2022/23 Roster Thread II: Worth Every Penny

[LegionOfDoom91]

We all know the Flyers need to go scorched earth, but if they wanted to go back to the bubble Giroux-Voracek years, everything about the last 12-18 months should've been about stockpiling assets for a Gaudreau retool, if that's what they envisioned. Not gut the roster, but aim for max assets, youth, picks, optionality. Gaudreau could be erased from existence, and they still should've done that.

Par for the course, it's all so embarrassingly slapdash. The Flyers have already invested so much wasteful term and salary -- along with picks stretching to 2024 -- that they can't move for value, while already taking a bath to do so, that they can't simply go scorched earth. Not without the creative vision they lack. If they get Gaudreau, a top 10-15 player, I guess you can stave off the sunk cost fallacy. If they don't? Then what the f*** are they even doing spending more and more assets, in recent past and near future, along with the opportunity cost of not cashing in on assets? This is a bottom 10 roster without Gaudreau, but they're not even asking for the check from the waiter yet.

Obviously they shouldn’t have ever traded for Ristolainen in the first place. But your past two deadlines your top trade pieces were Laughton & Ristolainen. You could have gotten 1st+ for both guys on top of the cap flexibility. But you opted to sign both long term to UFA deals. You had two opportunities to ultimately sell high on two depth players at best (albeit one of them is terrible & more expensive in Ristolainen) which would have given you assets & capspace to weaponize on a player like Gaudreau.

You have/had enough depth prospects to move on from these guys at those points. But you took the path of least resistance & it burnt you. Now you might miss on Gaudreau. You’re in cap hell even without him which is ironically forcing your hand to ice young guys in the bottom of your lineup by default this year anyway.

 

[Bigkarl]

We all know the Flyers need to go scorched earth, but if they wanted to go back to the bubble Giroux-Voracek years, everything about the last 12-18 months should've been about stockpiling assets for a Gaudreau retool, if that's what they envisioned. Not gut the roster, but aim for max assets, youth, picks, optionality. Gaudreau could be erased from existence, and they still should've done that.

Par for the course, it's all so embarrassingly slapdash. The Flyers have already invested so much wasteful term and salary -- along with picks stretching to 2024 -- that they can't move for value, while already taking a bath to do so, that they can't simply go scorched earth. Not without the creative vision they lack. If they get Gaudreau, a top 10-15 player, I guess you can stave off the sunk cost fallacy. If they don't? Then what the f*** are they even doing spending more and more assets, in recent past and near future, along with the opportunity cost of not cashing in on assets? This is a bottom 10 roster without Gaudreau, but they're not even asking for the check from the waiter yet.

The only way they could successfully pull off this Ill-conceived “aggressive retool” and try to be even remotely relevant next season is to acquire a JG or better level player. We’ve known that at least since the wheels fell of last season. And they still managed to f*** it up. JG is practically falling into their laps for them, and there’s a real chance they can’t get it done. The winning million dollar lotto ticket to their stupid plan is in their hands, and they traded it for a stick of gum.

 

[Starat327]

I'm sure they'll take him with Florida's first and pur top 10 protected one. Sure. And Chuck will happily pay it because hes a doofus.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Take it for what it is worth

Zawaski has hit on some things with Hawks at times but isn't 100% reliable

I could see them do it. They mostly have a team right now and a 1 year pull on JVR to bring in a really low pick could be big for the Flyers.

 

[JABEE]

Every tanking or team with cap space wants to take Fletcher’s lunch money

 

[Bigkarl]

Every tanking or team with cap space wants to take Fletcher’s lunch money

And when JVR is sitting around 20 goals at the deadline, they’re going to trade him with some retention for another pick

 

[Taijuan Fedotov]

I think Gaudreau ends up back in Calgary tonight just piecing all the different info out there.

What are the odds Gaudreau is just using the Flyers to just drive up his price? Negotiation 101 type of stuff.

 

[Hextallent63]

if johnny Gaudreau is turning down 10plus from calgary, he aint coming here

 

[Adam Warlock]

I could see them do it. They mostly have a team right now and a 1 year pull on JVR to bring in a really low pick could be big for the Flyers.

Get a first to take on JVR... let him rack up points playing with kane... trade him at the deadline for another 1st.

Blackhawks doing it right.

 

[Rebels57]

Get a first to take on JVR... let him rack up points playing with kane... trade him at the deadline for another 1st.

Blackhawks doing it right.

Chicago makes a lot of sense. Davidson is eager to make moves like this as a new GM. If he's the only one involved and Johnny Hockey signing depends on it then he will get that Florida 2024 1st for sure. If Arizona and Buffalo are involved, then the cost to move JVR will be less.

Dont rule out Fletcher moving the 2023 pick but with Top 10 or Top 5 protection either. That could ultimately be the compromise.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

if johnny Gaudreau is turning down 10plus from calgary, he aint coming here

That is the exact reason why he is coming here. It’s just the first hurdle. Once we’re past that 8 year deadline, what reason do we have to believe that he wouldn’t come here?*

*Not getting into Flyers cap situation

 

[Hisch13r]

if johnny Gaudreau is turning down 10plus from calgary, he aint coming here

He’d likely take a bit of a discount to be a Flyer. If it’s too big of a discount I could see him as a Devil but if they’re even relatively close he’d be a Flyer

 

[Diaper Mask Bandits]

ironically during the pre cap days the flyers were not aggressive at all.
correct me if I'm wrong but roenick was the only major signing and that was caused by the lindros fiasco.

I remember eagerly awaiting free agency every off season only to be disappointed

they did have a high overall salary, however I think there's a misconception that were buying players.

in fact I think they held restraint. people were calling for them to bury the rest of the league during lindros days but snider didnt want to do it. I think I recall morganti saying that on wip

 

[BillDineen]

Bill and Charlie questioning. John H to NJD and Comcast might just fire Chuck Thursday.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Have I said I loathe Chuck Fletcher recently?

I loathe Chuck Fletcher

 

[JABEE]

The media is finally turning on the team.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

ironically during the pre cap days the flyers were not aggressive at all.
correct me if I'm wrong but roenick was the only major signing and that was caused by the lindros fiasco.

I remember eagerly awaiting free agency every off season only to be disappointed

they did have a high overall salary, however I think there's a misconception that were buying players.

in fact I think they held restraint. people were calling for them to bury the rest of the league during lindros days but snider didnt want to do it. I think I recall morganti saying that on wip

There wasn’t a thing as unrestricted free agency until 1995 in the NHL. Up until the 2006 CBA the UFA age was 31 years old.

So player movement in general wasn’t really based around UFA as much. Trades were more so the way of movement in the league back then. There was no salary cap or revenue sharing then. So majority of the league struggled to pay their best players when the on ice product went into the tank. That’s when the rich teams like the Flyers would swoop in & buy these players through trade for considerably less in assets than they actually were worth.

 

[FlyerNutter]

The media is finally turning on the team.

It’s beautiful. Really beautiful.

Myrtetus will defend everything to his last breath, but there are weaknesses showing in the ranks.

 

[wankstifier]

I guess three years behind is better than never

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

One of the years in the early 2000’s in the pre-2006 salary the Rangers had a roster payroll over like $90M. It was when guys Lindros, Bure, Holik, etc. were there making crazy money.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

ironically during the pre cap days the flyers were not aggressive at all.
correct me if I'm wrong but roenick was the only major signing and that was caused by the lindros fiasco.

That is true but don't forget they went and signed Chris Gratton to offer sheet as RFA which at time was dramatic/aggressive move that sent shockwaves around league

Also, Vanbiesbrouck was big signing back in day

But it is true while Wings for instance made some major splashes via FA along with teams like Maple Leafs and others the Flyers seemed to prefer development and trades to bring in talent

 

[Curufinwe]

OMG, that Holik contract was insane.

 

[Danko]

Just took a look at our roster on capfriendly. Omg.

Straight trash. One player doesn’t fix this. We need like 3 or 4 forwards alone.

 

[Diaper Mask Bandits]

That is true but don't forget they went and signed Chris Gratton to offer sheet as RFA which at time was dramatic/aggressive move that sent shockwaves around league

Also, Vanbiesbrouck was big signing back in day

But it is true while Wings for instance made some major splashes via FA along with teams like Maple Leafs and others the Flyers seemed to prefer development and trades to bring in talent

I forgot about the Gratton thing. The signing and then the reversal of the move was absurd.

Everyone knew the Flyers were signing a goalie and everyone assumed it was Cujo and then of course they signed Beezer and disappointed everyone.

The Flyers, red wings, devils, avs, and stars were basically the 5 team power structure then but it seemed like the other 4 were more aggressive. And course the Flyers were lowe team on that totem pole.

And the aggressive moves they did make were idiotic like trading firsts for Falloon and then Prospal and a first for Daigle. They never made the right move.
Their big defensive upgrade during the Lindros era was Luke Richardson but they traded Yushevich a couple of yrs earlier because Clarke didn't like him

and I agree, it seemed like they were more into player development than they are during this era when you have to have player development.

The ultimate point is that this team hasn't been well managed since at least Clarke's first tenure as GM during the 80's/ After looking at the drafts and the trades, I'd say Bob Mccammon was the last competent manager in this organization. However, Mccammon was just before my time ( I started watching in 85) and I remember hearing people bash Mccammon..... maybe that was typical Philly impatience.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

OMG, that Holik contract was insane.

Barnaby talked about talked that team & Holik’s contract on a podcast before. They obviously weren’t good & Holik was the worst contract on the team by a good bit. He said he felt bad for Holik in a way because it painted such a large bullseye on his back. He said Holik would make jokes about it that he was a 2-3C in NJ not a 1C like his contract suggests in NY.