2022/23 Roster Thread II: Worth Every Penny

[TCTC]

I have no idea why the Flames would entertain the idea of trading Tkachuk unless he really doesn't want to re-sign there. He's the type of player you build your team around.

I would love him on the Flyers and I'd trade a lot to make it happen.

 

[Magua]

We're doing it right now with tippet.

Based on what? Puljujarvi has a statistical profile 2x as long. People are analyzing what he does well, apart from scoring, not that he's a disappointing top 10 pick. It's more about shifting perspective. What Tippett does well apart from scoring is pretty scant, and his scoring is scant too. Tippett's same flaws have existed for 5 years. They couldn't be different as players, style and context.

 

[deadhead]

Actually Tippett has scored about the same rate in FLA as Puljuarvi in Edmonton, he only fell off when paired with Frost here.
pp/60 (5x5)
Tippett 1.78, 1.55
Puljuarvi 1.25, 0.80, 1.53, 1.62

Puljuarvi is a year older and #4, not #10.
Both have flashed two way play.
Neither Tippett nor Puljuarvi are used on the PK, a serious flaw in a forward who's a mediocre offensive player

I'd say they're more similar than Magua would like to admit.
At this point you hope to get solid 3RW play, and I'd like to see Shaw use Tippett's speed on an aggressive PK.

 

[Prongo]

What about the 5th overall ++ for Matthew Tkachuk? JVR would probably have to be part of that package.

More realistically, I could see Jersey entertaining the 2nd overall for him and also going hard for Johnny Gaudreau

 

[bauer]

Tkachuk and Johnny G to the Flyers. E5.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

The said that about Giroux too, and they were right about him.

id bet cooter wouldnt have reupped, if he had known Roo was going...

 

[Beef Invictus]

The worst mistake you can make is trade/sign a player coming off a career year, odds are regression to the mean will apply, but optimists convince themselves the player has turned the proverbial corner.

What about signing someone long -term coming off several terrible years in a row?

 

[Beef Invictus]

We're doing it right now with tippet.
On the main forum I was bouncing around the idea of ceci and pulju for tk. Edm fans said they couldn't part with ceci

But there's nothing versatile about Tippett

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Fletcher looking at the Flyers salary cap outlook after the Ristolainen extension…

 

[Rebels57]

We're doing it right now with tippet.
On the main forum I was bouncing around the idea of ceci and pulju for tk. Edm fans said they couldn't part with ceci

Tippet's not good

 

[flyerslducks]

With or without Couturier this team will not be going anywhere. Can’t wait to see how he is playing in 4 years. Signing him to an 8 year deal was foolish and dumb. Has nothing to do with the player himself. He should have bene moved at the 2021 deadline. Just another mismanaged opportunity the GM didn’t capitalize on.

Couts can still be effective in a few years. Kopitar, Bergeron, etc are all doing just fine. Flyers just need to stack the farm with real talent so they can take over and help once couts is past his prime…which was supposed to happen when Patrick and others were drafted. We had some busts but we have to try it again. Fletcher and co. Will f*** that up tho. We desperately need to hit this draft and hope we get a top 5 next year

 

[Beef Invictus]

Actually Tippett has scored about the same rate in FLA as Puljuarvi in Edmonton, he only fell off when paired with Frost here.
pp/60 (5x5)
Tippett 1.78, 1.55
Puljuarvi 1.25, 0.80, 1.53, 1.62

Puljuarvi is a year older and #4, not #10.
Both have flashed two way play.
Neither Tippett nor Puljuarvi are used on the PK, a serious flaw in a forward who's a mediocre offensive player

I'd say they're more similar than Magua would like to admit.
At this point you hope to get solid 3RW play, and I'd like to see Shaw use Tippett's speed on an aggressive PK.

Remember what we've told you about direct comparison between players on different teams devoid of context, and how it always fails?

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Yup. Giroux might be the best value on the market given the contract he likely could get which is hilarious given how things have transpired with him & the Flyers.

I'm so turned on thinking about Brind'amour breathing on Giroux's neck behind the bench

 

[tictactoe]

What about the 5th overall ++ for Matthew Tkachuk? JVR would probably have to be part of that package.

More realistically, I could see Jersey entertaining the 2nd overall for him and also going hard for Johnny Gaudreau

now way Flames do this.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I’m going to bring up a point here that I hope is taken in the spirit it’s meant because I really don’t give a shit what happens with this team anymore. I just want us all to have better, more informed discussions.

The area in which Owen Tippett has brought the most value at 5v5 is Primary Assists. Do you expect that to continue based on his skill set? It’s worth noting that 5 of his 6 this year came before the trade as well.

 

[deadhead]

Remember what we've told you about direct comparison between players on different teams devoid of context, and how it always fails?

RIght. Given who they were playing with in Edm and Fla, your're not going to really suggest that Tippett had it easier?

I’m going to bring up a point here that I hope is taken in the spirit it’s meant because I really don’t give a shit what happens with this team anymore. I just want us all to have better, more informed discussions.

The area in which Owen Tippett has brought the most value at 5v5 is Primary Assists. Do you expect that to continue based on his skill set? It’s worth noting that 5 of his 6 this year came before the trade as well.

Actually, that's a good sign. Watching him, I was surprised to see he was a much better passer than advertised, and he worked hard at playing a 200 foot game (and will certainly have to under Torts). He's not a great playmaker, but he's not totally inept either.

His biggest problem was finishing plays, Tippett has a good release on his wrist shot, but needs to improve deception and accuracy. At 22 (23 this coming season) I don't think he has probably peaked.

Not saying he'll ever live up to his draft position, but it's not unreasonable to see a middle six forward there - and the Flyers certainly should be adding more players like Tippett and giving them a chance to prove themselves. It's not like this team couldn't use a size/speed combo.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

I’m going to bring up a point here that I hope is taken in the spirit it’s meant because I really don’t give a shit what happens with this team anymore. I just want us all to have better, more informed discussions.

The area in which Owen Tippett has brought the most value at 5v5 is Primary Assists. Do you expect that to continue based on his skill set? It’s worth noting that 5 of his 6 this year came before the trade as well.

The answer to that question, my compadre, is a big ol' NOPE.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Action plan for Fletch to not totally ruin my offseason for the Flyers:

• Keep 5OA and draft Nemec if he's there.
• Sign Max Domi or Stastny on a buy low deal
• Keep JVR until deadline unless you can get value at 50% retained
• Don't sign 1) Kadri 2) Gaudreau (in that order)
• If you have to go get DeBrincat, swap TK in the deal to get him.

Complete 2 of those tasks and it's more than I'd expect from Fletch.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Actually, that's a good sign. Watching him, I was surprised to see he was a much better passer than advertised, and he worked hard at playing a 200 foot game (and will certainly have to under Torts). He's not a great playmaker, but he's not totally inept either.

His biggest problem was finishing plays, Tippett has a good release on his wrist shot, but needs to improve deception and accuracy. At 22 (23 this coming season) I don't think he has probably peaked.

Not saying he'll ever live up to his draft position, but it's not unreasonable to see a middle six forward there - and the Flyers certainly should be adding more players like Tippett and giving them a chance to prove themselves. It's not like this team couldn't use a size/speed combo.

Like who you like and for whatever reason, by all means. But a Goal-scoring archetype Wing bringing a good portion of his value via Primary Assists before a trade from the best offensive 5v5 team in the league only to have it crater with his new one is not a good sign. You think he can do more? Sure, go for it. But you can’t just decide it’s good and expect me to go along.

His 20-21 Florida numbers (1.06 A1/60 at 5v5) would have been 2nd on the 19-20 Flyers and first on the 20-21 Flyers. That same 1.06 would have been the 3rd best season of Voracek’s career. His 0.65 A1/60 last year before the trade would be tied for the 5th best season of Kevin Hayes’ career. Then it dropped to 0.23/60 here. That’s what you’re telling me is actually a positive and relevant to sustainability.

 

[deadhead]

Like who you like and for whatever reason, by all means. But a Goal-scoring archetype Wing bringing a good portion of his value via Primary Assists before a trade from the best offensive 5v5 team in the league only to have it crater with his new one is not a good sign. You think he can do more? Sure, go for it. But you can’t just decide it’s good and expect me to go along.

His 20-21 Florida numbers (1.06 A1/60 at 5v5) would have been 2nd on the 19-20 Flyers and first on the 20-21 Flyers. That same 1.06 would have been the 3rd best season of Voracek’s career. His 0.65 A1/60 last year before the trade would be tied for the 5th best season of Kevin Hayes’ career. Then it dropped to 0.23/60 here. That’s what you’re telling me is actually a positive and relevant to sustainability.

The problem with Tippett is expectations.
If you expect a #10 pick, or think he was the centerpiece of the G trade, you're gonna be disappointed.

If like me, you see him as the "B asset" that's typical in this trades (Colorado was offering Barron and/or Helleson), and are content if he's a 3RW who uses his size and speed to be an above average forechecker and has enough skill to make plays off that pressure, then you'll be more copacetic.

I want to see more of Cates - Frost - Tippett, I thought they were the best line in terms of controlling the game (not in terms of scoring) last year, and all three are young enough to develop. Give me a high energy 3rd line that can forecheck and play good defense and score some points and I'm content. Still need to add a couple top 6 forwards, but it would go along way in building quality depth.

 

[SnS]

Tippett blows.

 

[DancingPanther]

On serious thought I think draft position/prospect profile is a bias against Puljujarvi. People hold it against him that he’s not a star or top line caliber player to the point they miss that he’s actually a versatile middle of the lineup caliber of player in the prime of his career under RFA control.

The Flyers for example did this back in the day with JvR.

Hey but they got bigger and tougher

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Hey but they got bigger and tougher

I wonder what Ogie Ogilthorpe is up to these days

 

[Rebels57]

Tippett blows.

Glorified 3rd/4th line tweener living off draft status and clearly inferior to Wade Allison, who he will now play ahead of regardless of Wade's health.

Thats who we got back as the main piece for Giroux.

Fletcher should be tarred & feathered and then drawn & quartered.

 

[deadhead]

Tippett was not the main piece, the 1st rd pick was the main piece, as in all these kind of rental deals.

I wouldn't say he's "clearly inferior" to Allison. Tippett is faster, Allison has a bigger frame and more skill, and if he stays healthy, has a higher upside (potential top 6 PF), but that's a huge if.

I'd say TIppett is far more likely to be a solid 3RW than Allison is to play 60 games.