

It would be kinda funny - everyone thought Zegras would be the 1C and McTavish the 2C, but it could well be the reverse IF this year is indicative of the future. Very big if though.

If they some how draft Fantilli or Carlsson, things will get interesting.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I think he looked good at 2C, but he doesn’t have the muscle (or emotional maturity) to deal with the significantly harder minutes of a 1C.

It would be kinda funny - everyone thought Zegras would be the 1C and McTavish the 2C, but it could well be the reverse IF this year is indicative of the future. Very big if though.

I was pushing for McTavish centering Rico and Terry before the season started and to start at center. With Z, Strome, and Lundy at center, guess the org felt like they didn't need to rush him and follow the Z template of going to wing, then to center. I gotta thank the many injuries down the middle to give McTavish a chance to start at 4C with 6 minutes of playing time (carrick out and then Grant out) and get a longer look at 3C b/c of Lundy's long term injury.

Here is coach Eakins talking about McTavish's ascension after his 4-point night against the Sharks:

“It’s a whole bunch of different things, right?” Eakins said. “It was his responsibility without the puck. And when you move a player up like that, we were really thinking about his matchup. He had been playing basically third-line minutes. Getting a little bit extra on the power play. Along the way, some nights when we dressed seven (defensemen), I tried to find him some extra minutes there. But we thought he was ready for extra minutes and his play without the puck. We thought he was ready for better matchups.​

​

“The thing that I talked to him about is, you’re not going to see the third pair of D now. You’re going to see their best pair of D. And you’re not going to see the third line. You’re going to see their best line. And there’s a responsibility and a great challenge with that. We’re able to try things right now. So far, so good.”​

A lot of people look for lots of highlights or scoring. During McTavish's OHL farewell tour in the regular season, OHL playoffs, and Memorial cup, I would cite many events that McTavish helped his team score without getting on the score sheet or be a highlight reel. But some fans, watching the same game, would just say McTavish shows up out of nowhere to score in seconds and that's it, he's invisible most of the time.

---

Former GM Bob cited that he wanted to start both McTavish and Z at center, but there's a possibility one of them could go to wing. Between the two, I always thought Z would be the one who would go to wing b/c McTavish is built differently from Z and McTavish showed to be better at faceoffs. McTavish had a 61.33% FO win PCT at the WJC-18. At the WJC-20, McTavish was doubled up to play 1C and shutdown C in the elimination rounds due to 3C Grieg's injury. That kinda spoke volumes of his play at center.

Maybe Z is better off as a 2C or LW2. I've cited this often in the 2023 draft thread:

If we pick #1 overall and pick RW Bedard, then Z stays at center.​

If we pick #2 or 3 overall and select C Fantilli or C Carlsson, then Z moves to wing with one of them.​

If we pick #4 overall and select Michkov, then Z stays at center.​

It maybe possible that Strome keeps Z at LW2. Z played LW1 at the WJC-20 to win gold and tore up the tourney at the same time. I'd still want to try Z at center, but we do have Strome for four more seasons. Hmmm... could you imagine next year with a top-6 of...

Line 1: Rico-McTavish-Bedard
Line 2: Z-Strome-Terry (where Strome would be the Rucchin Factor)

 

[Hockey Duckie]

You left out an important piece of information. Rakell, Manson, and Lindholm were nearing the end of their UFA season and Ducks weren't a playoff team with them on the roster.

Verbeek had the option to keep all the UFA's and add talent depth. Surely one can be creative to acknowledge such a possibility could occur and lead to a playoff spot next year. Why? B/c the Kings did it last year. GM Murray did mention that his three NCAA D-men (LaCombe, Thrun, and Moore) could be trade bait at the State of the Team going into the 2021 Offseason, but withheld from doing any transactions. It was too early to pull the trigger on his rebuild process.

2020-21:

Ducks finished with 43 points, 2nd worst record. No playoffs.​

Kings finished with 49 points, 8th worst record. No playoffs.​

2021 off-season:

Ducks didn't sign anyone.​

Kings signed C Danault, D Elder, and traded for RW Arvidsson.​

I brought my receipts.

You don't know personally what would have happened if Murray didn't shoot himself in the foot. But I do know Verbeek had options available to him and Verbeek chose to reset the team. You can't be serious to believe that Verbeek had only one option. But here you are pushing that narrative.

====

IMO, Verbeek knew all along he wanted to reset the team.

• Evidence of reset
  • Evidence 1: Didn't try to find a replacement for Manson when Verbeek became GM and Manson was put on IR during the All-Star break.
  • Evidence 2: Verbeek had no contact with Manson or his agent after Verbeek was hired
  • Evidence 3: We found out Verbeek has an age-to-contract length rubric
  • Evidence 4: Lindholm's interview on Jan 8, 2023 from the Athletic
    
    The Bruins simply made the kind of commitment Verbeek was unwilling to make. There were offers — the Ducks were willing to pay more than the $6.5 million AAV in his current deal — but they didn’t go more than five years in length. And the 28-year-old Lindholm, who often lives by the credo of controlling the things he can control, started preparing his mind last spring when it was apparent the difference between five and eight years wasn’t going to be bridged.
    
    “I would say it’s not easy because I knew if I was getting traded, the team probably wouldn’t sign me,” Lindholm told The Athletic. “And that’s not always an easy situation because I haven’t been anywhere else. So that was tough for me. And I think that’s why there was a big chance maybe thinking that I possibly could stay. But they made it pretty clear and quick that I don’t think they wanted to commit to me for those years that other teams were doing.
    
    “That made it pretty easy for me to move on because obviously we all knew the situation even last year. They made it pretty clear. But they still made some kind of effort.”

Verbeek owed no loyalty to the soon to be UFA's, but also he probably didn't care what they brought to the table. He just saw he can get assets from them to remake the team. Pat could have kept Des, but a 3rd round pick was more valuable than protecting his team. Murray was the opposite, he'd spend assets to protect his team b/c Murray used a 4th round pick to acquire Des.

The assets Verbeek brought in believed the team would be a .500 team. That's not a good sign that the GM has a good pulse on the team. Yet, it's gonna be long while until we see if Verbeek made the correct decisions. Landing Bedard would help soften the blow.

 

[Static]

Axel Andersson is someone id like to see get some games after klingberg is traded.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Axel Andersson is someone id like to see get some games after klingberg is traded.

If Axel ever decides not be made out of glass. He's been out since the week ending on Nov 27th. Second year in a row he's been afflicted with injuries that stops his progress.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

Who on that list has good value? Klingberg is the "prize" on that list. What are you expecting?

It's not the list, it's the link with all the NHL trades, so you can check yourself what kind of players fetched 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

If Axel ever decides not be made out of glass. He's been out since the week ending on Nov 27th. Second year in a row he's been afflicted with injuries that stops his progress.

Seems like every Dman the Bruins trade the Ducks is injury prone to the point of living on the IR list.
I guess its because their mad that Beleskey lived on IR for them as well.

 

[JlindiesANA]

Could we possibly see a Getzlaf return? This dude is at like every single game. Is he on the staff? Why isn’t he in the suites? I got so many questions.

He showed up to the Boston game.

 

[Deuce22]

Verbeek had the option to keep all the UFA's and add talent depth. Surely one can be creative to acknowledge such a possibility could occur and lead to a playoff spot next year. Why? B/c the Kings did it last year. GM Murray did mention that his three NCAA D-men (LaCombe, Thrun, and Moore) could be trade bait at the State of the Team going into the 2021 Offseason, but withheld from doing any transactions. It was too early to pull the trigger on his rebuild process.

2020-21:

Ducks finished with 43 points, 2nd worst record. No playoffs.​

Kings finished with 49 points, 8th worst record. No playoffs.​

2021 off-season:

Ducks didn't sign anyone.​

Kings signed C Danault, D Elder, and traded for RW Arvidsson.​

I brought my receipts.

You don't know personally what would have happened if Murray didn't shoot himself in the foot. But I do know Verbeek had options available to him and Verbeek chose to reset the team. You can't be serious to believe that Verbeek had only one option. But here you are pushing that narrative.

====

IMO, Verbeek knew all along he wanted to reset the team.

• Evidence of reset
  • Evidence 1: Didn't try to find a replacement for Manson when Verbeek became GM and Manson was put on IR during the All-Star break.
  • Evidence 2: Verbeek had no contact with Manson or his agent after Verbeek was hired
  • Evidence 3: We found out Verbeek has an age-to-contract length rubric
  • Evidence 4: Lindholm's interview on Jan 8, 2023 from the Athletic
    
    The Bruins simply made the kind of commitment Verbeek was unwilling to make. There were offers — the Ducks were willing to pay more than the $6.5 million AAV in his current deal — but they didn’t go more than five years in length. And the 28-year-old Lindholm, who often lives by the credo of controlling the things he can control, started preparing his mind last spring when it was apparent the difference between five and eight years wasn’t going to be bridged.
    
    “I would say it’s not easy because I knew if I was getting traded, the team probably wouldn’t sign me,” Lindholm told The Athletic. “And that’s not always an easy situation because I haven’t been anywhere else. So that was tough for me. And I think that’s why there was a big chance maybe thinking that I possibly could stay. But they made it pretty clear and quick that I don’t think they wanted to commit to me for those years that other teams were doing.
    
    “That made it pretty easy for me to move on because obviously we all knew the situation even last year. They made it pretty clear. But they still made some kind of effort.”

Verbeek owed no loyalty to the soon to be UFA's, but also he probably didn't care what they brought to the table. He just saw he can get assets from them to remake the team. Pat could have kept Des, but a 3rd round pick was more valuable than protecting his team. Murray was the opposite, he'd spend assets to protect his team b/c Murray used a 4th round pick to acquire Des.

The assets Verbeek brought in believed the team would be a .500 team. That's not a good sign that the GM has a good pulse on the team. Yet, it's gonna be long while until we see if Verbeek made the correct decisions. Landing Bedard would help soften the blow.

Of course Verbeek had the option to resign the UFA's and go all in on keeping that group together. But it was a poor option. The coach he was left with was a career loser in the NHL. His goalie had regressed and hadn't been good for three years. The team was stuck in a cycle of battling to make the playoffs, but wasn't capable of making a Cup run. He was blessed with good young talent arriving, but the vets on the roster weren't special. He diagnosed that a real rebuild was needed to contend for a Cup eventually. It wasn't happening with the group that he inherited. I believe that he made the right call. Short term pain leading to long term gain.

 

[DavidBL]

Of course Verbeek had the option to resign the UFA's and go all in on keeping that group together. But it was a poor option. The coach he was left with was a career loser in the NHL. His goalie had regressed and hadn't been good for three years. The team was stuck in a cycle of battling to make the playoffs, but wasn't capable of making a Cup run. He was blessed with good young talent arriving, but the vets on the roster weren't special. He diagnosed that a real rebuild was needed to contend for a Cup eventually. It wasn't happening with the group that he inherited. I believe that he made the right call. Short term pain leading to long term gain.

I don't think he should have resigned everyone but he decimated this D without good plan to fix it. Strome and Vats were lateral to the guys we lost and honestly signed for similar term. Change was needed, I'll admit that. But we'd be a lot closer to making the playoffs if we had kept one or both of the D men.

 

[FiveHoleTickler]

I don't think he should have resigned everyone but he decimated this D without good plan to fix it. Strome and Vats were lateral to the guys we lost and honestly signed for similar term. Change was needed, I'll admit that. But we'd be a lot closer to making the playoffs if we had kept one or both of the D men.

That's pure speculation. None of us can know what the plan was. Sometimes things don't work out just like the Dadonov trade last season and the attempted Niederiter signing during the summer.

I agree with @Deuce22. You have to look at things from a long term perspective. There's plenty in the pipeline and Verbeek has plenty of assets to work with. He'll very likely have even more after this year's trade deadline. Couple those aspects with the flexibility of a good cap situation and you've got a lot of possibilities and opportunities for things to go well.

 

[DavidBL]

That's pure speculation. None of us can know what the plan was. Sometimes things don't work out just like the Dadonov trade last season and the attempted Niederiter signing during the summer.

I agree with @Deuce22. You have to look at things from a long term perspective. There's plenty in the pipeline and Verbeek has plenty of assets to work with. He'll very likely have even more after this year's trade deadline. Couple those aspects with the flexibility of a good cap situation and you've got a lot of possibilities and opportunities for things to go well.

Just about everything we do on this site is pure speculation... what we know is that our D is a mess and a disgrace for an NHL team. I see it as one of 3 options. He had a bad plan, no plan, or was unable to execute his plan. All 3 are failures on PV. Failures generated because of his decision to move on from both Manson and Lindolm, as justified as they may have been. Roster flexibility is great but if he is unable to execute it it's worthless. We had that flexibility last summer too and he failed to utilize it. I fail to see how being flexible is a plan.

 

[MMC]

 

[MMC]

Could we possibly see a Getzlaf return? This dude is at like every single game. Is he on the staff? Why isn’t he in the suites? I got so many questions.

He showed up to the Boston game.

I've yet to see Getzy at a game myself this year, but one of my coworkers told me he does have a suite but he hasn't seen him go to it at that many games so far. He also said everyone who sees him asks him if he'll ever consider coming back and he says he has no interest

 

[Leonardo87]

I've yet to see Getzy at a game myself this year, but one of my coworkers told me he does have a suite but he hasn't seen him go to it at that many games so far. He also said everyone who sees him asks him if he'll ever consider coming back and he says he has no interest

Getz watching this team, probably said to himself, thank goodness I retired, lol.

 

[FiveHoleTickler]

Just about everything we do on this site is pure speculation... what we know is that our D is a mess and a disgrace for an NHL team. I see it as one of 3 options. He had a bad plan, no plan, or was unable to execute his plan. All 3 are failures on PV. Failures generated because of his decision to move on from both Manson and Lindolm, as justified as they may have been. Roster flexibility is great but if he is unable to execute it it's worthless. We had that flexibility last summer too and he failed to utilize it. I fail to see how being flexible is a plan.

Sure, but your statement presupposes the notion that you knew the plan when you didn't.

I fail to see how being flexible is a plan.

It's a plan because it allows possibilities. The more possibilities, the more opportunity. The more opportunity, the better chances of success. It's not rocket science.

You're operating under the assumption that Verbeek wanted to compete for the playoffs this year when nearly everything he's said or done has screamed his "plan" was to do the exact opposite. It's baffling, really.

 

[DavidBL]

Sure, but your statement presupposes the notion that you knew the plan when you didn't.


It's a plan because it allows possibilities. The more possibilities, the more opportunity. The more opportunity, the better chances of success. It's not rocket science.

You're operating under the assumption that Verbeek wanted to compete for the playoffs this year when nearly everything he's said or done has screamed his "plan" was to do the exact opposite. It's baffling, really.

Fair, I don't know his plan. It's my opinion it was and is a bad plan. I have been very clear my opinion is anti- tank. Imo, the goal should always be to make the team better as you can't rely on things like the draft lottery. You can't rely on players becoming available to fill your holes when you need to fill them. You want to maintain some measure flexibility sure but it's no excuse to ice the team he has put together. Using the long term is an excuse to make people comfortable with the shit show that is the season. People don't like giving g away the future foe the present but seem perfectly happy to give away the present for an unknown future. That's what's baffling to me.

 

[JlindiesANA]

I've yet to see Getzy at a game myself this year, but one of my coworkers told me he does have a suite but he hasn't seen him go to it at that many games so far. He also said everyone who sees him asks him if he'll ever consider coming back and he says he has no interest

I mean it’s not even where’s Waldo. All my friends are texting me pictures of Getzlaf at the games. He has to be scouting or something. He shows up more than Selanne does.

Watch it be Pastrnak

 

[FiveHoleTickler]

Fair, I don't know his plan. It's my opinion it was and is a bad plan. I have been very clear my opinion is anti- tank. Imo, the goal should always be to make the team better as you can't rely on things like the draft lottery. You can't rely on players becoming available to fill your holes when you need to fill them. You want to maintain some measure flexibility sure but it's no excuse to ice the team he has put together. Using the long term is an excuse to make people comfortable with the shit show that is the season. People don't like giving g away the future foe the present but seem perfectly happy to give away the present for an unknown future. That's what's baffling to me.

This is an absurd take.

If you lose more games, you have a better opportunity to draft a good player. The more good players you draft, the better position you are to compete. There is tons of variance in terms of success, but it's without question a better philosophy than keeping the band together when they've played the tune of missing the playoffs for 4 straight seasons and would only get worse.

 

[MMC]

what we know is that our D is a mess and a disgrace for an NHL team. I see it as one of 3 options. He had a bad plan, no plan, or was unable to execute his plan. All 3 are failures on PV. Failures generated because of his decision to move on from both Manson and Lindolm, as justified as they may have been. Roster flexibility is great but if he is unable to execute it it's worthless. We had that flexibility last summer too and he failed to utilize it. I fail to see how being flexible is a plan.

This year's defense can only be considered a failure if you expected us to seriously compete this year. The group as a whole is terrible, but we're still going to be able to cash in with Klingberg and Kulikov at the deadline, and as early as next year a lot of young talent will be competing for spots. I think I've said this before but I think the lack of D talent coming through this year and the last couple (outside of Drysdale) can be attributed to our drafting from 2016-19. Mahura was the only defenseman we drafted in 2016, we drafted none in 2017, only Drew in 2018, (who has since moved to F), and our 2019 D are all still in college. So since 2016 (now 7 years ago), the only drafted D that have made it to the pro level for us are Mahura and Drysdale, which seems incredibly low, (though Benoit as a UDFA was a great find)

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Of course Verbeek had the option to resign the UFA's and go all in on keeping that group together. But it was a poor option. The coach he was left with was a career loser in the NHL. His goalie had regressed and hadn't been good for three years. The team was stuck in a cycle of battling to make the playoffs, but wasn't capable of making a Cup run. He was blessed with good young talent arriving, but the vets on the roster weren't special. He diagnosed that a real rebuild was needed to contend for a Cup eventually. It wasn't happening with the group that he inherited. I believe that he made the right call. Short term pain leading to long term gain.

We have no idea if it's a poor option. With this reset, I never came out and said it was a poor option, but it was an option that Verbeek wanted to go in and we'd have to wait three to five years to see if the gamble worked. With the reset, Verbeek's life with the cap is made easy, but the outcome remains unknown. You are selling "thinking past the sale" with "poor option" b/c you are either fitting a narrative or lacking creativity.

2020-21 Kings finished 6 points ahead of the Ducks at the bottom of the league, drafting 8th overall.
2021 off-season: Signed FA C Dadanov, D Edler, and traded for RW Arvidsson.
2021-22 Kings went to the playoffs.

2021-22 Kraken finished with the 3rd worst record last year.
2022 off-season: Signed FA F Burakowsky, D Schultz, backup G Martin, and traded for F Bjorkstrand.
2022-23 Kraken are currently in a playoff spot, 3rd in the Pacific with 3 games-in-hand with respect to VGK and 5 games-in-hand with respect to LAK.

2021-22 Devils finished with the 5th worst record last year.
2022 off-season: Signed D Brendan Smith and F Palat. Traded for G Vanecek, F Haula, and D Marino.
2022-23 Devils are currently in a playoff spot, 2nd in the Met.

I spy a pattern with all three rebuilding teams, they added talent outside the org en masse. Former GM Murray was open to the idea of acquiring more talent after the COVID season, but opted to let his youth continue to develop - which we all were disappointed in. Yet, it worked out because Terry and Z broke out offensively, Lundy has a goal scoring light go on, and Drysdale was able to last a whole season physically. With the youth breaking out early in the 2021-22 season, the next logical step would be to acquire talent outside the org to add needed talent depth.

Again, Verbeek never really entertained the option of taking the next step to be competitive when he took up shop. When Verbeek was hired on during all-star break, Verbeek never lifted a finger when Manson was put on IR during all-star break to help the team stay afloat. In late Oct 2019, D Manson fell to injury and put on crutches. Despite being a rebuild season, Murray traded for D Gudbranson to fill in Manson's skates a day or two later.

 

[MMC]

I know people weren't happy with the trade deadline last year, or this past offseason, but to me the worst thing to really happen to our franchise was that Bob was kept on after the 2020-21 season, and apparently had enough job security to feel comfortable with doing nothing after finishing 2nd last in the league, with Lindholm, Manson, and Rakell entering their walk years. That level of neglect for the franchise is just inexcusable, both from ownership and the front office. Bob should have been fired after that season, and then Verbeek (or whoever) would have a whole offseason to evaluate the roster and make decisions on Lindholm, Manson, and Rakell, instead of having less than 2 months to figure it out. If they insisted on keeping Bob, he should've been able to realize the team as it stood was f***ing terrible and he needed to make some big moves to swing the roster one way or another, but we just flat out neglected the organization for a year, which is pretty f***ing sad, and why more than anything I'm just glad Bob isn't around anymore.

 

[MMC]

I spy a pattern with all three rebuilding teams, they added talent outside the org en masse. Former GM Murray was open to the idea of acquiring more talent after the COVID season, but opted to let his youth continue to develop - which we all were disappointed in. Yet, it worked out because Terry and Z broke out offensively, Lundy has a goal scoring light go on, and Drysdale was able to last a whole season physically. With the youth breaking out early in the 2021-22 season, the next logical step would be to acquire talent outside the org to add needed talent depth.

"It worked out", yet the team was on track to miss the playoffs for the 4th straight season?

 

[McDonald19]

I know people weren't happy with the trade deadline last year, or this past offseason, but to me the worst thing to really happen to our franchise was that Bob was kept on after the 2020-21 season, and apparently had enough job security to feel comfortable with doing nothing after finishing 2nd last in the league, with Lindholm, Manson, and Rakell entering their walk years. That level of neglect for the franchise is just inexcusable, both from ownership and the front office. Bob should have been fired after that season, and then Verbeek (or whoever) would have a whole offseason to evaluate the roster and make decisions on Lindholm, Manson, and Rakell, instead of having less than 2 months to figure it out. If they insisted on keeping Bob, he should've been able to realize the team as it stood was f***ing terrible and he needed to make some big moves to swing the roster one way or another, but we just flat out neglected the organization for a year, which is pretty f***ing sad, and why more than anything I'm just glad Bob isn't around anymore.

Samueli’s seem very hands off compared to other NHL owners. They put a lot of trust in Bob, unfortunately.

 

[MMC]

Samueli’s seem very hands off compared to other NHL owners. They put a lot of trust in Bob, unfortunately.

Generally I appreciate them for this but at the end of the day someone has to hold the GM accountable