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Rumor: 2022-2023 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: The Search for a 2C

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henchman24 said:
Just saying we know the price on picks and we are far beyond that. It won’t be as cheap as people think for 50% and I’d argue that fans don’t really get values all that well and don’t take into account cash flow.


Ok… if this is on fire, it still isn’t amazing. But shows he’s much better at wing. So where does he fit at that point?


We will see in the end… just saying Avs have paid before. Kuemper was always going to demand average starter salary. That he roughly got. Can’t imagine the Avs didn’t see that coming…
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Kronke has one of the biggest ranches in Montana though!
 
Pagnotta says that the Avs and Bruins "have inquired" about Jonathan Toews.
 
henchman24 said:
We will see in the end… just saying Avs have paid before. Kuemper was always going to demand average starter salary. That he roughly got. Can’t imagine the Avs didn’t see that coming…
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I just don't think they saw him struggling like he did in the playoffs and once that happened they were hesitant to give him starters money. I think the fact we won despite his poor performance sealed the deal. I agree Kuemper was always going to demand starters money and if he played like he did in the regular season I think there's a good possibility he would have got it here.

It's like Lehky/Manson could have been rentals if they struggled and we got bounced in the conference finals but I think Sakic alway set out to keep them and I don't think the Avs viewed Kuemper as a 100% rental. Given what Horvat is potentially asking for there's a good chance he'll be a pure rental. I think it's different than Kuemper. Kuemper you could have moved things around and fit him in for 5ish mill if he played lights out. If someone like Horvat wants 9 mill there's just no way you can retain him.
 
I was just reading The Athletic and Baugh floated the idea of us picking up Nick Bonino for the bottom six depth at the deadline. He’s a very Bednar-friendly type of player and we trade well with the Sharks. Book it.
 
henchman24 said:
I’m shocked! Shocked! Well not that shocked.
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electrician-electric-shock.gif
 
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Gumballhead said:
I was just reading The Athletic and Baugh floated the idea of us picking up Nick Bonino for the bottom six depth at the deadline. He’s a very Bednar-friendly type of player and we trade well with the Sharks. Book it.
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How is he “Bednar-friendly”? I’m not asking to disagree or be antagonistic, btw.
 
Landeskog Calrissian said:
How is he “Bednar-friendly”? I’m not asking to disagree or be antagonistic, btw.
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Plays with effort, defensively sound, consistent, willing to battle and wins battles consistently… that’s a pretty prototypical Bednar bottom 6 guy. Bones’ biggest issue over the years has been his very streaky offensive play. For spurts he looks like a 2C in that regard, but then he’ll give you 6 weeks of 4C level offense out of nowhere.
 
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Landeskog Calrissian said:
How is he “Bednar-friendly”? I’m not asking to disagree or be antagonistic, btw.
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Hench already said most of it, but he's in the Cogliano mold and plays center. I think he'd definitely thrive in our system as a role player and at his age (same as Cogs I think?) will be Cup hungry and focused. I think he can kill penalties too and it's always nice to have some veteran guys when the playoffs often become a battle of attrition. Not a sexy move but we can probably only afford one of those this season and it will almost have to be for a 2C.

We also need another depth D, and I just have this feeling it might be JMFJ, especially if we get Toews - one stop shopping. If we don't get a guy like Bonino, it would be nice to have a bottom six crash and banger who can annoy other teams, especially if we draw a physical team in the playoffs.
 
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Well Henchy mentioned if you’re gonna get a middle-tier 2C then you have to upgrade the 3C position. That would be a pretty decent upgrade if they went out and got Bonino.
 
Muffin said:
Wouldn't we already have ERod at 3C if we get a 2C?
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It would be more likely that Compher is the 3C with ERod at wing floating through the lineup.

I don't think the Avs will look to upgrade center twice... whatever move they make at center is likely to be their only move. I'm not entirely sure the Avs can grab Bones though. He's likely a 3rd round pick + C prospect sort. Avs don't have a 3rd until 2025. No 4th this year. So the Avs would have to structure the deal around 24 4th + low B prospect. Which it would be a stretch, but maybe you get that around 24 4th + Ambro/Stieny. Avs likely won't entertain Behrens/OO/Foudy in a Bones deal. Just kind of a no man's land. He would fit nicely though and if you can get him for 4th + Ambro, do it yesterday (but still look for a legit 2C).
 
Pokecheque said:
Well Henchy mentioned if you’re gonna get a middle-tier 2C then you have to upgrade the 3C position. That would be a pretty decent upgrade if they went out and got Bonino.
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That is pretty much the exact reason they signed eRod.

MacKinnon - Hayes - eRod - Compher/Helm

That right there is center depth you can try to win a cup with.

Weren't the Avs significantly interested in Hayes when he ended up signing in Philly? Maybe they can finally get 'their guy' before he turns into complete shit.
 
Ararana said:
That is pretty much the exact reason they signed eRod.

MacKinnon - Hayes - eRod - Compher/Helm

That right there is center depth you can try to win a cup with.

Weren't the Avs significantly interested in Hayes when he ended up signing in Philly? Maybe they can finally get 'their guy' before he turns into complete shit.
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Gabe Nate Mikko
Artturi Kevin Val
Newhook eRod Malgin
Cogs jtc/helm LOC

I like it, kind of bumps everyone into proper position.
 
Personally one of the big appeals of getting Hayes at like $5M or less is that it should leave the Avs some money to spend on a decent 3C.


The Avs realistically can afford a 2C at $8M... But it would leave very little space to build a bottom 6. Basically would be looking at ~$5.5M to spend on 6 players.

But if you get Hayes at say $5M, they could have as much as $8M to spend on the bottom 6. If they get him at 50% retained you're pushing almost $10M in space.


He'd be expensive at the 50% retention(1st++ sort of cost) but it would allow the Avs to get a really good 3C as well.
 
Pierce Hawthorne said:
Personally one of the big appeals of getting Hayes at like $5M or less is that it should leave the Avs some money to spend on a decent 3C.


The Avs realistically can afford a 2C at $8M... But it would leave very little space to build a bottom 6. Basically would be looking at ~$5.5M to spend on 6 players.

But if you get Hayes at say $5M, they could have as much as $8M to spend on the bottom 6. If they get him at 50% retained you're pushing almost $10M in space.


He'd be expensive at the 50% retention(1st++ sort of cost) but it would allow the Avs to get a really good 3C as well.
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Get Hayes at 50%, trade Girard for Dvorak. Re-sign Toews once it's possible.
Gabe Nate Mikko
Lehkonen Hayes Nuke
Newhook Dvorak eRod
helm JTC LOC
Cogs
Toews Makar
Byram Manson
? EJ
 
Coffeeguy said:
Get Hayes at 50%, trade Girard for Dvorak. Re-sign Toews once it's possible.
Gabe Nate Mikko
Lehkonen Hayes Nuke
Newhook Dvorak eRod
Meyers helm LOC
Cogs
Toews Makar
Byram Manson
? EJ
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Yeah maybe. Dvorak is a lot more appealing as the 3C versus 2C, but I think I'd still rather go somewhere else.

Personally I'd rather go the route of trading Girard for futures in the summer and then flipping those futures(Or other futures) for a 3C. Assuming G still carries reasonably decent value(I really think he does despite this boards prejudice against him at this point), I'd try and trade him to Montreal for Florida's 1st round pick. That is if Florida recovers and that pick ends up in the 20s rather then the teens anyway, if they dont recover and end up missing playoffs Montreal wont trade that pick I dont imagine.

So something like Wideman + Florida 2023 1st + Pittsburgh 2023 4th for Girard. Get a decent, cheap puck moving bottom pairing Dman out of the deal in Wideman as well.

Personally I also think a Hayes trade might work better with Newhook going the other way as well. As I really think if he isn't going to be a Center solution for us, he's more valuable as a trade chip then as a 3rd line winger that we likely have to pay $3M+ for this summer. A couple Flyers fans on the main board seem more interested in getting roster players/warm bodies back in a Hayes deal over draft picks anyways...

I suggested Newhook + Olausson for Hayes @50% essentially.


If they did those two deals... They could go into free agency next summer with a roster of:


Lehky(4.5) - Mack(12.6) - Mikko(9.25)
Landy(7.0) - Hayes(3.6)- Nuke(6.125)
???? - ???? - ????
LOC(1.05) - ???? - ????

Toews(4.1) - Makar(9.0)
Byram(RFA) - Manson(4.5)
???? - Wideman(0.8)
MacDonald(0.7) - MacDermid(1.0)


George(3.4)
Frank(2.0)


That would be roughly $69.625M. At an $83.5M cap they'd still have almost $14M left to work with and 7 roster spots to fill. Bridge Byram for 2-3 years in the neighborhood of what Dobson got last summer($4M) and then they'd have $10M for 5 bottom 6 forwards and a #5/6D. Sign a cheap veteran 4C for league minimum like an Eric Staal or Derek Stepan sort(Or a Darren Helm but dont overpay like we did this past summer), Ben Meyers would get a spot on a cheap RFA deal as well.


And on top of all that, we wouldn't have moved our 2023 1st round pick, and we'd have gained another 1st from the Girard trade so they could target really good value 3rd liners with those picks in trade like Tampa did when they traded for Coleman/Hagel recently... Or simply hang onto the picks and restock the prospect cupboards a bit in a very deep, very strong draft.
 
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IF we can get Hayes at 50% for a 2024 1st+Ranta and/or Kaut (I don’t think that’s crazy to think) the Avs should pull the trigger on that. Run lines next year of:

Landy-MacK-Nuke
Lehkonen-Hayes-Rantanen
Newhook-???-LOC
Bowers-Meyers-Maltsev

We wouldn’t even have to trade Girard in this scenario.
 
Perratrooper said:
IF we can get Hayes at 50% for a 2024 1st+Ranta and/or Kaut (I don’t think that’s crazy to think) the Avs should pull the trigger on that. Run lines next year of:

Landy-MacK-Nuke
Lehkonen-Hayes-Rantanen
Newhook-???-LOC
Bowers-Meyers-Maltsev

We wouldn’t even have to trade Girard in this scenario.
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Yes they would.

I also replied to you on the main boards but I'll jump on it a bit more here. We cant afford Newhook as a 3rd line winger going forward, which is why I think we're better off trading him and hanging onto future draft pick capital. He's going to get anywhere from $3-4M on a bridge deal next summer(I would say closer to $3M, similar to what Yamamoto just got) and the Avs simply do not have the cap space to be paying 3rd liner wingers $3M+ anymore.


Then when you look at our future draft pick capital...

- 2023 the Avs already only have 4 picks total in that draft. 1st, 5th, 6th, and 7th. So really only 1 pick with good value.
- 2024 is more of the same. Only 4 picks in a draft that's still 1.5 years away. 1st, 4th, 6th, and 7th.


Then when you look at our prospect pool, its arguably the worst pool in the league and certainly bottom 5 at this point.

The Avs are at a point in out contending window where in order for the window to truly stay open, they need to start getting good ELC contributions from players soon, and right now we dont have the prospect pool to get those contributions, and we dont have the draft picks to build that up anytime soon either.


So at this point, it is far more valuable for us to hang onto as many good draft picks as we can, and find other ways to get better at the NHL level.


Moving out Newhook in a deal for Hayes instead of a 1st round pick, would be one of those ways.
 
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Pierce Hawthorne said:
Yes they would.

I also replied to you on the main boards but I'll jump on it a bit more here. We cant afford Newhook as a 3rd line winger going forward, which is why I think we're better off trading him and hanging onto future draft pick capital. He's going to get anywhere from $3-4M on a bridge deal next summer(I would say closer to $3M, similar to what Yamamoto just got) and the Avs simply do not have the cap space to be paying 3rd liner wingers $3M+ anymore.


Then when you look at our future draft pick capital...

- 2023 the Avs already only have 4 picks total in that draft. 1st, 5th, 6th, and 7th. So really only 1 pick with good value.
- 2024 is more of the same. Only 4 picks in a draft that's still 1.5 years away. 1st, 4th, 6th, and 7th.


Then when you look at our prospect pool, its arguably the worst pool in the league and certainly bottom 5 at this point.

The Avs are at a point in out contending window where in order for the window to truly stay open, they need to start getting good ELC contributions from players soon, and right now we dont have the prospect pool to get those contributions, and we dont have the draft picks to build that up anytime soon either.


So at this point, it is far more valuable for us to hang onto as many good draft picks as we can, and find other ways to get better at the NHL level.


Moving out Newhook in a deal for Hayes instead of a 1st round pick, would be one of those ways.
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If we sent Newhook+OO for Hayes at 50%, do you think we could get a pick back, like a 3rd or 4th?
 
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