2022/23 Roster Thread III: Run It Back!
- Thread starter Hollywood Cannon
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mja
Everything was beautiful, and nothing hurt
Literally none of us think it's all Fletcher and that if they fire him the problem will be solved. They need to clean house, which has been OUR EXACT POSITION THIS WHOLE f***ING TIME!!!!!! You're the one who has been in lockstep with / rationalizing this regime's decision-making for the last 7+ years!
The only one who has constructed a fantasy here is you, with your Chuck is just really a patsy but somehow that doesn't make him a bad GM and it's all Paul Holmgren and Dave Scott's fault nonsense. It's crystal clear that the guy with the least amount of pull in the organization right now is Paul freaking Holmgren, because if he had anywhere near the influence you've claimed then Gaudreau would have been a Flyer about a minute after free agency opened. No, this primarily has Chuck's stink on it, this has Clarke's stink on it, and Scott is essentially a figurehead enabling all of this bullshit. By all means, permanently retire Clarke and Holmgren, fire Fletcher, and fire Scott into the Schuylkill!
You're just wrong. Stop writing hundreds of 5,000-word essays of revisionist fantasy because you thought you were the smartest guy in the room. Just admit you are wrong and move on. You're already basically there anyway.
Starat327
Top .01% OnlyHands
BiggE
SELL THE DAMN TEAM
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
Everyone knows he's not the entire problem. Everyone knows Clarke and everyone he's ever met need to go. Or they'll just find another Fletcher.
That can be true and Fletcher can still run an incoherent operation. He certainly never had any plan in Minnesota either.
mja
Everything was beautiful, and nothing hurt
He's now shifted his entire position way the hell if not completely left, and implied in that is an admission that he's been wrong. He's basically conceded at this point, he just isn't owning it.
I think the TDA comment is part Torts being Torts and part a coach just saying positive things to keep a room united more. There’s no seven-level chess at play. A lighter footprint guy may have said it in a way that didn’t suggest those questioning TDA’s ignorant views or troublesome past were out of line, but it’s early and TDA hasn’t said or done anything outwardly controversial since being acquired. Hard pass on making anything of this now. I’m in the wait-until-he-does-it-here camp, which is almost certainly a temporary camp unless TDA has truly found Jesus.
As for Fletcher and office politics, I think this is largely who Chuck Fletcher is. Then again, I also think deadhead had a point that there’s possibly some inter-office politics at play, where Holmgren insists the team could use a big, rugged defenseman and a Tasmanian Devil entrance later, we’re balls deep into an awful contract and out a bunch of valuable assets. For better or worse, I flatly refuse to believe Hextall would have ever made a trade sequence like the one for RR on his own or succumbed to pressure to do it. It’s not a moral question but one of style; a review of any 2014 article on his hiring will show he was a guy who didn’t want to be told how to run a hockey team, which is clearly a key reason he’s a GM in a different part of PA now. Do I think Fletcher gets undue influence from above? Certainly some. Do I think Fletcher is just a pawn? Ha ha, no.
As for Fletcher and office politics, I think this is largely who Chuck Fletcher is. Then again, I also think deadhead had a point that there’s possibly some inter-office politics at play, where Holmgren insists the team could use a big, rugged defenseman and a Tasmanian Devil entrance later, we’re balls deep into an awful contract and out a bunch of valuable assets. For better or worse, I flatly refuse to believe Hextall would have ever made a trade sequence like the one for RR on his own or succumbed to pressure to do it. It’s not a moral question but one of style; a review of any 2014 article on his hiring will show he was a guy who didn’t want to be told how to run a hockey team, which is clearly a key reason he’s a GM in a different part of PA now. Do I think Fletcher gets undue influence from above? Certainly some. Do I think Fletcher is just a pawn? Ha ha, no.
Larry44
#FlyersPerpetualMediocrity
- Mar 1, 2002
- 12,193
- 7,754
And so he should. What a blowhard!Tortorella is getting killed for this quote.
BiggE
SELL THE DAMN TEAM
Clarke’s to blame because, without his influence, Cuck is never hired. But since the day of his hire, this is squarely on Cuck. The only person with more power in the organization than old Cuckles is Dave Scott and I very much doubt that the corporate shill is the one micromanaging hockey decisions.
Cuck has been on the hot seat since firing his 5 million per HC with over 2.5 years left on the deal. He is a horrible negotiator and a poor judge of talent. Do the advisors need to go? Sure, new blood would do this organization a lot of good, but, by far, the 2 men who need to be sent packing the most are Cuck and the idiot in charge of it all, Dave Scott.
Cuck has been on the hot seat since firing his 5 million per HC with over 2.5 years left on the deal. He is a horrible negotiator and a poor judge of talent. Do the advisors need to go? Sure, new blood would do this organization a lot of good, but, by far, the 2 men who need to be sent packing the most are Cuck and the idiot in charge of it all, Dave Scott.
Starat327
Top .01% OnlyHands
Oh, basically admitting it. I thought you meant he was basically wrong. I was gonna say..
mja
Everything was beautiful, and nothing hurt
God no, he's been horrendously wrong this whole time stretching back to at least Hakstol's second season.
blackjackmulligan
Registered User
- Jun 17, 2022
- 3,485
- 1,659
What topic will be beaten to death today?
This shit show is all on the incompetent President/GM. If he was really in charge that is funny as hell.
What is clear to me is the President/GM runs this team. He makes all the final decisions. This blaming Clarke and the others is total nonsense.
This shit show is all on the incompetent President/GM. If he was really in charge that is funny as hell.
This is getting old as f***. Clarke and Holmgren doesn't actually do anything anymore. They do not make decisions anymore. Get it through your thick wacky skull already.
JojoTheWhale
"You should keep it." -- Striiker
- May 22, 2008
- 36,000
- 111,227
I would think/hope deady isn't saying most people around here think that. I'm so done with everyone in the org that if you told me the Executive Admins were in favor of the Deslauriers contract, I'd want turnover there too.
renberg
Registered User
Unless the incompetent "alumni" are sent away, it'll be the same with different people at the top. It's not 1970 and the game has changed. Using fifty year old blueprints to run an organization today is a recipe for failure. People who advocate doing that need to be sent home.
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
Starat327
Top .01% OnlyHands
BackToTheBrierePatch
Eff Cancer
BackToTheBrierePatch
Eff Cancer
Get a big bucket of popcorn and watch the daily drama flow with this organization
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 51,131
- 22,262
Fletcher was hired to be "collaborative." The anti-Hextall. I don't think that's very controversial.
This is what happens when decisions are made by committee.
There have been some bad mistakes, but people pile on every decision in a knee jerk response.
The bigger problem has been the lack of a coherent vision, which of course, is what you'd expect from a committee.
The biggest villain is Scott, b/c he's the "CEO." It's his responsibility to make changes when things become dysfunctional.
To absolve him b/c he's ignorant - his job is to learn enough to be able to judge the performance of his subordinates.
Now the 2018-19 moves were an impatient response to a half-ass rebuild, which was partially Hextall's fault - if you're gonna rebuild, rebuild. If Snider gave him the green light he should have run with it, if not, then Snider is at fault. But Holmgren got tired of the team floundering, tired of the college coach. Which explains the big name HC and the "win now" moves - and it worked until COVID.
Summer of 2021 was a decision to stick with AV and hope he could recapture the 2019-20 magic. That was the biggest mistake, b/c it meant reworking the roster to AV's preferences (if I only had the right players) instead of admitting 2019-20 was a fluke.
Fletcher's real flaw wasn't going along, he was hired to go along, it's that he did a bad job of implementing a bad plan the last couple years. His first year was fine, he implemented Holmgren's directives at minimum cost. Had two very good drafts. Since then, not so good.
But the moves since this spring have been completely incoherent, as if 2 or 3 people are grabbing the steering wheel, and the Flyers truck is weaving down the road. Which is why I think Fletcher isn't in control.
The solution is simple - fire everyone, bring in a competent "CEO" who has a basic understanding of sports in general and the NHL in particular, and hire a GM who understands how the game has changed since the lockout. Give the GM complete authority to sink or swim, no "senior advisors" and see what happens.
This is what happens when decisions are made by committee.
There have been some bad mistakes, but people pile on every decision in a knee jerk response.
The bigger problem has been the lack of a coherent vision, which of course, is what you'd expect from a committee.
The biggest villain is Scott, b/c he's the "CEO." It's his responsibility to make changes when things become dysfunctional.
To absolve him b/c he's ignorant - his job is to learn enough to be able to judge the performance of his subordinates.
Now the 2018-19 moves were an impatient response to a half-ass rebuild, which was partially Hextall's fault - if you're gonna rebuild, rebuild. If Snider gave him the green light he should have run with it, if not, then Snider is at fault. But Holmgren got tired of the team floundering, tired of the college coach. Which explains the big name HC and the "win now" moves - and it worked until COVID.
Summer of 2021 was a decision to stick with AV and hope he could recapture the 2019-20 magic. That was the biggest mistake, b/c it meant reworking the roster to AV's preferences (if I only had the right players) instead of admitting 2019-20 was a fluke.
Fletcher's real flaw wasn't going along, he was hired to go along, it's that he did a bad job of implementing a bad plan the last couple years. His first year was fine, he implemented Holmgren's directives at minimum cost. Had two very good drafts. Since then, not so good.
But the moves since this spring have been completely incoherent, as if 2 or 3 people are grabbing the steering wheel, and the Flyers truck is weaving down the road. Which is why I think Fletcher isn't in control.
The solution is simple - fire everyone, bring in a competent "CEO" who has a basic understanding of sports in general and the NHL in particular, and hire a GM who understands how the game has changed since the lockout. Give the GM complete authority to sink or swim, no "senior advisors" and see what happens.
Ghosts Beer
I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
- Feb 10, 2014
- 22,783
- 16,531
My God the negativity & ceaseless whining on this board.
They didn’t sign a 29-year-old Gaudreau to a 7 year, $70M contract. Get over it.
It’s probably for the best, as much as I also craved the intrigue.
And it seemed like 80% of this board argued for months that an “aggressive retool” was the wrong approach & tanking was the way to go.
But many of the same people are now complaining the team hasn’t done enough to improve this off-season.
If you think they’re going to suck, shouldn’t you be happy?
They didn’t sign a 29-year-old Gaudreau to a 7 year, $70M contract. Get over it.
It’s probably for the best, as much as I also craved the intrigue.
And it seemed like 80% of this board argued for months that an “aggressive retool” was the wrong approach & tanking was the way to go.
But many of the same people are now complaining the team hasn’t done enough to improve this off-season.
If you think they’re going to suck, shouldn’t you be happy?
- Sep 28, 2014
- 78,149
- 125,688
Hollywood Cannon
I'm Away From My Desk
Do you not recognize that every time you do this you're whining? If you don't like it then leave. We've already established that you're high on hopium. That doesn't mean the rest of us need to be.
P.S. We've also explained to you countless times that everything else in your message is disingenuous fabricated garbage.
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
I don't know how many times people need to explain to you what they actually thought about things before you finally stop strawmanning.
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