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Rumor: 2022-2023 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: The Search for a 2C

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cinchronicity said:
Just one guy's opinion, but I felt that Manson's highest value last year was in GM 1 against Nashville, when Kunin tried to bait Kadri into a fight, and Manson put a stop to that, while also sending a message to the rest of the playoff field that the Avs were not only skilled but tough...and not about to take any crap from anyone. I loved his goal. I loved his assist. I REALLY loved his save against St Louis. But I love his size more than anything. MacDermid and Englund should be 7D and 8D, and EJ should be in a rest home. I'd rather not have Makar or Byram doing crease-minding duty, and Byram is not large enough. Manson has actually authored a number of 2 line passes out of the D-zone, which Girard previously did.

I understand that every dollar pointed toward Manson was also directed away from Kadri. Those who claim that we could have fit Kadri in are correct, but I think that a PhD in mathematics and probability would be necessary to work out all the variables:

1) Kadri appeared to be demanding 7 x $9M
2) Kadri had Nuke and Bura on his wings last year, and Kadri at $9M would have eliminate 1 or both of them, meaning that 87 pt season might not reappear.
3) Kadri would be 39 at the end of the contract ( and conceivably 40 if he signed earlier with the Avs at 8 x $8M)
4) Lehky and Nuke are both 27 this year
5) I don't like this one bit, but Kadri had ( and has) the Sword of Damacles above his head. One stupid or ill-timed hit, and he could be gone 16 games in the playoffs.
6) Nobody has ( or still have) a definitive clue about where the cap would be.
6a) At the time, it appeared that Byram and Newhook could potentially earn all their bonus, making cap hell even worse.
7) In their hearts, SakMac knew that EJ was a 6D at best, and the team would need a legit 4D with size.

I was Kadri's biggest fan in here, and I did not want to sign that contract. There are many opinions in this thread, but I have yet to see one which considered 100% of those variables.
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Nice post, pretty much felt the same about Kadri.
Linds said:
Imagine
Landy- Mack- Nuke
Lehky- Rants- Kane
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Pierce Hawthorne said:
Yup. Easily the heavy favorites this year probably next year as well.
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The only way that works is if the only reason they're still playing Mikko at wing is because of an attempt to squeeze every drop of offense out of this roster, and there isn't any truth to him not wanting to be a center long term.

Maybe him and Kane can switch off to make it fairsies. 😆

If they trade for someone like Kane we'll have our answer though.
 
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Avs9296 said:
Kane and Rants on the same line just isn't fair.

Can you imagine a PP of

Landeskog
MacKinnon
Rantanen
Kane
Makar

Or with an extra attacker with the goalie pulled adding Nuke? Damn that's a scary scary lineup.
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They are already really damn good at keep away though! 😉
 
CobraAcesS said:
The only way that works is if the only reason they're still playing Mikko at wing is because of an attempt to squeeze every drop of offense out of this roster
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I don't see that as a valid reason. Mikko at center opens more possibilities offensively, not less. All the other players in the top 9 are more effective on the wing.

He's not playing center because Bednar doesn't like him at center (or Mikko just told Bednar he prefers to play on the wing).

Either way, I just don't understand why people refuse to let it go.

Also why people keep talking about Toews losing a step but look the other way for Kane who's well below PPG this year and has 5 goals in 32 games?

Toews at -15 is scandalous but Kane at -19 is fine?
 
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Balthazar said:
I don't see that as a valid reason. Mikko at center opens more possibilities offensively, not less. All the other players in the top 9 are more effective on the wing.

He's not playing center because Bednar doesn't like him at center (or Mikko just told Bednar he prefers to play on the wing).

Either way, I just don't understand why people refuse to let it go.
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You've already provided the answer.
 
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Balthazar said:
I don't see that as a valid reason. Mikko at center opens more possibilities offensively, not less. All the other players in the top 9 are more effective on the wing.

He's not playing center because Bednar doesn't like him at center (or Mikko just told Bednar he prefers to play on the wing).

Either way, I just don't understand why people refuse to let it go.

Also why people keep talking about Toews losing a step but look the other way for Kane who's well below PPG this year and has 5 goals in 32 games?
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There is definitely something to it, but could be both. I kinda have a hard time seeing Mikko being that bullish on something, but Bednar yes lol.

That is a hell of a top six though, and I hate Kane off the ice.
 
CobraAcesS said:
Nice post, pretty much felt the same about Kadri.




The only way that works is if the only reason they're still playing Mikko at wing is because of an attempt to squeeze every drop of offense out of this roster, and there isn't any truth to him not wanting to be a center long term.

Maybe him and Kane can switch off to make it fairsies. 😆

If they trade for someone like Kane we'll have our answer though.
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I think you hit the nail on the head with the last two sentences. Those in here who are familiar with me know that I am not Bednar's biggest fan. But he did bring a terrific system which essentially ignores the roles and positions I learned back in the 60s and 70s. Defensemen pinch in. All 3 forwards have to backcheck a ton. So does Mikko have to emulate Savard, Stastny or Trottier as a C? Not really, if the system accommodates his positives, while mitigating his negatives. Landy has essentially been 9296's center for the defensive half of the duties for years. For a good 15 minutes per game, Makar appears to be a Center. Bednar's system is surely not like table hockey / slot hockey, where each player is very limited in their roles. So why not forget the positional letter listed in Cap Friendly, and get 18 guys who complement each other?
 
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cinchronicity said:
I think you hit the nail on the head with the last two sentences. Those in here who are familiar with me know that I am not Bednar's biggest fan. But he did bring a terrific system which essentially ignores the roles and positions I learned back in the 60s and 70s. Defensemen pinch in. All 3 forwards have to backcheck a ton. So does Mikko have to emulate Savard, Stastny or Trottier as a C? Not really, if the system accommodates his positives, while mitigating his negatives. Landy has essentially been 9296's center for the defensive half of the duties for years. For a good 15 minutes per game, Makar appears to be a Center. Bednar's system is surely not like table hockey / slot hockey, where each player is very limited in their roles. So why not forget the positional letter listed in Cap Friendly, and get 18 guys who complement each other?
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I could actually see it work fine if it is players of that caliber. Both Kane and Mikko can play center, maybe it depends on the team we're playing or home and away, etc.

Bednar is interesting, sometimes bull headed to a fault, and then completely breaking the mold later. Actually Ive decided I to like him this year lol. They've been better at asking him direct questions in his interviews, and getting him to explain himself at times. Which is helpful.

Pierce Hawthorne said:
Landeskog - Rantanen - Kane

Where Landy plays the Center role down low in the defensive end and takes defensive zone faceoffs. Mikko plays Center in the offensive end.


Then Nuke - Mack - Lehky on another line.
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I could see that too, nice to have options.
 
Linds said:
He just turned 34. And his game isn't based on speed so I could definitely see him aging like Palveski
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We must be watching different Patrick Kanes then because the one I've seen most assuredly relies on speed and skill to create space. He's nothing like Pavelski (or Joe Thornton for that matter). Kane was the first guy I thought of when I saw Jack Hughes play before he was drafted.

I know people tend not to care about these things but one thing to note that there is a single aspect of Kane's game that has NOT aged well at all. His defense. He was never any great shakes in his own end of the ice to be sure, but he very well may be the single worst defensive player in hockey right now. People just haven't noticed because the Hawks have been so bad for so long now, that any team that gets him will have to take this into account. And I don't think it's as simple a solution as, say, David Pastrnak where you just stick him with the best defensive forwards on the team.

And it's compounded with the current mix of potential centers the Avs could pair him with. MacKinnnon-Kane would not be good defensively, but Rantanen-Kane would be an absolute disaster. I don't think Rodrigues-Kane would be much better either.
 
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Balthazar said:
Also why people keep talking about Toews losing a step but look the other way for Kane who's well below PPG this year and has 5 goals in 32 games?

Toews at -15 is scandalous but Kane at -19 is fine?
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Because Kane has a better, more recent track record. 92 points in 78 games last season.

Not only that, but one of these players is supposedly a phenomenal two-way centre and the other has never been known for his defensive play. Yet they're roughly similar in the +/- totals.

So yeah, there are reasons for these things.
 
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Balthazar said:
I don't see that as a valid reason. Mikko at center opens more possibilities offensively, not less. All the other players in the top 9 are more effective on the wing.

He's not playing center because Bednar doesn't like him at center (or Mikko just told Bednar he prefers to play on the wing).

Either way, I just don't understand why people refuse to let it go.

Also why people keep talking about Toews losing a step but look the other way for Kane who's well below PPG this year and has 5 goals in 32 games?

Toews at -15 is scandalous but Kane at -19 is fine?
Click to expand...
Although I believe these two statements are true there might be another reason for Mikko being back on the wing. Bednar can have Mikko on the ice as a scoring threat for 25-29 minutes. There is no way Mikko could be playing C for that amount of time and still be effective.
 
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AllAboutAvs said:
Although I believe these two statements are true there might be another reason for Mikko being back on the wing. Bednar can have Mikko on the ice as a scoring threat for 25-29 minutes. There is no way Mikko could be playing C for that amount of time and still be effective.
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Yeah that's fair as well, it isn't simple, my point was that Mikko can drive offense on the wing even against the other teams best. He's always been more responsible when playing C. At one point we all thought he was going to be much more of a two way player.

It comes down to where he is on the ice, when, and his mentality. He clearly is more of a offensive minded force on the wing, and we need that. Let the plugs who can't finish grind it out down low.

I just think it's more plausible reasoning than I don't wanna personally.
 
Linds said:
Larkin is still not signed and has been eligible for quite some time. Also could see him wanting to sign with a contender as he hasn't had much of any playoff runs. Lundell is a luxury for the panthers and they have one of the worst D cores in the NHL
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I am wondering if we see a few hockey trades between contenders. I feel like we could use one ourselves with limited options. The prices are going to be high with limited flexibility around the NHL.
 
Pokecheque said:
We must be watching different Patrick Kanes then because the one I've seen most assuredly relies on speed and skill to create space. He's nothing like Pavelski (or Joe Thornton for that matter). Kane was the first guy I thought of when I saw Jack Hughes play before he was drafted.

I know people tend not to care about these things but one thing to note that there is a single aspect of Kane's game that has NOT aged well at all. His defense. He was never any great shakes in his own end of the ice to be sure, but he very well may be the single worst defensive player in hockey right now. People just haven't noticed because the Hawks have been so bad for so long now, that any team that gets him will have to take this into account. And I don't think it's as simple a solution as, say, David Pastrnak where you just stick him with the best defensive forwards on the team.

And it's compounded with the current mix of potential centers the Avs could pair him with. MacKinnnon-Kane would not be good defensively, but Rantanen-Kane would be an absolute disaster. I don't think Rodrigues-Kane would be much better either.
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Kane hasn't been fast in the past 4 years and he's still producing really well. He uses his stick handling and IQ rather than speed imo
CobraAcesS said:
I am wondering if we see a few hockey trades between contenders. I feel like we could use one ourselves with limited options. The prices are going to be high with limited flexibility around the NHL.
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You mean like Seth Jones for Ryan Jo type of trade ?
 
Linds said:
Kane hasn't been fast in the past 4 years and he's still producing really well. He uses his stick handling and IQ rather than speed imo

You mean like Seth Jones for Ryan Jo type of trade ?
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Maybe just money in money out. Position for another position. So yes, but that big, I don't know.

If you can restructure the roster a bit without paying astronomical rental prices it might be worth it. That being versus the price to add and clear salary combine. We're not the only team in this position.
 
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