2022/23 Roster Thread III: Run It Back!

[Fire Tortorella]

At least the Flyers should be fun/interesting to rebuild in EHM...

 

[FlyerNutter]

Chuck needs to get his ass moving on an extension for Sanheim. If he can't get that done now, it's time to move him. Going into the season with him unsigned will end up in a complete loss. Calgary is smarting from losing JG, perhaps they would do a Sanheim for Hanifin or Andersson with some reasonable extras tossed in on both sides. Can't lose Sanheim for nothing.

I’m curious what the rationale is for keeping Sanheim though.

I’m quite opposed to it. It’s not because I don’t like the player, but we’ve tried once already retain our “good players” while trying to rebuild.

He turns 27 this season, and this team needs to commit to maximizing opportunity for draft capital/ensuring a higher pick.

 

[mja]

Chuck needs to get his ass moving on an extension for Sanheim. If he can't get that done now, it's time to move him. Going into the season with him unsigned will end up in a complete loss. Calgary is smarting from losing JG, perhaps they would do a Sanheim for Hanifin or Andersson with some reasonable extras tossed in on both sides. Can't lose Sanheim for nothing.

Oh, my sweet summer child…..

 

[wankstifier]

I’m curious what the rationale is for keeping Sanheim though.

I’m quite opposed to it. It’s not because I don’t like the player, but we’ve tried once already retain our “good players” while trying to rebuild.

He turns 27 this season, and this team needs to commit to maximizing opportunity for draft capital/ensuring a higher pick.

Low mileage, little injury history, lack of PP1 time. His next contract should be pretty manageable and there’s plenty of upside even at his age

 

[landsbergfan]

Low mileage, little injury history, lack of PP1 time. His next contract should be pretty manageable and there’s plenty of upside even at his age

right, but it's upside that a smart team will capitalize on...SET HIM FREE

 

[kudymen]

Out of boredom I was checking who was drafted by Chuck Fletcher in Johnny Gaudreau's draft year...
...
...
...
...
...
Nick Seeler

 

[renberg]

Before I throw in the towel and support a total blow it all up, I want to see how Desnoyers, Foerster and Wisdom do at the professional level. From what he's shown in junior and international play, Desnoyers seems to have what it takes to do well at this game. Second line potential. Foerster and Wisdom looked to be players as well based on the performance in the AHL when one considers their age at the time that they were there. Again, not first liners but more than bottom six players. If these three can live up to these expectations, all is not lost. An extended Sanheim along with the other defensemen under contract can be a solid black end.
I get it that there isn't a star power forward for the future on the roster. However tanking for Bedard doesn't work for me. Even if the Flyers ended up in the bottom three of the league through a tank job, the lottery would screw them over. It always has.

 

[wankstifier]

right, but it's upside that a smart team will capitalize on...SET HIM FREE

Yeah, the Fletcher also doesn’t have room for him, so he’ll sell low at the deadline, assuming he’s fired next offseason

 

[flyersnorth]

If the draft is as deep as advertised...being in the top 10 is still a great place to be. Your scenario has them still in selling position with the potential to pick up more 1st rounders.

It sucks not getting the generational guys but if played right, next years draft could still be a big part of the rebuild.

For sure, a top 10-12 pick is fine and will help.

But the opportunity was right there for the Flyers to consider not brining in DeAngelo and re-signing Ristolainen. We all witnessed how awful the team was.

It's the untenable middle ground that is maddening. When Charlie O called out Chuck about the "aggressive retool", it started to sound more like a rebuild ("stabilize, depth players, waiver-exempt guys for LHV").

So why make the move for DeAngelo then? Why give up three draft picks to do it? Why not recoup draft picks at the deadline by moving Ristolainen? Why sign a FOURTH LINE grinder to a FOUR YEAR contract? Heck, why even hire Tortorella?

He's just so schizophrenic and his moves all feel disconnected from reality and any sort of coherent strategy.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

(Inter)National media are jumping on this fwiw:

The Flyers are a mess with no direction

They are a team that seems to have no idea what they are and what direction they need to go in.

nhl.nbcsports.com

 

[Ghosts Beer]

So, let's make a few assumptions.

The roster is healthy-ish, aside from Ellis. He's dead.

With Torts, and a healthy Coots, Hayes, and Hart - we probably get, what, 7-8 more wins?

That still keeps the team comfortably below .500, but would bump them to about 75-77 points.

That would place us 23rd overall, just sneaking into the draft lottery for top pick.

It's almost like the worst possible outcome. I think only 11th would be worse - not in the draft lottery, but nowhere near competitive.

I wish I could fast forward through half a dozen seasons.

Let's break it down.

Offense is something like:

Farabee-Couturier-Konecny
JVR-Hayes-Atkinson
Cates-Frost-Tippett
Deslauriers-Laughton-Allison/Laczynski

Foerster, Desnoyers, and Brink all challenging for spots. MacEwen maybe, too. Particularly for the Frost, Tippett, Allison, Laczynski spots. All up for grabs. Torts will pick the ones who earn it.

Not an explosive offensive group. They need young guys to step up. Hopefully some do. If Frost doesn't take advantage this year, forget about him. But the group isn't a lost cause. There's upside in there.

Defense:
Provorov-DeAngelo
Sanheim-Risto
York-Braun
Seeler-Attard

That ain't bad at all. And if somehow Ellis is able to play, it's pretty damn good.

Hart
Sandstrom (poor Fedotov)

Face it. All depends on Hart. He's supposed to be a top young netminder. Play like it.

I've seen plenty of worse teams than this. There's youth here who could really step up. There's a good coach. There's some attitude.

Easily as much here as Torts went 34-33-0-8 with in 75 games his first season in CBJ.

I expect an over .500 team that could actually develop some cohesiveness, fight, and have a couple young players make big steps.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Low mileage, little injury history, lack of PP1 time. His next contract should be pretty manageable and there’s plenty of upside even at his age

I agree with all of that.

I see high potential value in a trade, and the subsequent “commitment” to a higher pick - under a good GM - as greater than retaining him.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Out of boredom I was checking who was drafted by Chuck Fletcher in Johnny Gaudreau's draft year...
...
...
...
...
...
Nick Seeler

 

[flyersnorth]

Let's break it down.

Offense is something like:

Farabee-Couturier-Konecny
JVR-Hayes-Atkinson
Cates-Frost-Tippett
Deslauriers-Laughton-Allison/Laczynski

Foerster, Desnoyers, and Brink all challenging for spots. MacEwen maybe, too. Particularly for the Frost, Tippett, Allison, Laczynski spots. All up for grabs. Torts will pick the ones who earn it.

Not an explosive offensive group. They need young guys to step up. Hopefully some do. If Frost doesn't take advantage this year, forget about him. But the group isn't a lost cause. There's upside in there.

Defense:
Provorov-DeAngelo
Sanheim-Risto
York-Braun
Seeler-Attard

That ain't bad at all. And if somehow Ellis is able to play, it's pretty damn good.

Hart
Sandstrom (poor Fedotov)

Face it. All depends on Hart. He's supposed to be a top young netminder. Play like it.

I've seen plenty of worse teams than this. There's youth here who could really step up. There's a good coach. There's some attitude.

Easily as much here as Torts went 34-33-0-8 with in 75 games his first season in CBJ.

I expect an over .500 team that could actually develop some cohesiveness, fight, and have a couple young players make big steps.

I agree with you that it could turn out much better than expected on the ice.

I think where I have the biggest challenge is this - mediocrity this year, then what?

How will they acquire the elite talent needed to truly form a core around which to build? It will not be through trades - Fletcher has not been able to do that. Period. He is not good at making NHL transactions.

Draft? They will need a lot of excellent scouting and a metric ton of luck in finding gems and maximizing their development, especially if they're not drafting in the top 5.

So yes, they could be much better than we think, and it would definitely provide something interesting to watch.

But is it sustainable, and can they build a truly competitive team without snapping up at least a few elite talents?

 

[wankstifier]

I agree with all of that.

I see high potential value in a trade, and the subsequent “commitment” to a higher pick - under a good GM - as greater than retaining him.

Also, doubt that re-signing him is on the table. Maybe he likes the Flyers despite how poorly they’ve handled him. Have a feeling he tests free agency

I think you’ll be disappointed in a trade. He needs to be glued to PP1 and given every chance to succeed. He’ll be doing some heavy lifting and Provorov is still on the team, so I doubt he’ll have much opportunity to increase his value

 

[Flyerfan4life]

I think it is possible Chuck chose to not go after Gaudreau because of size and the dinosaur's belief in a culture change back to tougher, heavy players.

100% hes trying to rebuild the BSB, even thou the league has moved so far past that style of play..

stilll hes gunna build it anyways...

maybe hes thinking of the old film line " if you build it they will come"

 

[BernieParent]

Tortorella is the hero we need and deserve at this point. Throw up his hands and say this team stinks and ride off into the sunset.

Do we not think that Tortorella had some say in this past week's events?

 

[flyersnorth]

(Inter)National media are jumping on this fwiw:

The Flyers are a mess with no direction

They are a team that seems to have no idea what they are and what direction they need to go in.

nhl.nbcsports.com

Great opening salvo. National ridicule is good.

There are teams in the NHL that know they are Stanley Cup contenders and know exactly what to do to make themselves better.​

​

There are also teams in the NHL that know they are not very good, need to tear things down to the foundation and aggressively rip things apart for future assets.​

​

And then there are teams like the Philadelphia Flyers — a team that seems to have no idea what they are and what direction they need to go in.​

 

[Beef Invictus]

Fletcher really made himself look worse by lying about not even pursuing JG

 

[GKJ]

DATE	OPPONENT	TIME	TV	TICKETS
Fri, 10/14	vsNJ	2:00 AM		Tickets as low as $51
Sat, 10/15	vsVAN	11:00 PM		Tickets as low as $51
Wed, 10/19	@TB	3:00 AM		Tickets as low as $91
Thu, 10/20	@FLA	2:30 AM		Tickets as low as $35
Sun, 10/23	@NSH	3:00 AM		Tickets as low as $44
Mon, 10/24	vsSJ	2:00 AM		Tickets as low as $39
Fri, 10/28	vsFLA	2:00 AM		Tickets as low as $39
Sun, 10/30	vsCAR	2:00 AM		Tickets as low as $51
Wed, 11/2	@NYR	1:00 AM		Tickets as low as $85
Thu, 11/3	@TOR	1:00 AM		Tickets as low as $123

With coots not 100% and missing farabee and ellis, I'd say there's a non-zero chance the flyers start the season goin 0-for-10. Would that be enough to get management fired?

If you’re a bottom 5 team, you could go on a run of 10 losses in a row at any time, sometimes multiple times in a season as we learned. So it’s more like, how often does Hart either steal a game, or the opponent just doesn’t have it. How many ‘schedule losses’ does the other team have like when they have a back to back at the end of a 4-game road trip over 6 days. What other team is in a deathspiral? That’s what you’re looking for when it comes to wins. Torts often has teams ready to start the season as well, but that was AV’s MO too.

 

[Diaper Mask Bandits]

After thinking about it, I'm going to think positively about things.
I'm going to hope they set them themselves up for an unintentional tank for a couple of seasons.

As long as they don't trade their firsts, the team should have a couple top 5 picks coming up.

They're due for a good break, maybe they'll get a franchise player.... or should I dare hope, maybe the stars will align and they'll be a franchise player in 23 and 24

Chuck Fletcher may have done Flyer fans a favor by destroying any flexibility over the next couple seasons

 

[flyersnorth]

Fletcher really made himself look worse by lying about not even pursuing JG

I can't recall the exact wording, but I think it was such that he could argue he's not lying.

"We are not in on the sweepstakes" I believe he said. If he doesn't make an offer to Gaudreau because he can't clear cap space, even if he wanted to, he can legitimately say they are not in on the sweepstakes.

Semantics, I know. But to the fanbase, semantics shamantics. If feels like he's lying straight to our faces.

 

[deadhead]

I think the real changes will occur in late fall, after Torts has had the change to evaluate his players first hand, and they him.
Sanheim may want to wait and see how he feels about Torts before signing up long-term
But most of the players who'd really rub Torts the wrong way are gone.

JVR will probably be moved ASAP, b/c unless he's hit the gym hard this summer, his half-assed effort at times will get him benched.
TK will cross Torts, but his speed and intensity will also cause Torts to have a man crush on him, Torts will ride him and TK will be better for it.
Hayes will be challenged to get into better shape and play 200 feet, or else.
Farabee, Couts, Atkinson, Laughton should have no issues.
Cates, Frost, Tippett may become Tort favorites if they play like they did the end of the year, Torts won't ask Frost to be physical, just skate hard on the backcheck and get into position and stick check.
Deslauriers says he's working on his skating this summer, must of checked out Tort's reputation.
Laczynski's lack of speed may be an issue, Allison is a perfect fit if he can get healthy.
Wisdom and Desnoyers will quickly become Tort favorites, Foerster if he's in better shape, have no clue about Lycksell.

Provorov checks the right boxes with Torts, but if he goes "prima donna," he's in for a rude awakening.
Sanheim shouldn't have problems with Torts.

TDA and Torts could be a match made in hell, or TDA's salvation, he has all the talent, but needs a coach to ride him hard about at least playing adequate defense - but if he responds he's looking at big money down the road.

Risto and Torts will be fun to watch, Savard blossomed under Torts, he may see Risto as someone with similar skills who needs tough love to play a more disciplined game. If he can't reach Risto, Torts should be able to mold Attard, and he won't hesitate to move him up and Risto down, contract be damned.

York, no problem, Zamula, he won't ask him to hit anyone, but to block shots.
Braun will have no problem with Torts.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Zamula won't play.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I agree with you that it could turn out much better than expected on the ice.

I think where I have the biggest challenge is this - mediocrity this year, then what?

How will they acquire the elite talent needed to truly form a core around which to build? It will not be through trades - Fletcher has not been able to do that. Period. He is not good at making NHL transactions.

Draft? They will need a lot of excellent scouting and a metric ton of luck in finding gems and maximizing their development, especially if they're not drafting in the top 5.

So yes, they could be much better than we think, and it would definitely provide something interesting to watch.

But is it sustainable, and can they build a truly competitive team without snapping up at least a few elite talents?

Well, the first thing is you are able to use JVR's $7M next off-season. So that's a good start.

You hope the young guys really step up. We'll see. It's their time. And Gauthier, for better or worse, will be part of that team next season.

They're a young team. They just need those young guys to step up. This season and next.