2022/23 Roster Thread III: Run It Back!

[flyersnorth]

Well, the first thing is you are able to use JVR's $7M next off-season. So that's a good start.

You hope the young guys really step up. We'll see. It's their time. And Gauthier, for better or worse, will be part of that team next season.

They're a young team. They just need those young guys to step up. This season and next.

I think it has to be a different GM. Chuck will not use that money wisely.

Can Briere - with Fletcher as President - get the job done differently?

Can Gauthier become a bona fide #1C?

Can Farabee and York and Hart take the next steps?

Will the stiffs (Deslauriers, Brown, MacEwen, Seeler, Connauton) block the young guys who legitimately have talent (Allison, Brink, Laczynski, Cates, York, Attard, Zamula)?

I hope the answer to all those questions is yes.

Wait. Except the last one. That should be a no.

 

[deadhead]

Zamula won't play.

Torts MO says Zamula will play if he deserves to play, in Torts' eyes.
He has a different standard than some people here, skill isn't enough, but he's not against it.

But unlike AV and Lavi, who did have veteran favorites, every report on Torts is he'll bench veterans for mistakes just as fast as he'll bench rookies (maybe faster, b/c he will use them to make the point that everyone is accountable).

What will be interesting to watch is whether Torts has mellowed to the point where he doesn't burn himself out and his team.
Doubtful that he'll become a laid back players coach - but he may have learned a modicum of tact and to turn down the intensity a notch.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Torts MO says Zamula will play if he deserves to play, in Torts' eyes.
He has a different standard than some people here, skill isn't enough, but he's not against it.

But unlike AV and Lavi, who did have veteran favorites, every report on Torts is he'll bench veterans for mistakes just as fast as he'll bench rookies (maybe faster, b/c he will use them to make the point that everyone is accountable).

What will be interesting to watch is whether Torts has mellowed to the point where he doesn't burn himself out and his team.
Doubtful that he'll become a laid back players coach - but he may have learned a modicum of tact and to turn down the intensity a notch.

Torts uses the players he's given by the GM. When Fletcher leaves Zamula in the AHL to "marinate" then he will stay there.

We went through this exact conversation with multiple prospects last year. Coaches have limited authority.

 

[deadhead]

Torts uses the players he's given by the GM. When Fletcher leaves Zamula in the AHL to "marinate" then he will stay there.

We went through this exact conversation with multiple prospects last year. Coaches have limited authority.

Right now with Fletcher up shit's creek, Torts merely has to make a point at a press conference.
Torts is going to run this show once TC starts, if you think Fletcher is going to get into a pissing match with Torts . . .
They're already paying AV for 2 more years, Torts has 4x4, Fletcher is on thin ice. You figure out who'll survive.

Zamula may get sent down because Torts may not think he's ready, not because Fletcher has some preference - the HC decides who he's going to play.

However, right now there's no room for Zamula unless he really impresses in TC, he'd play over Seeler as the 6th D-man, but he won't be the 7th D-man (i.e. sit in the press box).

Provorov - TDA
Sanheim - Risto
York - Braun
Seeler

If Zamula or Attard impress Torts, Braun becomes the 7th D-man and Seeler goes to LHV.
But Zamula will have to do it at RHD, b/c York will have a lock on 3LW, in preparation to move up if Sanhiem/Provorov is dealt.

 

[scumpup]

Right now with Fletcher up shit's creek, Torts merely has to make a point at a press conference.
Torts is going to run this show once TC starts, if you think Fletcher is going to get into a pissing match with Torts . . .
They're already paying AV for 2 more years, Torts has 4x4, Fletcher is on thin ice. You figure out who'll survive.

Zamula may get sent down because Torts may not think he's ready, not because Fletcher has some preference - the HC decides who he's going to play.

However, right now there's no room for Zamula unless he really impresses in TC, he'd play over Seeler as the 6th D-man, but he won't be the 7th D-man (i.e. sit in the press box).

Provorov - TDA
Sanheim - Risto
York - Braun
Seeler

If Zamula or Attard impress Torts, Braun becomes the 7th D-man and Seeler goes to LHV.
But Zamula will have to do it at RHD, b/c York will have a lock on 3LW, in preparation to move up if Sanhiem/Provorov is dealt.

Or just play one of zamula or attard. We know this is what will happen, it's obvious. But even if theyre not nhl ready its not like we're going to win anyway. If they can play without being an injury liability they should be getting ice time.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Right now with Fletcher up shit's creek, Torts merely has to make a point at a press conference.
Torts is going to run this show once TC starts, if you think Fletcher is going to get into a pissing match with Torts . . .
They're already paying AV for 2 more years, Torts has 4x4, Fletcher is on thin ice. You figure out who'll survive.

Zamula may get sent down because Torts may not think he's ready, not because Fletcher has some preference - the HC decides who he's going to play.

However, right now there's no room for Zamula unless he really impresses in TC, he'd play over Seeler as the 6th D-man, but he won't be the 7th D-man (i.e. sit in the press box).

Provorov - TDA
Sanheim - Risto
York - Braun
Seeler

If Zamula or Attard impress Torts, Braun becomes the 7th D-man and Seeler goes to LHV.
But Zamula will have to do it at RHD, b/c York will have a lock on 3LW, in preparation to move up if Sanhiem/Provorov is dealt.

Tortorella doesn't work like that. Your mental image of Tortorella is completely out of line with 20 years of evidence.

Seeler already impressed Tortorella. He's on the roster. They are forcing York to go to development camp. They think he's a prospect, not a player. Fletcher openly stated that playing youth last year was a mistake. With his flood of garbage contracts he seeks to avoid having to play any one of them he isn't forced to.

Every year you are wrong about this and we are right. You do not understand how this team thinks, and when they show you they think very differently you still defend it.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I think it has to be a different GM. Chuck will not use that money wisely.

Can Briere - with Fletcher as President - get the job done differently?

Can Gauthier become a bona fide #1C?

Can Farabee and York and Hart take the next steps?

Will the stiffs (Deslauriers, Brown, MacEwen, Seeler, Connauton) block the young guys who legitimately have talent (Allison, Brink, Laczynski, Cates, York, Attard, Zamula)?

I hope the answer to all those questions is yes.

Wait. Except the last one. That should be a no.

We'll see. Don't get me wrong. I was disappointed in Chuck, as much as I still think he's an intelligent guy. But this team was hamstrung by JVR and Ellis this summer more than I realized. And I think he's mostly drafted very well. Let's see how this team does the first couple months of the season. They aren't set up to implode. Actually set up this season better than I thought and pretty darn well for next offseason.

We're all guilty of emotional thinking. Let's see how the season unfolds. If they're a mess after two months, I have no problem saying so long to Chuck.

 

[captainpaxil]

Torts uses the players he's given by the GM. When Fletcher leaves Zamula in the AHL to "marinate" then he will stay there.

We went through this exact conversation with multiple prospects last year. Coaches have limited authority.

I think there's a difference between zamula and say attard and then hogberg is in a different situation as well.
Sanheim and risto are our second pairing. The one people complain about is the one who didn't marinate.

 

[Flyerfan18]

Remember when you said the Avalanche were an easy first round out?

I 'memba.

Yep then they got Manson

 

[deadhead]

Tortorella doesn't work like that. Your mental image of Tortorella is completely out of line with 20 years of evidence.

Seeler already impressed Tortorella. He's on the roster. They are forcing York to go to development camp. They think he's a prospect, not a player. Fletcher openly stated that playing youth last year was a mistake. With his flood of garbage contracts he seems to avoid having to play any one of them he isn't forced to.

What flood?
Braun is $1M. The others are two way deals, which means they're likely to end up at LHV.
Delauries is the only serious contract, and yes, it's stupid, but not very expensive to bury, cheaper than Weise.

And no, you don't play kids just to play them, they can get plenty of experience at LHV.
Just because a player is a "prospect," doesn't mean he ready or able to play in the NHL.
Most "prospects" end up with a cup of coffee before becoming AHL regulars (see Marody).
if a prospect is ready, it'll be pretty obvious after a few games.

 

[Striiker]

This is a guy who loves offense and definitely won't show insane bias towards "hard" players over far superior skilled players.

 

[Flyerfan18]

Sorry, but I think you are just wrong with this take. On top of the stats from this playoff that other's have posted, it's also the idea of having a bona fide super star in your lineup that teams need to be aware of and game plan for at all times, potentially opening up space for other players to elevate their game. The Flyers have not had a legit superstar that opposing teams feared going into a game or playoff series since #88.

So that’s why he went to Columbus because virtually no one wanted him. Ok everyone can have their own take

 

[Striiker]

Yep then they got Manson

Without Manson do they even get past the first round? I doubt it.

That's why he won the Conn Smythe.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Yep then they got Manson

Hang this in the Louvre.

 

[deadhead]

This is a guy who loves offense and definitely won't show insane bias towards "hard" players over far superior skilled players.

Who cares what he says, a more reliable indicator is what he does as HC.
I mean can you think of a more skilled player than Panarin?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Without Manson do they even get past the first round? I doubt it.

That's why he won the Conn Smythe.

They're renaming the CS to The Manson

 

[Beef Invictus]

Who cares what he says, a more reliable indicator is what he does as HC.
I mean can you think of a more skilled player than Panarin?

Panarin's production jumped once he left Tortorella.

 

[CerpinTaxt]

Before I throw in the towel and support a total blow it all up, I want to see how Desnoyers, Foerster and Wisdom do at the professional level. From what he's shown in junior and international play, Desnoyers seems to have what it takes to do well at this game. Second line potential. Foerster and Wisdom looked to be players as well based on the performance in the AHL when one considers their age at the time that they were there. Again, not first liners but more than bottom six players. If these three can live up to these expectations, all is not lost. An extended Sanheim along with the other defensemen under contract can be a solid black end.
I get it that there isn't a star power forward for the future on the roster. However tanking for Bedard doesn't work for me. Even if the Flyers ended up in the bottom three of the league through a tank job, the lottery would screw them over. It always has.

Unfortunately for the young guys, Chuck wont give them a chance on the roster over useless plugs because of *checks notes* lack of size, not hard to play against, dont try hard. Also, its about roles. Cant have skilled guys on the bottom of the lineup skilling it up. Nope need to grind them down and wear them out while they beat the team on the scoreboard.

Ill eat my left foot if anyone of those players makes the opening night roster.

 

[wankstifier]

(Inter)National media are jumping on this fwiw:

The Flyers are a mess with no direction

They are a team that seems to have no idea what they are and what direction they need to go in.

nhl.nbcsports.com

From the Comcast subsidiary, too

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Why are so many fans, who have been HUGE Morgan Frost fans, so down on this upcoming season?

I mean, Frost is 23. Has 77 NHL games under his belt. Isn't he a great prospect? Shouldn't he be a lock for at least 50 points by now?

I just don't get the pessimism from the Frost fans. He clearly gives the Flyers 3 formidable centers with Couturier and Hayes, right?

 

[SuchySays]

Why are so many fans, who have been HUGE Morgan Frost fans, so down on this upcoming season?

I mean, Frost is 23. Has 77 NHL games under his belt. Isn't he a great prospect? Shouldn't he be a lock for at least 50 points by now?

I just don't get the pessimism from the Frost fans. He clearly gives the Flyers 3 formidable centers with Couturier and Hayes, right?

Frost is a bust.

 

[Icedog2735]

So that’s why he went to Columbus because virtually no one wanted him. Ok everyone can have their own take

Or because the Flyers failed go get him due to their own ineptitude and, if media reports are to be believed, there were family reasons about him not choosing to go to New Jersey or the Islanders. Due to his self-imposed, geographic requests, there were few teams in the running to get him in the first place; very different from "virtually no one wanting him". And quite honestly, zero teams should have been in the running to begin with because he wanted to play in Philadelphia, period, and was waiting for the team to sign him. But yes, everyone can have their own take.

 

[deadhead]

Panarin's production jumped once he left Tortorella.

Uh, no.
pp/60, 5x5
CHI, 2.08, 2.14
CBJ 2.27, 2.80
NY 3.28, 3.04, 2.53

xGF/60:
CHI 2.19, 2.29
CBJ 2.94, 2.91
NY 2.83, 2.24, 2.51

 

[trostol]

once more..there are some takes in this thread

 

[deadhead]

Torts bottom six usage:
2015-16 first season in CBJ: ES TOI (came in after 7 games)
7th Wennberg #14 (21) 12:59
8th Calvert (26) 12:54
9th Karlsson #53 (23) 12:05
10th Bourque (34) 10:11 [49g]
10th Rychel #19 (21) 9:28 [32g, flop]
11th Campbell (32) 8:44
Cameos
Bjorkstrand #89 (20) 12g
Anderson #95 (21) 12g
Clarkson (31) 23g
Boll (29) 30g

Bottom 2 D-men
Tyutin (32) 15:28
Prout (25) 14:52
Goloubef (25) 43g, Bodnarchuk (27) 16g, Connauton (25) 27g, Falk (27) 24g

2016-17:
7th Bjorkstrand (21) 12:23
8th Anderson (22) 11:44
9th Karlsson (24) 11:32
10th Calvert (27) 11:30
11th Gagner (27) 11:15
12th Hartnell (38) 10:38
13th Sedlak #158 (23) 9:06

Murray (23) 16:00
Nutivaara (22) 13:01 Quincey TDL (31) 14:08
Harrington (23) 22g, Prout (26) 15g