2022/23 Roster Thread II: Worth Every Penny

[LegionOfDoom91]

My guess is they pay to trade JVR, and pay to trade Lindblom or buy him out.

There's your $10M to sign Gaudreau.

Smart GMs get depressed assets on bargain deals and maximize value.

Fletcher gets overvalued assets after their peak and pays through all orifices to get it done.

I posted that list of Fletch transactions so far as Flyer GM... and there were maybe 2-3 decent to good transactions. This weekend didn't help that ratio, and in all likelihood it will get worse next week.

IN:
DeAngelo
Risto

OUT:
Ghost
Hagg
1st 2021
2nd 2021
2nd 2022
2nd 2024
3rd 2023
4th 2024
7th 2022

Like, what the actual f?

The thing I showed above though is that they’re already in a tight spot in terms of making a cap compliant roster for opening night. JvR & Lindblom would wash out Gaudreau’s $10M but that’s a 2 for 1 swap & you don’t really have the space as to get to 12 forwards even on the cheap end. They’re probably gonna have to play their opening night game with like 10F 6D & 2G at the rate they’re going before they can put Farabee & Ellis on LTIR to get some cap relief. I don’t know if Ellis ever comes back but when Farabee does you’re likely gonna have to make a later trade to work out the cap space. So you’re essentially kicking the can down the road.

 

[trostol]

The thing I showed above though is that they’re already in a tight spot in terms of making a cap compliant roster for opening night. JvR & Lindblom would wash out Gaudreau’s $10M but that’s a 2 for 1 swap & you don’t really have the space as to get to 12 forwards even on the cheap end. They’re probably gonna have to play their opening night game with like 10F 6D & 2G at the rate they’re going before they can put Farabee & Ellis on LTIR to get some cap relief. I don’t know if Ellis ever comes back but when Farabee does you’re likely gonna have to make a later trade to work out the cap space. So you’re essentially kicking the can down the road.

that's the speciality..i mean look how long we've been waiting for a proper rebuild

 

[Curufinwe]

This is how Tampa did it, you can use LTIR on Day 1.

News: - 2021-22 23 Man Rosters

:ducks 23 -SET- FORWARDS (14) Max Comtois Nicolas Deslauriers Ryan Getzlaf Derek Grant Benoit Olivier Groulx Adam Henrique Max Jones Isac Lundestrom Mason McTavish Rickard Rakell Jakob Silfverberg Sam Steel Troy Terry Trevor Zegras DEFENCE (7) Jamie Drysdale Cam Fowler Hampus Lindholm Josh...

hfboards.mandatory.com

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

So I was listening to ASF I think the show was Thursday night during the draft. So they didn’t trade/sign DeAngelo yet but the rumors were surfacing. So he went into it & how that pertains to Ellis he said that would be an obvious public sign that they’re not confident in Ellis getting back to start the season obviously.

He said the reason for still be coy with Ellis’ situation publicly is that there still is grey area & obviously leverage around the league with teams & agents. But he did say the belief behind the scenes is that Ellis has a degenerative hip issue. Ellis is going to continue to rehab with the mindset of playing again this year. Whether that happens or not is anybody’s guess. He said there’s a possibility given the nature of the injury that Ellis never plays again but that’s essentially a bridge they’ll cross later if it gets to that point. Ellis & the Flyers’ mindset is he’ll play again at some point, they’re not going to throw the towel in this early in regards to a retirement.

His co-host asked him about friction between Ellis & the Flyers. He said there was definitely disagreements on whether to get surgery or not. The Flyers wanted surgery while Ellis didn’t want to. But he essentially said Ellis is married to the Flyers as nobody wants him & his contract at this point around the league. So if he is unhappy there’s not really much he can do.

 

[bobbythebrain]

So I was listening to ASF I think the show was Thursday night during the draft. So they didn’t trade/sign DeAngelo yet but the rumors were surfacing. So he went into it & how that pertains to Ellis he said that would be an obvious public sign that they’re not confident in Ellis getting back to start the season obviously.

He said the reason for still be coy with Ellis’ situation publicly is that there still is grey area & obviously leverage around the league with teams & agents. But he did say the belief behind the scenes is that Ellis has a degenerative hip issue. Ellis is going to continue to rehab with the mindset of playing again this year. Whether that happens or not is anybody’s guess. He said there’s a possibility given the nature of the injury that Ellis never plays again but that’s essentially a bridge they’ll cross later if it gets to that point. Ellis & the Flyers’ mindset is he’ll play again at some point, they’re not going to throw the towel in this early in regards to a retirement.

His co-host asked him about friction between Ellis & the Flyers. He said there was definitely disagreements on whether to get surgery or not. The Flyers wanted surgery while Ellis didn’t want to. But he essentially said Ellis is married to the Flyers as nobody wants him & his contract at this point around the league. So if he is unhappy there’s not really much he can do.

Anything said about Risto's degenerative brain issue?

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I took a quick look and didn't see this posted. Apologies if I missed it.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I took a quick look and didn't see this posted. Apologies if I missed it.

Is that credible?

I do wonder what happens with Provorov now with DeAngelo. Charlie has eluded that Provorov has been the road block to others getting a shot on the PP because the team is worried about how he will respond. Well you just made a nice investment in assets & contract in DeAngelo. You don’t employ DeAngelo to not give him the top PP spot & this isn’t a situation like Gostisbehere where they eventually soured on him opening the door for Provorov to grab that spot.

 

[wankstifier]

I took a quick look and didn't see this posted. Apologies if I missed it.

What disappointing, overpaid, youngish forwards are available? Guessing they’ll pigeonhole themselves to only consider one for ones.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Is that credible?

I do wonder what happens with Provorov now with DeAngelo. Charlie has eluded that Provorov has been the road block to others getting a shot on the PP because the team is worried about how he will respond. Well you just made a nice investment in assets & contract in DeAngelo. You don’t employ DeAngelo to not give him the top PP spot & this isn’t a situation like Gostisbehere where they eventually soured on him opening the door for Provorov to grab that spot.

Hell if I know.

My best guess is that almost every D minus TDA and Risto is available on some level.

 

[flyersnorth]

If Ellis is on LTIR they will have quite a lot of space. Even before doing anything with JVR or Lindblom.




It’s not really that complicated. Half the league was on LTIR last season.

What's the upper limit in the summer? 10% over the cap?

So the Flyers could be about $8M and change over the cap, but have to be cap compliant on day 1 of the season, prior to LTIR, IIRC.

How do they accomplish that?

 

[trostol]

Honestly..I think if he was available..someone would take Provy even with that cap hit

 

[flyersnorth]

Is that credible?

I do wonder what happens with Provorov now with DeAngelo. Charlie has eluded that Provorov has been the road block to others getting a shot on the PP because the team is worried about how he will respond. Well you just made a nice investment in assets & contract in DeAngelo. You don’t employ DeAngelo to not give him the top PP spot & this isn’t a situation like Gostisbehere where they eventually soured on him opening the door for Provorov to grab that spot.

Doesn't that just create a hole on the left side instead?

Sanheim
York
Zamula

doesn't inspire a whole lot of confidence.

It also seems at odds with the win-now mantra.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Doesn't that just create a hole on the left side instead?

Sanheim
York
Zamula

doesn't inspire a whole lot of confidence.

It also seems at odds with the win-now mantra.

A lot of what they have done recently doesn’t make sense & often contradicts previous actions. They’re making it up as they go & they need capspace.

Remember in DeAngelo beyond the fact they traded similar player in Gostisbehere attached with a second rounder a year earlier. This is a GM that has constantly mentions defense & culture as a problem yet goes ahead with this move for DeAngelo.

Logic need not to apply here. York is their guy & the guy I think they ultimately got pegged for that for LH #1 all situation guy. So they could get aggressive with that now.

I think Provorov’s vastly overrated personally so to me there is a legitimate pathway to ejecting from a bad stock with him. He’s just not worth the usage he gets & likely would be a point of contention to decrease in his role/minutes. So I rather trade & get out while he still has value. But I don’t necessarily think that’s the Flyers reasons. I just think they’re desperate for cap & back to the just throw shit at all the way & see what sticks.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

We got a GM that likely knows he has to make the playoffs next year to keep his job past it otherwise he’s fired. We got advisors like Clarke & Holmgren who only know a chaos style of management so they’re co-signing this bullshit as it’s all they know how to operate.

So yeah I think we’re very much back to era where it’s spend everything you got now & move things around even if it’s essentially a rob Peter to pay Paul principle.

Not that I think Fletcher is good but as sad as it is in general sense he might have the most filter between everybody in that front office & now there’s absolutely no reason for him to sit back any.

 

[flyersnorth]

A lot of what they have done recently doesn’t make sense & often contradicts previous actions. They’re making it up as they go & they need capspace.

Agreed. It sounds and feels a lot like the Homer days. And not the good Homer days.

Remember in DeAngelo beyond the fact they traded similar player in Gostisbehere attached with a second rounder a year earlier. This is a GM that has constantly mentions defense & culture as a problem yet goes ahead with this move for DeAngelo.

Yup. All this talk about character, and you bring in DeAngelo?

Now, if they signed him as a free agent last year *instead* of the Risto debacle, then maybe that makes sense. He's a local kid, grew up a Flyers fan, so good chance he would have picked the Flyers over the Canes.

Stick him on the 2nd pairing with Sanheim.

But now? With Ellis most likely out? He's your 1st pairing D?

Logic need not to apply here. York is their guy & the guy I think they ultimately got pegged for that for LH #1 all situation guy. So they could get aggressive with that now.

I think Provorov’s vastly overrated personally so to me there is a legitimate pathway to ejecting from a bad stock with him. He’s just not worth the usage he gets & likely would be a point of contention to decrease in his role/minutes. So I rather trade & get out while he still has value. But I don’t necessarily think that’s the Flyers reasons. I just think they’re desperate for cap & back to the just throw shit at all the way & see what sticks.

I get why they would want to trade Provy. I have no problem with him. He's got his flaws, but he can be a plus player when he's in the right situation - which itself is kind of a problem. What is it now, four seasons of searching for a partner for Provy?

The challenge is if you trade him, and want to get say Gaudreau or another high-priced UFA forward, how are you replacing him? It won't be with a bona fide top pairing guy, it will be internally or with a bottom-feeder.

So Sanheim gets top pair with... DeAngelo?

I'm with you - they don't seem to have any coherent plan.

 

[FLYguy3911]

I'll believe they trade Provorov when I see it, but as of now, assuming York is on the PP, they will have ~$15 million in cap tied to defensemen who don't contribute on the PP. That is an absurd number. Something has to give.

 

[GKJ]

I took a quick look and didn't see this posted. Apologies if I missed it.

I don’t think it’s a surprise but I don’t know about this source. A Provorov trade has to open the door to bring another defensemen in

 

[BiggE]

Cuck probably thinks Seeler is an upgrade for Provorov

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

I just don’t see any scenario where JG lands here. What do they have to offer besides being local. A terrible team that isn’t close to being able to talk about playoff hockey. NJ has more to offer. They actually have some skilled forwards and young talent to build around. Hopefully he stays in Calgary and It puts a end to the silliness

 

[Hisch13r]

I just don’t see any scenario where JG lands here. What do they have to offer besides being local. A terrible team that isn’t close to being able to talk about playoff hockey. NJ has more to offer. They actually have some skilled forwards and young talent to build around. Hopefully he stays in Calgary and It puts a end to the silliness

Chance to play with his friends on his boyhood team. I don't think it's the smart move for either sides but Fletcher doesn't operate under any sort of logic and Johnny might just really want to be a Flyer. It's certainly possible.

 

[Magua]

I'll believe they trade Provorov when I see it, but as of now, assuming York is on the PP, they will have ~$15 million in cap tied to defensemen who don't contribute on the PP. That is an absurd number. Something has to give.

DeAngelo PP1, York-Provorov PP2, Risto netfront.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Hell if I know.

My best guess is that almost every D minus TDA and Risto is available on some level.

Bruh, use the Septic Tank Thread.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

Camp roster.

https://cms.nhl.bamgrid.com/images/assets/binary/334905668/binary-file/file.pdf

Rochette is somewhat interesting. Former top prospect that never got picked. Primeau’s son is a decent college player who might get interest. Tinling was a big scorer in midget and then went to Vermont a year early where they don’t score. Pehrson was York’s partner at Michigan. Perets had amazing numbers for Quinnipiac but may just be a system goalie.

I don’t see Ginning or Andrae. Pretty lackluster roster.

Flyers developmental camp invite Jacob Gaucher is the brother of Ducks 2022 1st round pick (22nd ovr) Nathan Guacher.

Guess the Flyers are not signing St. Ivany either since he isn’t on the Dev. Camp roster either.

 

[Beef Invictus]

If DeAngelo wasn't a head case, you make this trade without hesitation.
I mean if we trade Sanheim for these same picks, you'd be livid.

Problem is DeAngelo has to have truly reformed and become a model citizen for this trade to make sense.
And that's one hell of a gamble.

No, you definitely hesitate before making the trade either way with his massive defensive deficiencies.

All Ive heard from you are tales of woe about Ghost, and now you're embracing this guy? What a joke.

 

[Beef Invictus]

You know exactly what I mean.

2014-18 Flyers accumulated 8 1sts, 6 2nd, out of that Provorov, Sanheim, TK, Farabee, Hart. Maybe Allison some day.
Problem was late 1st and 2nds aren't going to build a championship, at best they'll add quality depth. Unless you're really lucky.

Either "go way or go all the way in" - if you're not going to rebuild, "let's go crazy."


Problem is what are the odds you pick the 3 or 4 players in the 2nd round who end up as quality players?
It's not like the other 31 teams are all idiots (OK, a few, but they tend to get fired after a while).

The problem is the Flyers turned talented players into dirt with poor development. Other teams try to avoid that. It makes them better.