Rumor: 2022-2023 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: The Search for a 2C

[Pokecheque]

I don’t disagree, Ullmark certainly has/had his issues but its not like it was drastically worse than Kuempers iirc.

Well, I won't lie and say I wasn't hugely concerned that the Avs swapped out one injury-prone goalie for another, glad it worked out even with Darcy tending goal with one functional eye.

In hindsight, I'm just glad they didn't end up with Freddy.

 

[Balthazar]

There were plenty of options that summer (including George that the Avs investigated).

When it comes to a legit 2C on the market, we really only have 4 or 5 at the very most. Horvat, ROR, Toews, and maybe a couple of Hayes, Jenner, Domi, and Roslovic. I'd argue some are not 2C quality (Toews, Jenner, Domi, Roslovic). Some may not make it to market (ROR, Hayes, Jenner). Which those combos that overlap probably mean that maybe 2 or 3 quality 2Cs are available right now. Not really any different than what the goalie picture was then, especially if you rule out Horvat as unaffordable.

Horvat is simply too expensive for a rental and Avs don't have the cap space re-up him.

 

[redacted]

Horvat is simply too expensive for a rental and Avs don't have the cap space re-up him.

So then... how is it not like Kuemper? There are not a ton of legit 2C options available and there is a pretty large hole in the lineup.

 

[Perratrooper]

I hope they manage to trade for Hayes at 50% retained for a minor asset and he can round out our top 6. Probably a pipe dream, but worth looking at given everything that is happening in Philly.

 

[redacted]

I hope they manage to trade for Hayes at 50% retained for a minor asset and he can round out our top 6. Probably a pipe dream, but worth looking at given everything that is happening in Philly.

If the Avs can get Hayes for 5.5m per or under, he'd be pretty ideal... at 50% though, you're not talking a minor asset. The going rate for a first rounder is roughy $6m (Marleau/Monahan). You're asking Philly for roughly $10m in that deal.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Apparently there's some rumors(Probably not good ones as they were started by Larry Brooks supposedly) that the Flyers are even considering a buyout for Hayes next summer.


If that were true, the buyout would cost them $9.6M in real money and cap hits of $2.25M next year, $4.5M each of the next 2 years and then $1.6M for 3 more years after that.


So if Philly is considering a buyout, you'd have to think they would take practically nothing if they could move him at say a $5.0M cap hit(So ~$2.15M retained). At that point they would save $3M in real money compared to buying him out, and they would save $250k in cap space next year, $2.35M in space the following two years, and $1.6M for the 3 years after that.



And the Avs would get a decent 2C for a very reasonable $5M cap hit for 3 more years.

 

[Perratrooper]

If the Avs can get Hayes for 5.5m per or under, he'd be pretty ideal... at 50% though, you're not talking a minor asset. The going rate for a first rounder is roughy $6m (Marleau/Monahan). You're asking Philly for roughly $10m in that deal.

The way I see it, they‘ll either buy Hayes out or trade him with significant retention in order to return assets. The return at 50% even if it costs a first would be well worth it in the grand scheme of things imo.

If you ask some disgruntled Flyers fans, they’d ship him out at 50% retained for free as they’d prefer that over the long term cap hit.

 

[Avsboy]

Newhook has been on fire recently

 

[Balthazar]

If the Avs can get Hayes for 5.5m per or under, he'd be pretty ideal... at 50% though, you're not talking a minor asset. The going rate for a first rounder is roughy $6m (Marleau/Monahan). You're asking Philly for roughly $10m in that deal.

5.5M is still a lot. He was a healthy scratch last game despite being the best scorer on the team. They are probably dying to move his ass somewhere else.

The downside is obviously that he's probably full of red flags.

At 50% we're talking 3.57M AAV for 3 more years after this one. Probably a risk that the Avs are willing to take.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Newhook has been on fire recently

On the wing. The dude will be a very good 2nd line winger. He just doesn't have it at C.

 

[ANewHope]

On the wing. The dude will be a very good 2nd line winger. He just doesn't have it at C.

Agreed. I still think it's more an issue with his hockey IQ than his skating tho. I think on the wing with less responsibilities he's able to just skate and simplify his game. He just looks lost at C. He's not able to utilize any of his tools because he's a step or two behind the play.

To me he's kind of the opposite of Jost. Jost was a really smart player with no tools. Newhook has all the tools but his on ice awareness isn't impressive. He reminds me of Duchene. Less skilled and I don't think he has the same peak but much like Duchene will be better off on the wing.

 

[Avsboy]

On the wing. The dude will be a very good 2nd line winger. He just doesn't have it at C.

Landeskog-Mackinnon-Nichushkin
Lehkonen-Rantanen-Newhook

Future long term top 6.

 

[ANewHope]

So then... how is it not like Kuemper? There are not a ton of legit 2C options available and there is a pretty large hole in the lineup.

I think Kuemper was a panic move and Sakic absolutely thought it was going to work out and we'd re-sign him. I think it was very similar to Lehky/Manson but how Darcy played in the playoffs just ended any hope of him coming back. I don't think they'll make a panic move for a 2C. Kuemper is one example out of a bunch. Avs tend to be very patient which could end up being a mistake depending on what happens with the 2C spot.

We'll see what happens but I don't think the Avs make a move for a rental and give up lots of assets. I think they'll have a limit for rentals. I don't see Newhook getting moved for a rental for example.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Newhook has been on fire recently

Hes been adequate. Jordan Kyrou has been on fire.

 

[redacted]

The way I see it, they‘ll either buy Hayes out or trade him with significant retention in order to return assets. The return at 50% even if it costs a first would be well worth it in the grand scheme of things imo.

If you ask some disgruntled Flyers fans, they’d ship him out at 50% retained for free as they’d prefer that over the long term cap hit.

Just saying we know the price on picks and we are far beyond that. It won’t be as cheap as people think for 50% and I’d argue that fans don’t really get values all that well and don’t take into account cash flow.

Newhook has been on fire recently

Ok… if this is on fire, it still isn’t amazing. But shows he’s much better at wing. So where does he fit at that point?

I think Kuemper was a panic move and Sakic absolutely thought it was going to work out and we'd re-sign him. I think it was very similar to Lehky/Manson but how Darcy played in the playoffs just ended any hope of him coming back. I don't think they'll make a panic move for a 2C. Kuemper is one example out of a bunch. Avs tend to be very patient which could end up being a mistake depending on what happens with the 2C spot.

We'll see what happens but I don't think the Avs make a move for a rental and give up lots of assets. I think they'll have a limit for rentals. I don't see Newhook getting moved for a rental for example.

We will see in the end… just saying Avs have paid before. Kuemper was always going to demand average starter salary. That he roughly got. Can’t imagine the Avs didn’t see that coming…

 

[sethro109]

Ok… if this is on fire, it still isn’t amazing. But shows he’s much better at wing. So where does he fit at that point?

Well if he just can't be a center in the NHL, then we still need a good Bura replacement. Still a second line player, just not the one to replace Kadri.

 

[redacted]

Well if he just can't be a center in the NHL, then we still need a good Bura replacement. Still a second line player, just not the one to replace Kadri.

The Avs replaced Burkie with Lehky longer term. But hard to replace his goals in general.

 

[sethro109]

The Avs replaced Burkie with Lehky longer term. But hard to replace his goals in general.

I had a mental lapse and forgot we already had 4 top 6 wingers. It's been so long since we've seen Landy, I forgot about the captain.

But depth isn't a bad thing until his big payday comes up. We can just roll with him on the 3rs line for a while I guess...

 

[redacted]

I had a mental lapse and forgot we already had 4 top 6 wingers. It's been so long since we've seen Landy, I forgot about the captain.

But depth isn't a bad thing until his big payday comes up. We can just roll with him on the 3rs line for a while I guess...

Which I’m fine with… but if Newhook can help solve the 2C issue via a trade… by all means

 

[Hasbro]

You jest... but not having Cam Lund in the system is something that people will pine about in 2-3 years.

When people claim the Avs won't trade for a rental, won't overpay, have to always have value, etc. etc... The Kuemper trade is the antithesis. They made pretty expensive trade when the Avs had a huge organizational hole. The value sucks on it, but it doesn't matter because the Avs won the Cup. That's all that really matters.

Paying Geo $2.5M less than Grubauer will also come in handy the next three seasons.

 

[redacted]

Paying Geo $2.5M less than Grubauer will also come in handy the next three seasons.

I’m fine with the route of just going average and cheap each year. It’ll just cost picks every couple to few years.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

I’m fine with the route of just going average and cheap each year. It’ll just cost picks every couple to few years.

No it won't because the Avs will find a goalie through the draft....oh wait...what am I saying? Carry on...

 

[The Merchant]

Man did we pay through the nose for Kuemper.

I was looking at the upcoming Avs picks on Capfriendly, we are already missing most of our 2023 picks but many 2024 as well. I then remembered that our 3rd 2024 was also in the Kuemper trade because we won the cup.

1st + 3rd + Timmins

Damn.

Yep it hurt then and it especially hurts now knowing a child fitted with a traffic cone would've been comparable to Darcy's play in the playoffs. But hey, a Cup's a Cup. At the end of the day those things are priceless.

 

[CobraAcesS]

You should probably take a look at Girards stats and metrics from last season if you think his garbage play is just isolated to this year.

I don't know if I specified years, or a time frame, but it's pretty obvious Girard is going through growing pains as a player, and he does not have the leash he'd have other places. I just think he's young, the skating is still there, and he has some shit to figure out. One thing our coach seems capable of is working guys through it. He'll be fine, but yeah it would be nice if he stepped up during injuries like he's done such a good job doing in the past.

This is a significant impact. Not necessarily the wingers but his quality of linemates in general.


It's honestly not even worth getting into though. The advanced stats that aren't available to the public paint a very different picture regarding Girard.

Defensively he's been very solid this year. Offensively you'd like to see more, but when you're most common forward linemates are the likes of Newhook, Cogliano, Dryden Hunt, etc.... Not as easy to produce raw production in those minutes.

Yeah, I just figured we'd see a lot of weird stuff this year good and bad trying to watch this team play after not replacing Kadri or Bura.

I figured if this team did anything this year it would be on the back of our team game. So my mentality towards players having off years that are part of the core is patience for everyone lol.

Also, no to trading Girard or Byram until one of them figures their shit out. I also think Toews will be fine as our 2C, and might even surprise us in the playoffs, and stay. Sakic is his idol, so it's destiny anyway. That's not the worst, or the best move we could make, but I am really curious to see what he'd do just focusing on winning again and not being the Captain of a rebuilding team.

Mack would quit the NHL at that point lol.

 

[dahrougem2]

5.5M is still a lot. He was a healthy scratch last game despite being the best scorer on the team. They are probably dying to move his ass somewhere else.

The downside is obviously that he's probably full of red flags.

At 50% we're talking 3.57M AAV for 3 more years after this one. Probably a risk that the Avs are willing to take.

How is the downside that he's probably full of red flags? Because Torts decides to scratch him?

You do realize John Tortorella isn't right on everything? You've pointed to this as being a negative on Hayes and pointed to Torts' words on McDavid/Draisaitl in the playoffs (despite them getting to the WCF last season) as some sort of gospel.