2022/23 Roster Thread III: Run It Back!

[Bigkarl]

You're right about everything except Deslauriers, IMO.

You get Deslauriers, everyone else has absolutely no excuse.

You're also letting every team know you are playing tough. If you don't like it, deal with a top-3 fighter in the league.

They want the team to grow their balls back. That's how you do it.

Especially because it's going to be a young team. You want those youngsters to play knowing they've got one of the toughest guys in the league having their backs.

Do you mean deal with it by massacring them in possession every time he’s on the ice, scoring on the PP when he takes a penalty, or on the rare occasion, letting him punch some 3rd/4th liner’s face shield a few times?

 

[Flyerfan18]

Rebuild doesn't mean burning everything down. A distinction many seem unable to discern.

They've got a ton of young players vying for regular positions. They've got a good coaching staff who will rebuild a foundation from the ground up.

Rebuild does not equal tanking. It's not binary. This team will be better than you think this season, and then next year watch out. All without tanking, but with rebuilding.

Yep you can rebuild on the fly over several years. The worst kind of tear down is what Chicago is doing now. They are going to develop youth in a losing atmosphere with no hope. First wave gets used to losing and accept it and get moved out and then it repeats. I mean they gave up on Dach who could have been part of the rebuild.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yep you can rebuild on the fly over several years. The worst kind of tear down is what Chicago is doing now. They are going to develop youth in a losing atmosphere with no hope. First wave gets used to losing and accept it and get moved out and then it repeats. I mean they gave up on Dach who could have been part of the rebuild.

Yeah, nobody can win in an environment like that. Just look at Colorado.

 

[Flyerfan18]

Yeah, nobody can win in an environment like that. Just look at Colorado.

Ask the Sabres how it turned out with Eichel.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Yep you can rebuild on the fly over several years. The worst kind of tear down is what Chicago is doing now. They are going to develop youth in a losing atmosphere with no hope. First wave gets used to losing and accept it and get moved out and then it repeats. I mean they gave up on Dach who could have been part of the rebuild.

Exactly. Good luck being a Chi fan right now.
It’s the Hail Mary approach I derided previously.
Flyers are building a foundation. Not focusing on losing.
They may not be a playoff team this year, but they’re gonna battle & improve.
Replace JVR’s $7m next summer, let the good kids beat out the lesser kids.
Short rebuild.
Chicago could be screwed for a decade. But hey they hit Bedard, good for them. I just don’t think it’s a plan.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Ask the Sabres how it turned out with Eichel.

The Sabres problem is that they were badly managed, the method itself is only as good as the people executing it.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Exactly. Good luck being a Chi fan right now.
It’s the Hail Mary approach I derided previously.
Flyers are building a foundation. Not focusing on losing.
They may not be a playoff team this year, but they’re gonna battle & improve.
Replace JVR’s $7m next summer, let the good kids beat out the lesser kids.
Short rebuild.
Chicago could be screwed for a decade. But hey they hit Bedard, good for them. I just don’t think it’s a plan.

There is no foundation or plan here. Nothing is being built. Chuck is going for it in the feeble way he knows how.

He's doing the same things he's always done, I have zero idea why you believe it'll magically start working.

 

[deadhead]

Torts went from 28 points in 43 games (53 point pace) to 69, 93, 106 and a SC in TB
Torts went from 87 to 93 to 109 in NY.
Torts went from 76 in 75 games (83 point pace) to 108, 97, 98

Brind'Amour went from 83 to 99 in his first season as HC.
Q in Florida, I'm sure there are numerous other examples.

Nor did these teams have huge talent influxes that explain their rise.
Carolina for example added Hamilton, Ferland and Svechnikov but lost Lindbolm, Hanifin, and Skinner.
[Rask for Neiderreiter in Dec 2019]

The formula seems to be an underachieving team that gets a new HC that can impose structure and help players take their game up a notch.

 

[Flyerfan18]

Thompson allowed 4.31 GA/60 at ES

Frost allowed 2.56

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

Precisely why you can’t just rely on stats and why you have to look at the whole picture. Stats are a tool, not the end all.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Precisely why you can’t just rely on stats and why you have to look at the whole picture. Stats are a tool, not the end all.

The tool measures results on ice. When the results are that starkly different from what you think you're seeing, you're not doing well at seeing. That's an enormous gap.

 

[Redpath]

Even with the way Chuck has been retooling, his execution has been poor.

I am open to the idea of trading a few picks for a top 4 defensemen (I even actually like the DeAngelo acquisition in theory.) But don't pay a premium for a defenseman with baggage whose twin you paid to get rid of 12 months before.

I'd be open the idea of trading a 1st for a worthwhile defensemen. Just not a terrible one like Risto who you subsequently have to overpay.

Want to give a 4 year contract to a bottom 6 player? Justify it by believing that such a player is undervalued and can contribute something worthwhile to a competing team, not with cliche "He is tough to play against" platitudes.

If Chuck wanted to give up picks and cap space to externally build a "foundation," he should have done it in a lot savvier fashion. Instead he paid premiums to incrementally move the needle from where he even started in the first place.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

 

[deadhead]

In 2019-20 Frost got a 20 game shot, then Bunnaman got a 20 game shot, finally Thompson was brought in b/c AV had no confidence in either young center.

Frost was decent at home but horrible on the road, which suggests opposing HCs knew how to exploit matchups against him. He lacked strength to handle the puck in a crowd.

Last year he was held back by the shoulder, was mediocre in the AHL, then struggled when he came up. He didn't raise his game until he was paired with Tippett, I think b/c he lacks the vision of someone like G, and plays best when he plays with speed, and paired with Tippett he could push action. Cates was the perfect complement to those two with his high IQ and all around play.

Last 20 games, GF/GA, xGF%
Frost 10/6, 51.06%
Tippett 11/14, 52.99%
Cates 11/7, 56.84%

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I'm fighting for this team, even if I'm the only one.

Doesn't mean I think they'll be great this season, but I think they will progress and start to become a tough team to face.

Next season. Yeah. I think they'll be a pretty good team.

 

[GKJ]

I thought he wanted a second year or one way pay if he’s sent down to the minors.( no chance).
I actually wasn’t sure of dollar amount when you can walk away from it.

It’s over $4m I think, I think that was why the Leafs left Engvall unqualified.

 

[Beef Invictus]

In 2019-20 Frost got a 20 game shot, then Bunnaman got a 20 game shot, finally Thompson was brought in b/c AV had no confidence in either young center.

Frost was decent at home but horrible on the road, which suggests opposing HCs knew how to exploit matchups against him. He lacked strength to handle the puck in a crowd.

Last year he was held back by the shoulder, was mediocre in the AHL, then struggled when he came up. He didn't raise his game until he was paired with Tippett, I think b/c he lacks the vision of someone like G, and plays best when he plays with speed, and paired with Tippett he could push action. Cates was the perfect complement to those two with his high IQ and all around play.

Last 20 games, GF/GA, xGF%
Frost 10/6, 51.06%
Tippett 11/14, 52.99%
Cates 11/7, 56.84%

And Thompson was worse than both.

Frost was playing at a higher level well before Tippett got there. This has been debunked repeatedly. There wasn't a drop without Tippett either. He was consistent. There is no correlation between Tippett and Frost. All he needed was a secure shot without having to wonder if his next shift could be his last. Amazing how that helps.

 

[deadhead]

And Thompson was worse than both.

Frost was playing at a higher level well before Tippett got there. This has been debunked repeatedly. There wasn't a drop without Tippett either. He was consistent. There is no correlation between Tippett and Frost. All he needed was a secure shot without having to wonder if his next shift could be his last. Amazing how that helps.

BS.
Frost before Tippett:
35g xGF 44.21%, xGFrel -1.21, 1.25 pp/60 (5x5)
Frost after Tippett:
20g xGF 51.06%, xGFrel +4.75, 1.45 pp/60

 

[Beef Invictus]

BS.
Frost before Tippett:
35g xGF 44.21%, xGFrel -1.21, 1.25 pp/60 (5x5)
Frost after Tippett:
20g xGF 51.06%, xGFrel +4.75, 1.45 pp/60

Except the upward trend began before Tippett was there and his performance was the same away from Tippett. It just doesn't check out the second you take a serious look with proper context.

 

[bennysflyers16]

I am really still sitting here in disbelief that the "high-end skill aggressive retool" that Fletcher came up with was DeAngelo and Deslauriers

"Young" high end skill,,, Those 2 plus Brawny don't forget.

TDO potentially elite,, holy shit what a leap LOL

 

[VladDrag]

Attending Laughton's wedding via Ghost's wife's insta stories. Makes ya realize the Hakstol years were the glory days

What is the @?

 

[deadhead]

Except the upward trend began before Tippett was there and his performance was the same away from Tippett. It just doesn't check out the second you take a serious look with proper context.

Again, the facts contradict your opinions:
last 20 games:
Frost - Tippett xGF 56.24%
Frost w/o Tippett xGF 44.67%
Tippett w/o Frost 49.23%

 

[Striiker]

You won't get into the building

He could if he bribes someone with a bottle of Kens Lite Caesar.

 

[Rebels57]

Am I the only one that thinks a big trade is still yet to come?

I'd be surprised if Provorov and Konecny are both Flyers at the end of the summer. I still say one or both are gone, with the latter before the more likely.

Chucky's gonna get massacred in another trade for sure.

 

[Prongo]

When has DeAngelo ever been considered “elite” in any way? Even in the potential standpoint that isn’t the case. Some amazing fairytales being spun here.

This team is destined for a bottom 5 finish again. Ellis and Farabee not starting the year almost surely, the roster YoY is by far worse. Adding character isn’t going to win you shit if you can’t compete with other teams, which is right where this team is. Bottom dweller

Am I the only one that thinks a big trade is still yet to come?

I'd be surprised if Provorov and Konecny are both Flyers at the end of the summer. I still say one or both are gone, with the latter before the more likely.

Chucky's gonna get massacred in another trade for sure.

Once Fletcher is fired and Briere is the new GM, I think you will see the big moves next off season.

Provorov and Konency are for sure the top two candidates in the summer of 2023. Sanheim will have the rumors follow him just because he is a UFA after this year.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

When has DeAngelo ever been considered “elite” in any way? Even in the potential standpoint that isn’t the case. Some amazing fairytales being spun here.

This team is destined for a bottom 5 finish again. Ellis and Farabee not starting the year almost surely, the roster YoY is by far worse. Adding character isn’t going to win you shit if you can’t compete with other teams, which is right where this team is. Bottom dweller


Once Fletcher is fired and Briere is the new GM, I think you will see the big moves next off season.

Provorov and Konency are for sure the top two candidates in the summer of 2023. Sanheim will have the rumors follow him just because he is a UFA after this year.

If Dave Scott was smart (who the f*** knows if he's as dumb as we think he is), he would clean house and get the proper people on the job from outside the organization.