2022/23 Roster Thread III: Run It Back!

[Curufinwe]

MacEwen will play 70-82 games. He's no spare to them.

I don't think he will. In their minds they "upgraded" at his position with Deslauriers.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Frost was always seen as a top 9 player, he just never seized the opportunity.
It's amazing all the excuses made for him, but Kyrou and Thomas started on the bottom in St Louis and that didn't deter them.

2017-18: Sundqvist played 42 games, 9:03 at ES
2018-19 Thomas played 70 games, 11:39 at ES
2019-20: Kyrou played 28 games, 10:33 at ES

All played their way up the lineup the following seasons.

Frost just has to produce, with Torts there will be no excuses, he's started Wennberg at 21, Bjorkstrand at 21, Rychel at 21 (who failed to deliver), Dubois at 19, Milano at 21, Texier at 20.

Frost and Tippett are 23, at this point in their careers, put up or shut up (and pack your bags).

Boils down to this.

It's Frost's time. And Tippett's. They'll never have a bigger opportunity. If they can be the players they were supposed to be, the team will be surprisingly competitive. If they founder, au revoir, and hopefully the next wave of prospects actually can handle it.

 

[Beef Invictus]

No we haven’t. That’s the problem. We had to play a bunch last spring and Cates was the only stand out. York showed he was ready when he came back the second time as well. Rest didn’t show much except they aren’t NHL players yet. Frost had all kinds of chances and did diddly squat.

Frost was not better than Thompson?

 

[Rebels57]

I haven't been keeping up here as of late but I'm glad to hear that everyone is just as pissed off as I am.

I think I speak for all of us when I say that my biggest fear is that Tortorella gets this team to Round 1 of the playoffs, we exit early, and then we do the most typical Flyers management thing and trade more picks for an unsigned player, then proceed to overpay them and lock us into mediocrity even further.

Who am I kidding, we'll do that even when we don't make the playoffs!

Free Coots.

Don't you worry about that. There is no f***ing chance this team is making the Playoffs.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Don't you worry about that. There is no f***ing chance this team is making the Playoffs.

100% this team is a bottom dweller all season.

Torts aint fixing the shit roster problem!

aint no coach fixing what Flutch has assembled.

 

[Rebels57]

I am really still sitting here in disbelief that the "high-end skill aggressive retool" that Fletcher came up with was DeAngelo and Deslauriers

 

[Flyerfan4life]

I am really still sitting here in disbelief that the "high-end skill aggressive retool" that Fletcher came up with DeAngelo and Deslauriers

let those contracts sink in too..

 

[Ghosts Beer]

"Aggressive Retool" was a stupid statement.

And I bet Chuck rues the day it was said.

Everything Chuck said in the mid-season presser, where Scott was gung-ho, was way more measured than "aggressive." They weren't on the same page at all. Chuck held the company line, but his words were far more along the lines of "rebuild."

 

[bauer]

"Aggressive Retool" was a stupid statement.

And I bet Chuck rues the day it was said.

Everything Chuck said in the mid-season presser, where Scott was gung-ho, was way more measured than "aggressive." They weren't on the same page at all. Chuck held the company line, but his words were far more along the lines of "rebuild."

you don't trade away a bunch of 2nd/3rd round draft picks if you're trying to rebuild.

you don't sign an aging 4th liner to a 4 year deal if you're trying to rebuild.

you don't sign a dinosaur D in Braun to fill your top 6 (blocking youth) if you're trying to rebuild.

you don't bring in Torts if you're trying to rebuild.

they are not rebuilding. they are trying to win. every move they make supports that.

 

[Flyerfan18]

Frost was not better than Thompson?

Frost should have been in the minors most of the year. He looked scared, he rarely uses his talent and is worse defensively than Thompson was. Plus the diva rumours about him not being coachable. I expect him gone before Christmas and the team will be better off for it.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Frost should have been in the minors most of the year. He looked scared, he rarely uses his talent and is worse defensively than Thompson was. Plus the diva rumours about him not being coachable. I expect him gone before Christmas and the team will be better off for it.

Frost outperformed Thompson defensively by a wide margin. Thanks for confirming your assessment is unreliable.

What diva rumors? You accuse me of making stuff up. He's done everything they've asked about him. If they're getting mad because he isn't becoming a fundamentally different player like they want with all their prospects, that's their deficiency not his.

 

[Beef Invictus]

"Aggressive Retool" was a stupid statement.

And I bet Chuck rues the day it was said.

Everything Chuck said in the mid-season presser, where Scott was gung-ho, was way more measured than "aggressive." They weren't on the same page at all. Chuck held the company line, but his words were far more along the lines of "rebuild."

Every one of Fletcher's actions has been aggressive.

 

[Curufinwe]

Frost should have been in the minors most of the year. He looked scared, he rarely uses his talent and is worse defensively than Thompson was.

Thompson allowed 4.31 GA/60 at ES

Frost allowed 2.56

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

 

[Ghosts Beer]

you don't trade away a bunch of 2nd/3rd round draft picks if you're trying to rebuild.

you don't sign an aging 4th liner to a 4 year deal if you're trying to rebuild.

you don't sign a dinosaur D in Braun to fill your top 6 (blocking youth) if you're trying to rebuild.

you don't bring in Torts if you're trying to rebuild.

they are not rebuilding. they are trying to win. every move they make supports that.

Rebuild doesn't mean burning everything down. A distinction many seem unable to discern.

They've got a ton of young players vying for regular positions. They've got a good coaching staff who will rebuild a foundation from the ground up.

Rebuild does not equal tanking. It's not binary. This team will be better than you think this season, and then next year watch out. All without tanking, but with rebuilding.

 

[Starat327]

One of these days I'm going to find where Beef works and just pose as a flat earther outside the door to make him miss work for the day.

 

[Beef Invictus]

One of these days I'm going to find where Beef works and just pose as a flat earther outside the door to make him miss work for the day.

You won't get into the building

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

One of these days I'm going to find where Beef works and just pose as a flat earther outside the door to make him miss work for the day.

He works here. He gets paid $12/yr.

 

[deadhead]

you don't trade away a bunch of 2nd/3rd round draft picks if you're trying to rebuild.

you don't sign an aging 4th liner to a 4 year deal if you're trying to rebuild.

you don't sign a dinosaur D in Braun to fill your top 6 (blocking youth) if you're trying to rebuild.

you don't bring in Torts if you're trying to rebuild.

they are not rebuilding. they are trying to win. every move they make supports that.

A 2nd, 3rd and 4th for a potentially elite 26 year old D-man? That's a gamble you take when rebuilding, Carolina went with Burns b/c they're in win now mode (as they should be). It's only a two year deal, so it doesn't trap them.

Deslauriers is a head scratcher. Culture is one thing, gross overpay is another.

Braun makes sense for a rebuilding team, if Ellis is out, they lack any sort of veteran presence on the D-line, and Braun has been the "senior citizen" for the young D-men, so he's an easy fit in that role. $1M is easily buried or in the press box.

Torts has worked with two very young squads in TB and CBJ with success, and has developed numerous young players - he does cross swords with a few, but most, even the ones that have had their issues with him, sing his praises (see Dubois).

If they were trying to win now, they would have given away a 1st with JVR to sign JG. You do that when you're TB and you're pretty sure you're giving away a pick in the 20s, not when you know even with JG that pick could be in the top 10 in a deep draft.

 

[Starat327]

You won't get into the building

I dont need to get in. Just outside.

Also. Presumptuous of you to assume I dont have clearances...

He works here. He gets paid $12/yr.

Getting the most of his 12/year these days.

 

[trostol]

still some amazing takes in here

 

[Ghosts Beer]

A 2nd, 3rd and 4th for a potentially elite 26 year old D-man? That's a gamble you take when rebuilding, Carolina went with Burns b/c they're in win now mode (as they should be). It's only a two year deal, so it doesn't trap them.

Deslauriers is a head scratcher. Culture is one thing, gross overpay is another.

Braun makes sense for a rebuilding team, if Ellis is out, they lack any sort of veteran presence on the D-line, and Braun has been the "senior citizen" for the young D-men, so he's an easy fit in that role. $1M is easily buried or in the press box.

Torts has worked with two very young squads in TB and CBJ with success, and has developed numerous young players - he does cross swords with a few, but most, even the ones that have had their issues with him, sing his praises (see Dubois).

If they were trying to win now, they would have given away a 1st with JVR to sign JG. You do that when you're TB and you're pretty sure you're giving away a pick in the 20s, not when you know even with JG that pick could be in the top 10 in a deep draft.

You're right about everything except Deslauriers, IMO.

You get Deslauriers, everyone else has absolutely no excuse.

You're also letting every team know you are playing tough. If you don't like it, deal with a top-3 fighter in the league.

They want the team to grow their balls back. That's how you do it.

Especially because it's going to be a young team. You want those youngsters to play knowing they've got one of the toughest guys in the league having their backs.

 

[Redpath]

Let's not act like Chuck wasn't trying to be more aggressive.

San Filippo reported that Fletcher was looking to trade JVR. Friedman linked JVR to a number of teams. Chuck clearly struck out on trying to make Gaudreau work.

He had a chance to recoup assets at the deadline for Risto. He didn't.

The notion that Chuck wanted to take things slow is revisionist.

 

[BernieParent]

I am curious what people believe to be reasonable metrics for the prospects to prove that they deserve a roster spot over more veteran players. For Frost, is it simply points? Points + defensive results? Other? For the prospects looking to crack the roster, what is a reasonable sample size? What factors should be taken into consideration: linemates, TOI, opposition, etc.?

 

[Beef Invictus]

You're right about everything except Deslauriers, IMO.

You get Deslauriers, everyone else has absolutely no excuse.

You're also letting every team know you are playing tough. If you don't like it, deal with a top-3 fighter in the league.

They want the team to grow their balls back. That's how you do it.

Especially because it's going to be a young team. You want those youngsters to play knowing they've got one of the toughest guys in the league having their backs.

They can deal with the fighter by ignoring him. Fighting is purely optional. It's a dumb reason to devote a roster spot to a bad player.


It is not tough to play against bad players.

 

[deadhead]

I am curious what people believe to be reasonable metrics for the prospects to prove that they deserve a roster spot over more veteran players. For Frost, is it simply points? Points + defensive results? Other? For the prospects looking to crack the roster, what is a reasonable sample size? What factors should be taken into consideration: linemates, TOI, opposition, etc.?

Depends on the player.

Frost has to be adequate on defense, but anchoring an "energy line" a holy terror on the forecheck, not so much hitting people but setting up linemates. Cates and Tippett need to get to the puck, win puck battles and feed Frost and the D-men. All three need to back check consistently.

Allison just has to play the way he did two years ago, using his size, speed and shot to makes plays at both ends of the ice.

Laczynski has to show he can skate well enough to get back on defense and to enable him to use his IQ and offensive skills.

Attard has to show he can play with "controlled aggression" on offense and use his size and athleticism to be effective in his D-zone.

Zamula has to show he can compensate for a lack of bulk in the D-zone with positioning, anticipation and stick work.