2022/23 Roster Thread III: Run It Back!

[Beef Invictus]

Apparently there is video and text showing it was consensual. Probably not gonna go too far

The video and text weren't consensual, so that's a problem

 

[Diaper Mask Bandits]

In 2018 Holmgren made it clear that Fletcher was hired with a "bias for action," his words.

This summer, we'll find out what was going on behind the scenes at some point, but it's clear that JG wasn't Fletcher's priority, and maybe not the FO - maybe there's an internal civil war, maybe they finally realized they weren't competing for the Cup the next couple years and didn't want a $10M contract for a 29 year old player (Couts at 30 only makes $7.5M).

Timing is everything, obviously something changed between the TDL when they resigned Risto when they were prepared to trade him and the summer. TDA was a short-term move that wouldn't block a rebuild/reload and might accelerate it. But it did block a JG signing.

The interesting thing is Torts was supposed to signal a lack of patience, yet none of the teams that hired him (maybe Van and that didn't end well) engaged in an "aggressive retool." His MO is more to push his new team, evaluate his players, have the GM make a move or two, then win with whom he has on hand.

Did any of those teams have idiots like Holmgren behind the scenes?

 

[Curufinwe]

Apparently there is video and text showing it was consensual. Probably not gonna go too far

Problem is the video came afterwards, not before.

 

[renberg]

I'm getting a feeling that Groseneck, Ersson or Sandstorm need to come to camp ready to play. They're going to be needed.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Why Flyers see much more than a fighter in Deslauriers

What are the Flyers getting in Nicolas Deslauriers? They see much more than just a fighter. By Jordan Hall

www.nbcsports.com

The journalists are already making excuses to justify the signing.

 

[ponder719]

I'm getting a feeling that Groseneck, Ersson or Sandstorm need to come to camp ready to play. They're going to be needed.

Make Chuck play goal. He deserves the Goldberg treatment after what he's done to this team.

 

[deadhead]

Why Flyers see much more than a fighter in Deslauriers

What are the Flyers getting in Nicolas Deslauriers? They see much more than just a fighter. By Jordan Hall

www.nbcsports.com

The journalists are already making excuses to justify the signing.

That's Jordan Hall, he's not a journalist, he's a shill.

Though it's a good sign that Deslauriers realizes fighting is not his ticket to PT:

Deslauriers mentioned that he has expanded his game.

"I've been working hard every summer just for that," he said. "The league is getting faster, I've been doing a lot of power skating. I know my age and everything. This league is getting younger and faster. So I know what I have to bring."

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

That's Jordan Hall, he's not a journalist, he's a shill.

Though it's a good sign that Deslauriers realizes fighting is not his ticket to PT:

Deslauriers mentioned that he has expanded his game.

"I've been working hard every summer just for that," he said. "The league is getting faster, I've been doing a lot of power skating. I know my age and everything. This league is getting younger and faster. So I know what I have to bring."

At least he recognizes that the games are going to start off shitty and will be in need of momentum changes.

 

[DancingPanther]

At least he recognizes that the games are going to start off shitty and will be in need of momentum changes.

A player saying this in 2022

 

[sauce88]

Good luck trying to improve skating at the ripe age of 31.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

The goofy and pathetic part isn't so much the bet, but rather your apparent need to point to anything, no matter how improbable or ultimately meaningless, to continue to delude yourself that we're in a good spot.

Good spot? No. I'm not saying they are in a "good" spot.

(And before you make the obligatory "good spot" Fletcher reference, he was talking about with regard to expanding his analytics department, not talking about the roster.)

What I am saying is that they aren't in nearly as bad of a spot as all of the doom and gloom on here and Twitter would indicate.

I get it. We wanted a big name to be excited about and didn't get it. So now it's the end of the world. Natural human emotions.

But as much as I wanted Gaudreau just to stir up some interest, he really doesn't fit the Flyers' timeline and there's an appreciable chance it becomes an absolutely terrible anchor of a contract. He was under a point per game in his age 26 and 27 seasons. That's not a great sign when you're giving him a 7 year $10M per contract at age 29.

And priority 1 for this team was addressing the defense. Without Ellis, they were a complete abomination. I think they did a good job fixing their defense and feel pretty good about their top 6 (and York as a regular), and even their top 9 if you count Seeler as 7 and Zamula and Attard as 8 and 9 honing their games in the AHL.

They're getting their top 2 centers back and hopefully healthy.

Do people forget Couturier only played 20-some games and wasn't close to himself even in that short span?

Do people forget Hayes had multiple core surgeries, missed half the season, and didn't start looking like himself until the end of the season, which is common with such surgeries?

Frost has been hyped like crazy on this board for years. Now he's 23 with a clear roster spot, and not a peep. Shouldn't all of his backers be excited and acting like he'll be a real asset to the team?

It's endless negativity. But this team has (allegedly) one of the top young goalies in the league who is only about to turn 24; it has a solid defense corps; just no "star" power up front. But certainly plenty of opportunities for kids to step up and make their marks. I've seen teams like this come together before.

If they suck, they suck. They'll be in the Bedard sweepstakes, have their 2023 1st, and have 2 firsts in 2024. And they'll have JVR's bloated $7M off the books next summer.

But maybe some kids step up and Torts gets this team to be a real prick to play against.

 

[Beef Invictus]

That's Jordan Hall, he's not a journalist, he's a shill.

Though it's a good sign that Deslauriers realizes fighting is not his ticket to PT:

Deslauriers mentioned that he has expanded his game.

"I've been working hard every summer just for that," he said. "The league is getting faster, I've been doing a lot of power skating. I know my age and everything. This league is getting younger and faster. So I know what I have to bring."

Fighting Seeler is the only reason he is here.

It's nice and also funny that he's more perceptive of the state of the game and its direction than Fletcher and Friends are, but they don't care if he's doing all that. It's not what they brought him here for. He is here to fulfill a role.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

At least he recognizes that the games are going to start off shitty and will be in need of momentum changes.

and when the other player skates away laffing with his gloves still on..

yah.....

 

[DancingPanther]

Fighting Seeler is the only reason he is here.

Fighting DeAngelo, actually. Protecting the young players from their own teammates. This is galaxy brain

 

[Beef Invictus]

Good spot? No. I'm not saying they are in a "good" spot.

(And before you make the obligatory "good spot" Fletcher reference, he was talking about with regard to expanding his analytics department, not talking about the roster.)

What I am saying is that they aren't in nearly as bad of a spot as all of the doom and gloom on here and Twitter would indicate.

I get it. We wanted a big name to be excited about and didn't get it. So now it's the end of the world. Natural human emotions.

But as much as I wanted Gaudreau just to stir up some interest, he really doesn't fit the Flyers' timeline and there's an appreciable chance it becomes an absolutely terrible anchor of a contract. He was under a point per game in his age 26 and 27 seasons. That's not a great sign when you're giving him a 7 year $10M per contract at age 29.

And priority 1 for this team was addressing the defense. Without Ellis, they were a complete abomination. I think they did a good job fixing their defense and feel pretty good about their top 6 (and York as a regular), and even their top 9 if you count Seeler as 7 and Zamula and Attard as 8 and 9 honing their games in the AHL.

They're getting their top 2 centers back and hopefully healthy.

Do people forget Couturier only played 20-some games and wasn't close to himself even in that short span?

Do people forget Hayes had multiple core surgeries, missed half the season, and didn't start looking like himself until the end of the season, which is common with such surgeries?

Frost has been hyped like crazy on this board for years. Now he's 23 with a clear roster spot, and not a peep. Shouldn't all of his backers be excited and acting like he'll be a real asset to the team?

It's endless negativity. But this team has (allegedly) one of the top young goalies in the league who is only about to turn 24; it has a solid defense corps; just no "star" power up front. But certainly plenty of opportunities for kids to step up and make their marks. I've seen teams like this come together before.

If they suck, they suck. They'll be in the Bedard sweepstakes, have their 2023 1st, and have 2 firsts in 2024. And they'll have JVR's bloated $7M off the books next summer.

But maybe some kids step up and Torts gets this team to be a real prick to play against.

Have you ever considered not lying about Frost?

 

[Curufinwe]

I saw a post about Neuvirth on the trade forum, and it let me to rediscover than Mase and Neuvy have already already been out of the league for more than three years. They both had to retire due to injuries aged 30. So now I'm at work on a Wednesday feeling sorry for two pro athletes who are 10 years younger than me and who made $30m/$18m in their NHL careers.

Mason's last NHL game was 4/3/2018 for Winnipeg vs Montreal

Neuvirth's last game was 1/3/2019 for Philly vs Carolina

 

[Hanover Fist]

Have you ever considered not lying about Frost?

Imagine this if you will
We are in a good spot because we have expanded our analytics department.
Then signing Risto,Dangelo and Deslauries

 

[mja]

Good spot? No. I'm not saying they are in a "good" spot.

(And before you make the obligatory "good spot" Fletcher reference, he was talking about with regard to expanding his analytics department, not talking about the roster.)

What I am saying is that they aren't in nearly as bad of a spot as all of the doom and gloom on here and Twitter would indicate.

I get it. We wanted a big name to be excited about and didn't get it. So now it's the end of the world. Natural human emotions.

But as much as I wanted Gaudreau just to stir up some interest, he really doesn't fit the Flyers' timeline and there's an appreciable chance it becomes an absolutely terrible anchor of a contract. He was under a point per game in his age 26 and 27 seasons. That's not a great sign when you're giving him a 7 year $10M per contract at age 29.

And priority 1 for this team was addressing the defense. Without Ellis, they were a complete abomination. I think they did a good job fixing their defense and feel pretty good about their top 6 (and York as a regular), and even their top 9 if you count Seeler as 7 and Zamula and Attard as 8 and 9 honing their games in the AHL.

They're getting their top 2 centers back and hopefully healthy.

Do people forget Couturier only played 20-some games and wasn't close to himself even in that short span?

Do people forget Hayes had multiple core surgeries, missed half the season, and didn't start looking like himself until the end of the season, which is common with such surgeries?

Frost has been hyped like crazy on this board for years. Now he's 23 with a clear roster spot, and not a peep. Shouldn't all of his backers be excited and acting like he'll be a real asset to the team?

It's endless negativity. But this team has (allegedly) one of the top young goalies in the league who is only about to turn 24; it has a solid defense corps; just no "star" power up front. But certainly plenty of opportunities for kids to step up and make their marks. I've seen teams like this come together before.

If they suck, they suck. They'll be in the Bedard sweepstakes, have their 2023 1st, and have 2 firsts in 2024. And they'll have JVR's bloated $7M off the books next summer.

But maybe some kids step up and Torts gets this team to be a real prick to play against.

We've gone over this before, but I didn't even want Gaudreau at this juncture, and I didn't want to trade a premium future asset to dump off JVR, so Chuck did some things right but it was out of incompetence, and then he turned around and did a bunch of stuff wrong as well, like signing a 4th liner for double an ELC with a 4 year term.

Our defense is wretched. Provorov is lost. Sanheim's headed out the door. Risto is Robert Hagg levels of bad. DeAngelo is what you think Ghost was. This organization thinks Seeler is a player because of a single fight. Attard's being coached to focus on the opposite of his strengths. Cam York's all we really have to look forward to and he isn't even guaranteed a spot!

We're endlessly negative because we have all been able to correctly see that the goddamned plane was crashing into the goddamned mountain for the last 3-4 years. We haven't been terrible because we're not tough enough to play against. We've been terrible because we lack skill, we lack speed, we lack an understanding of today's game, we lack an understanding of how to build a competitive roster in today's NHL, and we keep doubling and tripling down on a failed organizational philosophy. All we want is competent management. Give me that, and I'll start to get excited again.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yeah, it's not pessimism when you're always right about it.

 

[mja]

Yeah, it's not pessimism when you're always right about it.

Like f***ing clockwork.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

We've gone over this before, but I didn't even want Gaudreau at this juncture, and I didn't want to trade a premium future asset to dump off JVR, so Chuck did some things right but it was out of incompetence, and then he turned around and did a bunch of stuff wrong as well, like signing a 4th liner for double an ELC with a 4 year term.

Our defense is wretched. Provorov is lost. Sanheim's headed out the door. Risto is Robert Hagg levels of bad. DeAngelo is what you think Ghost was. This organization thinks Seeler is a player because of a single fight. Attard's being coached to focus on the opposite of his strengths. Cam York's all we really have to look forward to and he isn't even guaranteed a spot!

We're endlessly negative because we have all been able to correctly see that the goddamned plane was crashing into the goddamned mountain for the last 3-4 years. We haven't been terrible because we're not tough enough to play against. We've been terrible because we lack skill, we lack speed, we lack an understanding of today's game, we lack an understanding of how to build a competitive roster in today's NHL, and we keep doubling and tripling down on a failed organizational philosophy. All we want is competent management. Give me that, and I'll start to get excited again.

The defense is much better than you think.

I think Provorov will regain form under Torts and Shaw. They were good for Werenski, who was picked just one spot after Provorov.

DeAngelo isn't what I think Ghost was at the end of his Flyers' tenure. He's what Ghost used to be and what fans on this board think Ghost still is. Of course, with a better physical game.

Sanhero made huge strides, he's a terrific 2nd pair LHD right now, and I don't think he's on the way out whatsoever.

Risto is fine for a 2nd pair RHD. They're hard to find. Is he a flawed player? Yes. But does he have strengths? Also yes. Funny thing is, many fans hated him because of his metrics in Buffalo, but his advanced stats with the Flyers this season were better than Ghost's in AZ. And people still pine for Ghost.

York is a good one, and having him on your 3rd pair with a steady vet like Braun is about as good a situation as you could want out of a 3rd pair. Not even making $3M combined.

Will the forwards score enough? We'll see. A lot of it is going to depend on these draft picks from years ago stepping up.

 

[Beef Invictus]

That's just unrealistically optimistic, with a bunch of it being flat-out wrong.

 

[mja]

That's just unrealistically optimistic, with a bunch of it being flat-out wrong.

He can't possibly imagine a universe where he's not only wrong, but completely, totally, and entirely wrong.

 

[Beef Invictus]

He can't possibly imagine a universe where he's not only wrong, but completely, totally, and entirely wrong.

Yeah, complete with completely erroneous and useless use of stats to boot.

I have noticed just about all optimism relies heavily on players drastically and suddenly changing, and that being possible thanks to Tortorella apparently being a magical being. The expectations being leveled on Torts are getting ridiculous. I have no doubt when the illusion collapsed the players will be blamed rather than the incorrect expectations.

 

[deadhead]

Yeah, complete with completely erroneous and useless use of stats to boot.

I have noticed just about all optimism relies heavily on players drastically and suddenly changing, and that being possible thanks to Tortorella apparently being a magical being. The expectations being leveled on Torts are getting ridiculous. I have no doubt when the illusion collapsed the players will be blamed rather than the incorrect expectations.

Some of the "magic" is simply getting beyond the malaise of last season.

Some is the team has gradually changed, TK, Atkinson, Frost, Tippett, have speed, so do TDA and Sanheim, even Braun is at least an average skater on defense, there are no outright slugs anymore.

Torts impact will primarily be on players' approach, I suspect his reputation has a number of players working harder this off season on conditioning than years past, for example