2022/23 Roster Thread II: Worth Every Penny

[FLYguy3911]

TK #16

J.T. Miller climbs to No. 2 on Trade Targets board, Canucks still far apart on extension

The Canucks and Miller’s camp are not close on a potential contract extension, fueling trade talk ahead of Thursday night’s...

www.dailyfaceoff.com

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Whether or not that is true is irrelevant. Fletcher's inability to get any value out of him is relevant and will remain relevant for as long as he exists in this organization, because it's part of the overall trend spanning his entire career where he never gets good value for anything.

Forget his career, forget he is a bad GM as none of that matters in this instance.

His hands were tied in this situation. Why is that so hard to grasp? Any objective person can see this to be the case. He only had 1 team to make a deal with.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Forget his career, forget he is a bad GM as none of that matters in this instance.

His hands were tied in this situation. Why is that so hard to grasp? Any objective person can see this to be the case. He only had 1 team to make a deal with.

The thing to think about for me anyway, is why his hands were tied. We will likely never know, but I’m not sure this whole - Giroux only set on Florida business is accurate.

Does one believe a team like Vegas, Tampa, the NYR, Detroit, or Colorado wouldn’t be able to work with Giroux to work out better options?

I’m more in the line of thinking that good guy Chuck has as much social/persuasive talent as a beet. Again, my own fun speculation.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Lol, trading the best player in franchise history for a B prospect and an asset that is "not as valuable right now, but the value will only increase over time [3 to 4 years]" is a f***ing joke and Fletcher is a joke and this organization is a joke

Fletcher made a basketball style trade, except he only got one first round pick. Any way you slice it, it's a fleece. A Fletcher special. Nevermind Fletcher's grimey koala brain is the main reason the team was in a position that forced a Giroux trade in the first place.

Chuck was involved in the Lindros trade?

The thing to think about for me anyway, is why his hands were tied. We will likely never know, but I’m not sure this whole - Giroux only set on Florida business is accurate.

Does one believe a team like Vegas, Tampa, the NYR, Detroit, or Colorado wouldn’t be able to work with Giroux to work out better options?

I’m more in the line of thinking that good guy Chuck has as much social/persuasive talent as a beet. Again, my own fun speculation.

It has been confirmed he only wanted to go to Florida has it not?

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Yup. If Florida are a Conference Finals team in 2023-24 then that pick will be 29-32.

The best we could realistically hope for is that Florida just miss the playoffs in 23-24, and get a pick between 11 and 16.

Philadelphia Flyers Acquire:​

Owen Tippett
2023 3rd round pick (FLA)
2024 1st round pick (FLA) [Conditional]*
*Conditions: If the pick is a top 10 selection, Philadelphia will instead receive Florida's 2025 1st round pick.



Those reports don't make any sense, though. Giroux is old and chasing a Cup, so why would he agree in advance to come back to Philly next season?

Who said he is chasing a cup? If he was he would have wanted out long ago.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Chuck was involved in the Lindros trade?


It has been confirmed he only wanted to go to Florida has it not?

Confirmed by who though, a front office that has kind of shown it likes to leak things for it’s own benefit? Who did it benefit for everyone to know that Giroux “tied their hands”?

I’ll stand on the idea that a more savvy GM might have been able to work with Giroux a little more even if he was more set on Florida. Speculation, for the sake of conversation.

 

[deadhead]

Confirmed by who though, a front office that has kind of shown it likes to leak things for it’s own benefit?

I’ll stand on the idea that a more savvy GM might have been able to work with Giroux a little more even if he was more set on Florida. Speculation, for the sake of conversation.

And get what? Colorado wasn't prepared to offer significantly more (2023 1st, Barron and ???).
What was Boston prepared to offer?

People have this fantasy that 34 year old Giroux on a rental deal was going to get some tremendous haul, like an elite prospect such as Byram. That's just fantastical thinking. Teams that think they're going for the Cup package draft picks, 2nd tier prospects who are years away and maybe a veteran for cap purposes. They don't include top prospects who are already contributing to their success.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Really. B/c his success so far isn't that impressive, 2 1st rd exits, 1 2nd rd exit.

Now they face a serious cap crunch after trading away their 2022, 2023 and 2024 1st rd picks, plus their 2022 2rd and 2023 3rd and 2024 2nd. Talk about mortgaging the future.

They have $3M in cap room with G, Accari, Marchment, Chariot, Nutivaara and Hagg all UFAs this summer. Loustarenin is a RFA.
Next year they'll have $28M in cap room, but Huberdeau and Weegar are UFAs.

Wheeler ranked their talent pipeline at #23 in January, they since traded #8 Smilanic.

And Zito just hired Maurice as his HC.

We'll find out how good Zito is the next two years.

Remember when you said this about Sakic?

He blows Fletcher out of the water. He can maintain that team at an average level.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Forget his career, forget he is a bad GM as none of that matters in this instance.

His hands were tied in this situation. Why is that so hard to grasp? Any objective person can see this to be the case. He only had 1 team to make a deal with.

He tied his own hands. Like he always does.

 

[FlyerNutter]

And get what? Colorado wasn't prepared to offer significantly more (2023 1st, Barron and ???).
What was Boston prepared to offer?

People have this fantasy that 34 year old Giroux on a rental deal was going to get some tremendous haul, like an elite prospect such as Byram. That's just fantastical thinking. Teams that think they're going for the Cup package draft picks, 2nd tier prospects who are years away and maybe a veteran for cap purposes. They don't include top prospects who are already contributing to their success.

Let’s go along with this line of thinking. Care to bet money (so to speak), that Fletcher didn’t even explore the idea of attaching a pick or prospect of his own with Giroux to better the return?

Tippet looks like a middle 6’er at best, and that’s being generous. What they walked away with from the Giroux deal was indeed a failure, and I’m sure Fletcher all too happily took the easiest deal presented.

 

[usahockey22flyers]

Was just trying to get as creative as I could on capfriendly this AM....the Scott Laughton 3M cap hit really stares you in the face. SMH

 

[Beef Invictus]

Confirmed by who though, a front office that has kind of shown it likes to leak things for it’s own benefit? Who did it benefit for everyone to know that Giroux “tied their hands”?

I’ll stand on the idea that a more savvy GM might have been able to work with Giroux a little more even if he was more set on Florida. Speculation, for the sake of conversation.

Confirmed by Briere, who is given insane levels of trust for no reason.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Was just trying to get as creative as I could on capfriendly this AM....the Scott Laughton 3M cap hit really stares you in the face. SMH

He's worth it though the length is bad. If ever the was someone who could have been traded for a great return but a competent GM, it's him.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Confirmed by Briere, who is given insane levels of trust for no reason.

The Flyers Peregrin Took is a fraud.

 

[usahockey22flyers]

He's worth it though the length is bad. If ever the was someone who could have been traded for a great return but a competent GM, it's him.

Agreed. Do you remember the rumored asking price/value at the 2021 deadline? I honestly don't remember

 

[deadhead]

The only Flyer player who could have been moved for a great return was Couts a year or two ago.
That's it.
34 year old G was not a premier asset.
Voracek with his contract had negative value, so did Ghost.

Now if you want to blow it up, Provorov, Sanheim, TK would get you a good return, but nothing spectacular, none are elite.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

He tied his own hands. Like he always does.

According to you because he didn't cave into what Giroux wanted. If anything Zito should be called out for giving up as much as he did.

 

[deadhead]

Agreed. Do you remember the rumored asking price/value at the 2021 deadline? I honestly don't remember

The best you could have got for Laughton was a late 1st rd pick.
Our three picks in the 20s have been TK, Rubtsov and Frost, so that's your gamble v a known quantity who is still only 28.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

The only Flyer player who could have been moved for a great return was Couts a year or two ago.
That's it.
34 year old G was not a premier asset.
Voracek with his contract had negative value, so did Ghost.

Now if you want to blow it up, Provorov, Sanheim, TK would get you a good return, but nothing spectacular, none are elite.

Laughton would have got a nice return 2021 deadline. 1st 20-30 range easily.

Was just trying to get as creative as I could on capfriendly this AM....the Scott Laughton 3M cap hit really stares you in the face. SMH

Not a Laughton fan though his production is in line with salary. Maybe even underpaid.

The best you could have got for Laughton was a late 1st rd pick.
Our three picks in the 20s have been TK, Rubtsov and Frost, so that's your gamble v a known quantity who is still only 28.

It is a gamble you take. Guys like Laughton should not get 5 year deals. Can use that pick to trade as well. Laughton is anther in a long line of players who seem to tolerate losing.

 

[Beef Invictus]

According to you because he didn't cave into what Giroux wanted. If anything Zito should be called out for giving up as much as he did.

According to media with sources, not according to me.

 

[Starat327]

Now i get to watch Beef argue with himself more. Cool, this day is going swell.

 

[deadhead]

Laughton would have got a nice return 2021 deadline. 1st 20-30 range easily.

Not easily. Look up comparable trades.
Jarnkrok only garnered a 2nd and 3rd.
A 1st rd pick in the 20s was the best case outcome.

 

[kudymen]

Now i get to watch Beef argue with himself more. Cool, this day is going swell.

Wait, you already blocked that burner account that is arguing here as well?

 

[DancingPanther]

Odds are no but it’s possible. Barkov and Ekblad will be nearing 30 and have already shown they have trouble staying healthy, Huberdeau will be 32 and Reinhart is a UFA in 2 seasons. The most likely best case scenario for the Flyers is a repeat of what St Louis went though when they got the Farabee pick.

"Odds are no but it's possible" is the wrong conclusion to use pursuant to a transaction as a GM

 

[blackjackmulligan]

According to media with sources, not according to me.

No according to you. Accept the fact he only had one team to make a deal with. We know you cant as you cant be objective for this transaction.

Not easily. Look up comparable trades.
Jarnkrok only garnered a 2nd and 3rd.
A 1st rd pick in the 20s was the best case outcome.

Goodrow and Coleman got a 1st +.