LOFIN
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- Sep 16, 2011
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I'm totally fine with keeping EJ as long as he's paid relative to his role.
Rumor: 2022-2023 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: The Search for a 2C
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John Mandalorian
2022 Avs: The First Dance
- Nov 29, 2018
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dahrougem2
Registered User
MacKinnon, Rantanen, Lehkonen, Nichushkin, and Rodrigues are all out-pacing Toews while Compher is right there with him.Sounds better than anyone on our team outside the top line
I genuinely do not believe Toews is the answer at 2C for this team. I don't think - based on his age - he provides anything more than J.T. Compher to us other than faceoff ability.
Love that he wants to retire an Av, as he should. But EJ from here on out should be making no more than the vet gimme the Avs gave to Helm and Cogs this summer.
LOFIN
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- Sep 16, 2011
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If he's #6 and the cap is only going up by 1m, that's exactly it. We have to play hard ball here. The fact is that EJ could get probably like 3m from some team at the open market. At least 2,5. But if he wants to stay with us and try to win more, he has to take a big paycut.
I mean even that would benefit this team because then you can slide Compher down (or put Toews in the 3rd line, whatever way you want it). Let's say Toews wants to be here, it wouldn't cost too much even with retention because he can tell the GM it's Colorado or nothing. I'd rather do that than go after say Horvat, which is going to be a bidding war. There are teams who want to extend him, and I don't know if we could pull that off even if we wanted.
True, though not by much. .566 vs .500 PPG. However it should be noted that Toews is doing so centering the likes of Taylor Raddysh and Philipp Kurashev...God the Hawks are bad.
shadow1
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- Nov 29, 2008
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Chicago has only scored 36 goals in its last 20 games, so it's not a shock Toews production has fallen off. Even Patrick Kane only has 12 points in his last 21 games. They're playing for a terrible team.
Dach (22p), Kubalik (26p), and Strome (24p) have all had big turnarounds after leaving that organization. Ironically they'd all be leading Chicago in points right now.
Dach (22p), Kubalik (26p), and Strome (24p) have all had big turnarounds after leaving that organization. Ironically they'd all be leading Chicago in points right now.
Refalanche
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- Jun 23, 2022
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Do people really care this much about face off percentages? The abysmal 16-17 Avs was the 2nd best face off team in the league (53.62%) and the pretty good Avs of 21-22 was the 5th worst team (47.27%)
Faceoffs are only situationally important. You can lose most of your draws as a team and still win the key ones like Kadri did all of last year. It's why overall faceoff percentages are largely useless stats and aren't indicative of team success. But they are still important.
Chiarelli
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- Jan 27, 2019
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I’m gonna say he’s 250k overpaid regardless of annual value
Perratrooper
Registered User
Girard has been much better defensively and in terms of keeping play in the other end the last few (5-7) games. This is supported by hockey stat cards numbers (averaged a 0.59 game score over the last 7 games vs a season average of -0.17 in the previous 24 games) and the eye test. It is a small sample size, but if he continues to play the way he has he should be able to turn his season around regardless of who he is paired with.
Girard has certainly had a dip in his play, but as other posters have mentioned - besides from Mikko no one, not even Makar, are generating much of anything offensively.
Girard has certainly had a dip in his play, but as other posters have mentioned - besides from Mikko no one, not even Makar, are generating much of anything offensively.
Oh yeah. Some folks here have a weird obsession with them.
They're about as useless of a stat as you will ever find.
It'd be nice to have 1 really good faceoff guy for the couple bug draws inside of a game... But outside of that yeah they are essentially meaningless.
LOFIN
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- Sep 16, 2011
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Faceoffs only REALLY matter with special teams. At even strength, you can battle the puck back fairly easily. With PK you need to win the draw to clear and kill time, with PP you need to establish possession and not pick it up from your own end.
Exactly why are we so desperate to land Hayes?
- Oct 24, 2008
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Nobody cares about faceoffs until you care about losing key faceoffs.
expatriatedtexan
Illegitimati non carborundum
- Aug 17, 2005
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I keep reading this. And on some level, I think I actually understand it better now. But is there a site that breaks out faceoff percentage by important situations? I mean not all defensive draws at important right? You might be up 4-1, etc... I guess what I'm saying is, it would just be nice to be able to sort a list of forwards by FO% that actually matters.
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I dont even think that's necessarily true.
Colorado had the #1PP in the league earlier this year while having the 32nd ranked Faceoff% on the PP. Because the Avs are such a good zone entry team on the PP, losing that draw really isn't a big deal.
I don't think the faceoff itself matters one bit outside of very late game situations where you're up by a goal in 6 on 5, and then OT faceoff situations.
Those are the only two scenarios in a game where getting that puck possession especially matters. In 6 on 5 situations, it is significantly harder to get clean zone entries with the 5th guy on the ice for the team defending. And, losing that draw means the defending team could have a free shot on the empty net which could ice the game entirely. In OT, we see teams now recognize the value of puck control. You lose a faceoff in OT you might not touch the puck again for 2+ minutes.
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expatriatedtexan
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- Aug 17, 2005
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I'm not. But his salary meets more in line with what the Avs can spend moving forward. Bo Horvat has priced himself out of our market, I fear.
I'm personally not a Hayes fan and don't think he'd be much better than ERod for us this season, beyond that I'm not certain but I'd really rather find another candidate.
I know it will cost but our preference should be a surefire young center. One that we will be able to keep and that should be peaking or in his peak when MacKinnon's play starts dipping so they can swap spots. The cost for that though is going to be very exorbitant as there are only a few players who meet those requirements and I doubt most, if any, of them are actually available. So that leaves us looking at...*checks notes* Hayes this week.
Stop by next week for the Christmas time special edition of Duchene with 3M retained for Girard and Bowers.
- Aug 25, 2006
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I agree except for your comment regarding PP. Every time you lose a faceoff on the PP you lose 15-20 secs of PP time. That is about 1 min per game. That could be an extra goal for us. Also if you say they don't matter on the PP then you must say they don't matter on the PK as well because a good PK should be able to ice the puck or defend enough to compensate. Losing the draw on the PK could be an extra minute pinned in your own zone. That extra minute of PK could be one less goal against per game. And let's not forget that it would most likely be Makar and Toews on the ice on that extra minute.
As expat said I wish faceoff stats would be broken down by situations to really tell a better story on how good or bad a player is at it. Those are really the only time faceoffs matter.
- Aug 25, 2006
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And I would add to this that CHI had a pretty good start in Oct and I would bet those two guys were a lot more motivated then than they are right now. If Toews comes to Denver I bet he would be motivated again and his production would come up again.
That isn't true though. You're assuming every lost faceoff is an automatic clear. Which goes hand in hand with what I said about what happens immediately after the faceoff being far more important than the faceoff itself.
Plus again, the stat simply speaks for itself. If winning a faceoff on the PP was so important, Colorado wouldn't have been the #1 Ranked PP while the 32nd ranked faceoff team on the PP.
Not by much is really a matter of definition. He's producing 10% more... whether or not that is significant is in the eye of the beholder.
To me, we clearly see the good and bad already with ERod. He's speedy, can get chances and is versatile... he continues to be a guy that doesn't finish well and has some frustrating moments. Right now his overall production is propped up by the PP here. ES and 5v5, his production isn't 2nd line quality right now (more like 3rd line, maybe low end 3rd line) and him being on the 2nd line is part of the 5v5 issues the team faces. This isn't meant to be compared to Toews (who is likely worse in this area, I haven't looked), just a statement as a whole.
- Aug 25, 2006
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What Avs games are you watching? 95% of the faceoffs we lose end up being an icing against us.
So we could have been an even better #1 ranked PP and an even worst 32nd ranked PK. It's not because we were already #1 that we shouldn't try to improve it even more. My points still stand.
Literally just making up stats now to help your argument.
Usually a sign to step away when made up stays come into play.
Keep believing what you want to believe.
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