2022/23 Roster Thread II: Worth Every Penny

[Beef Invictus]

Tippett was not the main piece, the 1st rd pick was the main piece, as in all these kind of rental deals.

I wouldn't say he's "clearly inferior" to Allison. Tippett is faster, Allison has a bigger frame and more skill, and if he stays healthy, has a higher upside (potential top 6 PF), but that's a huge if.

I'd say TIppett is far more likely to be a solid 3RW than Allison is to play 60 games.

A first round pick in the potentially distant future, which is potentially low to boot, is not the main piece.

But I understand you have to claim it is to defend Fletcher's feeble abilities

 

[deadhead]

A first round pick in the potentially distant future, which is potentially low to boot, is not the main piece.

But I understand you have to claim it is to defend Fletcher's feeble abilities

Look at any of these deals, 1st rd pick, "B" prospect, 3rd asset.

A distant 1st rd pick is better than a pick sure to be in the late 20s, FLA's 2024 could be like the St Louis pick that garnered Farabee, somewhere in the teens if cap issues hurt Fla the next two seasons. Colorado's 1st in 2023 is a good bet to be 25+.

 

[DancingPanther]

I wonder what Ogie Ogilthorpe is up to these days

OGIE OGILTORP!?

 

[dats81]

I'd say TIppett is far more likely to be a solid 3RW than Allison is to play 60 games.

Sad but true

 

[Ironmanrulez]

If Sanheim refuses to sign an extension that is obviously a different situation.

Bear if mind that a year ago some people predicted that Couturier would "wise up" and refuse to sign an extension.

It would have been wise. Now he will be without a Cup in his whole career.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

A first round pick that is in three (or potentially four) years doesn’t hold the same value of a draft pick in same year.

Keep spouting off about how it’s the typical trade deadline deal but they’re not the same. Again, anything to defend the feeble man.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Look at any of these deals, 1st rd pick, "B" prospect, 3rd asset.

A distant 1st rd pick is better than a pick sure to be in the late 20s, FLA's 2024 could be like the St Louis pick that garnered Farabee, somewhere in the teens if cap issues hurt Fla the next two seasons. Colorado's 1st in 2023 is a good bet to be 25+.

The pick is so far in the future that we shouldn't even assume Fletcher plans on keeping it, considering he needs the team to become better right now. That's another major reason it isn't the main piece; no part of Fletcher's career indicates he considers it as such

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Couts can still be effective in a few years. Kopitar, Bergeron, etc are all doing just fine. Flyers just need to stack the farm with real talent so they can take over and help once couts is past his prime…which was supposed to happen when Patrick and others were drafted. We had some busts but we have to try it again. Fletcher and co. Will f*** that up tho. We desperately need to hit this draft and hope we get a top 5 next year

Yes he will still be effective more than likely. What about years 4-8? Where will this Flyers team be in a few years while he is still effective?

Seeing the shape/state of this team why have Couturier for the next 8 years?

Still beating the Giroux trade carcass. Very enjoyable.

 

[TCTC]

A first round pick that is in three (or potentially four) years doesn’t hold the same value of a draft pick in same year.

Keep spouting off about how it’s the typical trade deadline deal but they’re not the same. Again, anything to defend the feeble man.

That pick is still an asset. It's still a 1st round pick. Not as valuable right now, but the value will only increase over time.

 

[Rebels57]

That pick is still an asset. It's still a 1st round pick. Not as valuable right now, but the value will only increase over time.

Especially since Fletcher makes the team worse every year

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

That pick is still an asset. It's still a 1st round pick. Not as valuable right now, but the value will only increase over time.

One could argue that the 2nd round pick Chuck sent to Arizona was a more valuable asset then that Panthers pick.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

One could argue that the 2nd round pick Chuck sent to Arizona was a more valuable asset then that Panthers pick.

How would the 2nd be more valuable than a 1st? Unless it is a total crap draft and there only a few spots diff ( say 28-33), even then not sure as a 1st still has better optics.

 

[FLYguy3911]

One could argue that the 2nd round pick Chuck sent to Arizona was a more valuable asset then that Panthers pick.

It is.

Especially because the 2024 pick could be a 2025 pick.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

How would the 2nd be more valuable than a 1st? Unless it is a total crap draft and there only a few spots diff ( say 28-33), even then not sure as a 1st still has better optics.

Time value of money.

 

[TCTC]

One could argue that the 2nd round pick Chuck sent to Arizona was a more valuable asset then that Panthers pick.

Maybe right now, but next year the 1st should be much more valuable than any 2nd round pick and in two years the player we potentially pick should be better than any player we could have picked with that 2nd.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Maybe right now, but next year the 1st should be much more valuable than any 2nd round pick and in two years the player we potentially pick should be better than any player we could have picked with that 2nd.

I think you're missing the initial point that it wasn't a very valuable pick when Fletch got it - and that was supposedly the main asset returned. Its value in 2024/25 isn't the discussion - it's the fact that Fletch couldn't even get a pick that was more valuable at the time in return.

So at the time of the deal, we got a weak draft pick (regardless if it becomes a good one in the year 2025) in return for one of the best players ever to be a Flyer.

 

[DancingPanther]

Lol, trading the best player in franchise history for a B prospect and an asset that is "not as valuable right now, but the value will only increase over time [3 to 4 years]" is a f***ing joke and Fletcher is a joke and this organization is a joke

Fletcher made a basketball style trade, except he only got one first round pick. Any way you slice it, it's a fleece. A Fletcher special. Nevermind Fletcher's grimey koala brain is the main reason the team was in a position that forced a Giroux trade in the first place.

 

[DancingPanther]

Oh and also never forget the send off Giroux really, actually got: after the video tribute and pre game circus (which Clarke invaded, btw) in the dying seconds of a close game despite being rested, Yeo elected to play Nate f***ing Thompson for the sub 60 second defensive zone draw.

Giroux meant nothing to the leaders, probably because he wasn't "outspoken" enough for a captain

 

[Psuhockey]

One could argue that the 2nd round pick Chuck sent to Arizona was a more valuable asset then that Panthers pick.

Or it could turn into a Bowen Byram.

These guys are defending a bad trade but that’s a ridiculous statement. A 1st round pick in the NHL draft is always more valuable than a 2nd round pick and that value could skyrocket if Florida falls apart which isn’t out of the realm of possibilities. A forward thinking club with a long term plan would gladly except future 1st round picks instead of this years 2nd because of how valuable they could be in the future. The Flyers aren’t that club, Fletcher isn’t that GM and they will absolutely trade the pick but that doesn’t make your statement true.

 

[TCTC]

I think you're missing the initial point that it wasn't a very valuable pick when Fletch got it - and that was supposedly the main asset returned. Its value in 2024/25 isn't the discussion - it's the fact that Fletch couldn't even get a pick that was more valuable at the time in return.

So at the time of the deal, we got a weak draft pick (regardless if it becomes a good one in the year 2025) in return for one of the best players ever to be a Flyer.

But a 2022 1st wouldn't have made it a great return either. Giroux had a NMC, so there really wasn't a chance to have a bidding war for his rights.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

But a 2022 1st wouldn't have made it a great return either. Giroux had a NMC, so there really wasn't a chance to have a bidding war for his rights.

There was, according to reports. Giroux told Fletch he'd go anywhere Fletch could make the best deal as long as Fletch would bring him back to Philly this offseason. Again, according to reports, Fletch told G "no" so then Giroux said he wanted Florida.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Or it could turn into a Bowen Byram.

These guys are defending a bad trade but that’s a ridiculous statement. A 1st round pick in the NHL draft is always more valuable than a 2nd round pick and that value could skyrocket if Florida falls apart which isn’t out of the realm of possibilities. A forward thinking club with a long term plan would gladly except future 1st round picks instead of this years 2nd because of how valuable they could be in the future. The Flyers aren’t that club, Fletcher isn’t that GM and they will absolutely trade the pick but that doesn’t make your statement true.

Well it’s also a top 10 protected pick in 2024 so… it’s not turning into a Bo Byram in that he was a 4th overall pick (via the Sens).

It’s not a ridiculous statement. The time value of money (ie draft picks) is a pretty well accepted concept.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

There was, according to reports. Giroux told Fletch he'd go anywhere Fletch could make the best deal as long as Fletch would bring him back to Philly this offseason. Again, according to reports, Fletch told G "no" so then Giroux said he wanted Florida.

Telling him no was a rare good move by Chuck.

 

[Curufinwe]

One could argue that the 2nd round pick Chuck sent to Arizona was a more valuable asset then that Panthers pick.

Yup. If Florida are a Conference Finals team in 2023-24 then that pick will be 29-32.

The best we could realistically hope for is that Florida just miss the playoffs in 23-24, and get a pick between 11 and 16.

Philadelphia Flyers Acquire:

Owen Tippett
2023 3rd round pick (FLA)
2024 1st round pick (FLA) [Conditional]*
*Conditions: If the pick is a top 10 selection, Philadelphia will instead receive Florida's 2025 1st round pick.

There was, according to reports. Giroux told Fletch he'd go anywhere Fletch could make the best deal as long as Fletch would bring him back to Philly this offseason. Again, according to reports, Fletch told G "no" so then Giroux said he wanted Florida.

Those reports don't make any sense, though. Giroux is old and chasing a Cup, so why would he agree in advance to come back to Philly next season?

 

[deadhead]

Lol, trading the best player in franchise history for a B prospect and an asset that is "not as valuable right now, but the value will only increase over time [3 to 4 years]" is a f***ing joke and Fletcher is a joke and this organization is a joke

Fletcher made a basketball style trade, except he only got one first round pick. Any way you slice it, it's a fleece. A Fletcher special. Nevermind Fletcher's grimey koala brain is the main reason the team was in a position that forced a Giroux trade in the first place.

G's trade value had nothing to do with his past performance, it was based on the rental rate for a very good but not elite 34 year old forward - G scored 2.03 pp/60 at 5x5 the last two seasons, 83rd among NHL forwards. Before you blame his teammates, Farabee was 36th at 2.42, and TK 66th at 2.15 (Voracek and Atkinson were both 1.95).

The going rate for this kind of deal is a 1st, a "B" asset and another asset (draft pick or "C" asset).

People who think any GM could have got a haul for G are delusional.
If if G had been willing to go to Colorado, Flyers would have gotten a 1st (probably 2023, they had traded their 2022 for Kuemper), Barron and maybe Helleson or a 2nd/3rd rd pick. Newhook and Byrum were off the table.