2022/23 Roster Thread II: Worth Every Penny

[Curufinwe]

Who said he is chasing a cup? If he was he would have wanted out long ago.

He said.



Giroux on chasing a Cup with the Cats: “That’s the reason I’m here. I’m here to win. I’m here to help the team win. That’s the reason this trade happened. I think this team has a chance to go far in the playoffs. … I think I can help this team. It’s time to go to work.”

 

[deadhead]

Laughton would have got a nice return 2021 deadline. 1st 20-30 range easily.

Not easily. Look up comparable trades.
Jarnkrok only garnered a 2nd and 3rd.
A 1st rd pick in the 20s was the best case outcome.

No according to you. Accept the fact he only had one team to make a deal with. We know you cant as you cant be objective for this transaction.


Goodrow and Coleman got a 1st +.

So you want to claim Laughton is as good as Coleman?
Coleman got a 1st and Nolan Foote (#27-2019, with a decent but not great D+1 season)
The Goodrow deal was for a 1st but with a 3rd (top of the round) to TB.

 

[Young Sandwich]

He said.



Giroux on chasing a Cup with the Cats: “That’s the reason I’m here. I’m here to win. I’m here to help the team win. That’s the reason this trade happened. I think this team has a chance to go far in the playoffs. … I think I can help this team. It’s time to go to work.”

 

[blackjackmulligan]

He said.



Giroux on chasing a Cup with the Cats: “That’s the reason I’m here. I’m here to win. I’m here to help the team win. That’s the reason this trade happened. I think this team has a chance to go far in the playoffs. … I think I can help this team. It’s time to go to work.”

lip service, what do you expect him to say. He should have asked out of Philly long ago if he wanted to try to win a cup. Even funnier when you consider he really had very little interest in leaving Philly, then wanting to come back. Yeah the cup is real important to him.

Not easily. Look up comparable trades.
Jarnkrok only garnered a 2nd and 3rd.
A 1st rd pick in the 20s was the best case outcome.

So you want to claim Laughton is as good as Coleman?
Coleman got a 1st and Nolan Foote (#27-2019, with a decent but not great D+1 season)
The Goodrow deal was for a 1st but with a 3rd (top of the round) to TB.

Laughton is comparable. He would have got a first at the 2021 deadline with the way he was playing.

 

[Curufinwe]

lip service, what do you expect him to say.

He spoke the truth, you just can't handle it.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

He spoke the truth, you just can't handle it.

Sure he did indeed. At that moment. Yeah my day is ruined now, cant handle it.

 

[Curufinwe]

"Who said he is chasing a cup?"

 

[BrindamoursNose]

He said.



Giroux on chasing a Cup with the Cats: “That’s the reason I’m here. I’m here to win. I’m here to help the team win. That’s the reason this trade happened. I think this team has a chance to go far in the playoffs. … I think I can help this team. It’s time to go to work.”

So, here's the deal. I think it's more nuanced than just him saying he ONLY wants to win a Cup now.

If you believe the reports, Giroux was willing to go anywhere to help Philly. However, when Fletch wouldn't reassure him he'd bring G back, then Giroux *only* cared about going to the top team (FLA) to win a Cup.

I mean, why wouldn't he? If he isn't wanted any longer & can choose his own destination in 3 months, why wouldn't he force his way onto the top team to possibly pick up a Stanley Cup before free agency?

I believe Giroux is sincere in this quote, but it doesn't mean that he only wants to go to teams to win a Stanley Cup long-term. It just meant in that moment given the circumstance, he prioritized a Cup run. Not nearly as cut-and-dry as you're making it sound, but honestly it's not worth fighting over really. The report has merit with or without this quote.

 

[usahockey22flyers]

The best you could have got for Laughton was a late 1st rd pick.
Our three picks in the 20s have been TK, Rubtsov and Frost, so that's your gamble v a known quantity who is still only 28.

If they actually got that offer I woulda taken it

 

[deadhead]

If they actually got that offer I woulda taken it

That only makes sense if you are rebuilding, b/c the odds that a late 1st rd pick is going to be as good as Laughton are less than 50%,a and if so, not for 3-4 years.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

lip service, what do you expect him to say. He should have asked out of Philly long ago if he wanted to try to win a cup. Even funnier when you consider he really had very little interest in leaving Philly, then wanting to come back. Yeah the cup is real important to him.


Laughton is comparable. He would have got a first at the 2021 deadline with the way he was playing.

so Roo doesnt even know whats hes saying ?

lol..

ok! thats a serious hottake..

 

[usahockey22flyers]

That only makes sense if you are rebuilding, b/c the odds that a late 1st rd pick is going to be as good as Laughton are less than 50%,a and if so, not for 3-4 years.

Yeah thats true bit I like the idea of extra assets if they were to go big fish hunting

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

I’m pretty certain that it’s been argued by certain people that players like Laughton would be someone that other teams would covet and easily give up a first for.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

He said.



Giroux on chasing a Cup with the Cats: “That’s the reason I’m here. I’m here to win. I’m here to help the team win. That’s the reason this trade happened. I think this team has a chance to go far in the playoffs. … I think I can help this team. It’s time to go to work.”

He was a UFA to be of which his team wanted to move him and he only wanted to go to a team that could win a Cup. Of course he’s going to say he’s there to win a Cup.

That in no way shape or form means that his priority is Cup chasing the rest of his career.

 

[Beef Invictus]

So, here's the deal. I think it's more nuanced than just him saying he ONLY wants to win a Cup now.

If you believe the reports, Giroux was willing to go anywhere to help Philly. However, when Fletch wouldn't reassure him he'd bring G back, then Giroux *only* cared about going to the top team (FLA) to win a Cup.

I mean, why wouldn't he? If he isn't wanted any longer & can choose his own destination in 3 months, why wouldn't he force his way onto the top team to possibly pick up a Stanley Cup before free agency?

I believe Giroux is sincere in this quote, but it doesn't mean that he only wants to go to teams to win a Stanley Cup long-term. It just meant in that moment given the circumstance, he prioritized a Cup run. Not nearly as cut-and-dry as you're making it sound, but honestly it's not worth fighting over really. The report has merit with or without this quote.

No no, this is the only time in his career where Fletcher failed to get value and it wasn't his fault.

 

[Starat327]

Wait, you already blocked that burner account that is arguing here as well?

I don't f*** around man

 

[JojoTheWhale]

When we define the comparative value of a pick vs a player, we need to be better than purely looking at the likelihood of a better outcome than the existing skater. The range of outcomes better than Scott Laughton is so vast that it distorts evaluations. At least it should if you're doing it right.

Doubly so on a team that still has mostly depth players coming. Part of leveraging that correctly is to cycle your current guys into assets that can land stars. Anytime you can get a 1st for that type, you take it. Even if you trade it for another NHLer down the line.

Take the wins when they present themselves. Then work to compound them.

 

[Beef Invictus]

When we define the comparative value of a pick vs a player, we need to be better than purely looking at the likelihood of a better outcome than the existing skater. The range of outcomes better than Scott Laughton is so vast that it distorts evaluations. At least it should if you're doing it right.

Doubly so on a team that still has mostly depth players coming. Part of leveraging that correctly is to cycle your current guys into assets that can land stars. Anytime you can get a 1st for that type, you take it. Even if you trade it for another NHLer down the line.

Take the wins when they present themselves. Then work to compound them.

Or how about we emulate the Islanders and start locking those guys down as core pieces? What say you about that?

 

[Curufinwe]

He was a UFA to be of which his team wanted to move him and he only wanted to go to a team that could win a Cup. Of course he’s going to say he’s there to win a Cup.

That in no way shape or form means that his priority is Cup chasing the rest of his career.

He didn't get close to a Cup, and he's already 34 so the rest of his career might not be very long now.

 

[BringTheReign]

Howdy folks, wasn’t sure which thread this question should go in but here it goes. Are there any pieces from the Kings that look interesting for either Sanheim or Provorov? We badly need LD, and have a boatload of RD as well as forwards.

Would some mix of Kempe, Roy, Arvidsson, Iafallo, Durzi, Vilardi, Turcotte, Kupari, Spence, Bjornfot, Grans, and our ‘23 1st be at all appealing? What’s your biggest need?

If I’m way off, just tell me so and I’ll leave quietly.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Howdy folks, wasn’t sure which thread this question should go in but here it goes. Are there any pieces from the Kings that look interesting for either Sanheim or Provorov? We badly need LD, and have a boatload of RD as well as forwards.

Would some mix of Kempe, Roy, Arvidsson, Iafallo, Durzi, Vilardi, Turcotte, Kupari, Spence, Bjornfot, Grans, and our ‘23 1st be at all appealing? What’s your biggest need?

If I’m way off, just tell me so and I’ll leave quietly.

Most here have no interest in moving Sanehim at all. The team would have more, but almost to a person here, we would be floored if either was moved for futures. I don't mean surprised. I would head to Twitter to see if Bobby Clarke died level of shocked.

 

[deadhead]

When we define the comparative value of a pick vs a player, we need to be better than purely looking at the likelihood of a better outcome than the existing skater. The range of outcomes better than Scott Laughton is so vast that it distorts evaluations. At least it should if you're doing it right.

Doubly so on a team that still has mostly depth players coming. Part of leveraging that correctly is to cycle your current guys into assets that can land stars. Anytime you can get a 1st for that type, you take it. Even if you trade it for another NHLer down the line.

Take the wins when they present themselves. Then work to compound them.

A rose is a rose . ..
But a 1st is not a 1st, huge difference between #5, #14 and #27.

If you could have gotten a top 20 for Laughton, that's one thing, but usually at the TDL, you're gonna get a pick somewhere in the 20s if you can get a team to give up a 1st.

One reason TB was willing to trade 1sts was picking in the late 20s they didn't see a huge gap between that pick and the rest of their drafts. St Louis would have thought twice about the Schenn deal if they thought one of the picks would be #14, they expected both picks to be in the mid-20s.

 

[BringTheReign]

Most here have no interest in moving Sanehim at all. The team would have more, but almost to a person here, we would be floored if either was moved for futures. I don't mean surprised. I would head to Twitter to see if Bobby Clarke died level of shocked.

That's helpful to know, thanks. What would you see as fair value for Provorov? I seem to recall many Flyers fans thinking his down season was due to being poorly utilized, but I could be wrong. It's tough to get a handle on his value at the moment.

I could see one of our center prospects (Vilardi, Turcotte, Kupari) plus a 1st, but that would also put us over the cap with Kempe/Anderson still needing to be signed as RFAs. Do any roster players from the Kings seem like they'd be a fit as part of the deal, a la Roy, Iafallo, Arvidsson, or even Kempe? I'm also unsure if Blake would be willing to trade our '23 1st without seeing how the season is trending next year, so perhaps this is a better deal to revisit during the season if Provorov continues to fall out of favor. It's tricky on both sides.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

That's helpful to know, thanks. What would you see as fair value for Provorov? I seem to recall many Flyers fans thinking his down season was due to being poorly utilized, but I could be wrong. It's tough to get a handle on his value at the moment.

I say this only to give you the background necessary to put my answer into scope. I have been advocating trading him for a good 3+ years at this point because I think there are teams that will value him way above what he actually is. I'm not sure this is true anymore.

You're 100% correct that his value is difficult to judge. I suspect that he might have finally tanked it to the point where it's no longer worth dealing him. You just hope he bounces back. And then I would re-check his value and try to deal him for a young Center I loved. You can tell I wouldn't be a popular GM.

 

[Magua]

How is comparing Tippett and Frost a double standard? No one thinks Frost has excelled at the NHL level, right? He needs to showcase himself as an impact offensive player. But their career contexts, and what skills have translated in isolate, aren't remotely similar.

Tippett was a top 10 selection based on his readiness profile and pure shooting. His size is virtually identical now as to his draft combine. His physical tools have never been in question. Yet, his production stagnated at the junior level from his draft year. So, this physically mature player, with better draft year production and hype, is entering his D+6 without sticking as an NHL regular, and without giving you anything in particular to hang your hat on (including the shooting). His flaws have been known for years, so what specific developmental improvements should we focus on and expect?

Now, Frost was viewed as a late 1st-early 2nd player. He was physically immature, under a point/game in his draft year. You can go back in time and find reputable scouting reports doubting his offensive ceiling. His growth in his D+1 and D+2 was enormous. He was the best player on his AHL team in his D+3. He missed an entire season in his D+4. His D+5, coming off injury, was disappointing, albeit with moments of brilliance later on, on a total train wreck of a team. I don't think his mental approach to the game is in the same universe as Tippett; his vital skills, like passing, are visible. And he's shown in interesting ways defying common expectations: things like defense and forechecking.