Rumor: 2022-2023 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: The Search for a 2C

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Is dach playing C at all in Montreal?

Habs fan here. Not recently, they seem to want him to get his confidence back 1st but he is still a possibility at centre. He has been playing real well as a winger on top line. His Face-offs are awful and it seems to affect the rest of his play when he has to take draws. Habs have been using Suzuki, Dvorak, Monahan and Evans at centre.

I could see Monahan (4th in points on team with 14) as a fit with you guys. He has been impressive playing mostly centre with a mixed bag of wingers - currently with Anderson and the Armia (who remains pointless). He is habs top face-off guy with a win % over 55% on about 300 draws taken. While he is the 2 or 3rd line centre he is put on the ice to take a lot of draws or as insurance if the other guy gets kicked out. Playing as 4th forward on PP since Hoffman got hurt. He appears to be fully healthy no issues with the hips. The eye test says he is probably the 3rd best F on the team after Suzuki Caulfield. 3rd in ice-time among forwards as well.

He will be available at 50% retained by the deadline or earlier
 
The situation with Formenton needs to be solved by Dec 1st for him to play this NHL season. I know about his possible involvement with the Canada Team mess… but, if Ottawa would accept a swap with Ranta (plus a conditional 2/3rd eventually), would you do it?
 
The situation with Formenton needs to be solved by Dec 1st for him to play this NHL season. I know about his possible involvement with the Canada Team mess… but, if Ottawa would accept a swap with Ranta (plus a conditional 2/3rd eventually), would you do it?
Nope. I do not want to deal with whatever potential mess that will come with the Team Canada investigation.
 
Considering ERod was the 2C prior to getting hurt I would argue that the Avs are starting to admit Newy is not a C. I would also argue that they don't yet feel urgency because
1. They are still winning most of their games,
2. some guys are getting closer to coming back, so
3. it allows them to wait as close as they can to the TDL to get a 2C when it will be more affordable for them cap-wise.

The Avs showed signs of admitting it last season too when Newhook got demoted and eventually replaced by Sturm. Yet, they circled back around to try it again thinking it could work this time. Strictly my opinion but I think the Avs scouts and staff really have a hard time evaluating what works at center in today's NHL.

The winning and injuries play a part in their reluctance during the season, but it doesn't change their reluctance during the summer. The Avs could have worked to solve the issue, they just chose not to pull the trigger. Instead they prioritized signing Manson and keeping EJ over the costs of a 2C.

The waiting for it to be more affordable cap wise is bit of a catch 22. With the injuries the Avs have (and all teams go through it so they knew this would happen), the Avs are basically accruing the absolute bare minimum. As things stand, it may actually be pretty difficult to have any space at the deadline and acquire anybody without sending major salary out. Been a bit since I looked, but last time I looked, Avs were tracking to less than 200k in room at the deadline. Even with massive retention, that isn't close to enough to get anybody of quality.
 
The Avs showed signs of admitting it last season too when Newhook got demoted and eventually replaced by Sturm. Yet, they circled back around to try it again thinking it could work this time. Strictly my opinion but I think the Avs scouts and staff really have a hard time evaluating what works at center in today's NHL.

The winning and injuries play a part in their reluctance during the season, but it doesn't change their reluctance during the summer. The Avs could have worked to solve the issue, they just chose not to pull the trigger. Instead they prioritized signing Manson and keeping EJ over the costs of a 2C.

The waiting for it to be more affordable cap wise is bit of a catch 22. With the injuries the Avs have (and all teams go through it so they knew this would happen), the Avs are basically accruing the absolute bare minimum. As things stand, it may actually be pretty difficult to have any space at the deadline and acquire anybody without sending major salary out. Been a bit since I looked, but last time I looked, Avs were tracking to less than 200k in room at the deadline. Even with massive retention, that isn't close to enough to get anybody of quality.

Yea. They ignored the #3C position for 4-5 years and now have moved on to ignoring the #2C position too. Pretty crazy blind spot to have. And if they don’t repeat, it will be the main reason by far.
 
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The Avs showed signs of admitting it last season too when Newhook got demoted and eventually replaced by Sturm. Yet, they circled back around to try it again thinking it could work this time. Strictly my opinion but I think the Avs scouts and staff really have a hard time evaluating what works at center in today's NHL.

The winning and injuries play a part in their reluctance during the season, but it doesn't change their reluctance during the summer. The Avs could have worked to solve the issue, they just chose not to pull the trigger. Instead they prioritized signing Manson and keeping EJ over the costs of a 2C.

The waiting for it to be more affordable cap wise is bit of a catch 22. With the injuries the Avs have (and all teams go through it so they knew this would happen), the Avs are basically accruing the absolute bare minimum. As things stand, it may actually be pretty difficult to have any space at the deadline and acquire anybody without sending major salary out. Been a bit since I looked, but last time I looked, Avs were tracking to less than 200k in room at the deadline. Even with massive retention, that isn't close to enough to get anybody of quality.
Although the Avs always seem to have a lot of injuries nobody could have predicted so many precluding them from accruing cap space.

As for the 2C I have no problem with their decision this summer to wait and give one last kick at the can with Newy at C. He only had one season in the NHL. Some players take longer to adjust to the NHL. Granted the Avs are not in a position to wait very long being contender but I hardly giving him 15-20 games a mistake. We all prefer Newy on the wing but with a healthy top-6 who knows how he would have progress? Most likely it still fails but like I said I had no issue with them trying it one last time. Again the problem is we have so many injuries that we now can't accrue cap space and with ERod out they have to put him back at C.
 
Considering ERod was the 2C prior to getting hurt I would argue that the Avs are starting to admit Newy is not a C. I would also argue that they don't yet feel urgency because
1. They are still winning most of their games,
2. some guys are getting closer to coming back, so
3. it allows them to wait as close as they can to the TDL to get a 2C when it will be more affordable for them cap-wise.
Not even sleepy Joe is blind to the massive hole at 2C on this current roster. A trade will need to be made at some point. Winning games now just takes pressure off a panic trade and alleviates some urgency.
 
Although the Avs always seem to have a lot of injuries nobody could have predicted so many precluding them from accruing cap space.

As for the 2C I have no problem with their decision this summer to wait and give one last kick at the can with Newy at C. He only had one season in the NHL. Some players take longer to adjust to the NHL. Granted the Avs are not in a position to wait very long being contender but I hardly giving him 15-20 games a mistake. We all prefer Newy on the wing but with a healthy top-6 who knows how he would have progress? Most likely it still fails but like I said I had no issue with them trying it one last time. Again the problem is we have so many injuries that we now can't accrue cap space and with ERod out they have to put him back at C.
By cap space, it really only would have take 3 injuries. Pretty normal to have happen.

My criticism lies in thinking Newhook was at all an option. It should have been very clear to anybody in the staff that he wasn’t capable of that role. More so, it should have been clear he didn’t have the skill set for it in his draft year. I’ve been preaching that since before he was drafted. It shows a real weakness in not only addressing needs but in talent evaluation. Avs simply can’t seem to target the right guys for center. IMO because they don’t value size and don’t evaluate skating well enough.
 
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Colorado management is very methodical. The reason a Kadri replacement wasn't brought in yet is due to some combination of fit and price. MacFarland and Sakic always come through, and the season is still young.

Right now, guys just need to get healthy. The 12 fill in players (Hunt, Kaut, et al) have combined for 2 goals and 3 assists over the last month-plus, and most of that was in one game by Kaut during the Finland series against Columbus. These injuries have been brutal.
 
The Avs shopping for a new 2C reminds me of the last time I built my own PC. While putting the component list together there is always a newer, shinier, potentially more effective/efficient CPU,GPU just around the corner. It can lead to inaction because you keep waiting for the perfect piece.

At this point, if there is a C available that the Avs like, they should probably just go ahead and pay the cost and be done with it. That said, it takes two to tango and since everyone knows we have a glaring hole at 2C, it won't be cheap to fill.
 
The Avs shopping for a new 2C reminds me of the last time I built my own PC. While putting the component list together there is always a newer, shinier, potentially more effective/efficient CPU,GPU just around the corner. It can lead to inaction because you keep waiting for the perfect piece.

At this point, if there is a C available that the Avs like, they should probably just go ahead and pay the cost and be done with it. That said, it takes two to tango and since everyone knows we have a glaring hole at 2C, it won't be cheap to fill.
This is way too often forgotten by the "2C should have already been solved by now" croud.
 
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This is way too often forgotten by the "2C should have already been solved by now" croud.
I think that definitely happens here and I’m certainly guilty of it. But I think that looking at the 2C spot this year was a bit more than wanting something new and shiny.
 
I think that definitely happens here and I’m certainly guilty of it. But I think that looking at the 2C spot this year was a bit more than wanting something new and shiny.
Never said that. All I'm saying is that people very often forget that it takes two to tango and other teams will try to take advantage of another team that is in a bad situation. Let's not forget there is a cap also.

For the record I want a 2C as much as everybody else but I just realize it is not easy to accomplish especially for the right fit.
 
The Avs shopping for a new 2C reminds me of the last time I built my own PC. While putting the component list together there is always a newer, shinier, potentially more effective/efficient CPU,GPU just around the corner. It can lead to inaction because you keep waiting for the perfect piece.

At this point, if there is a C available that the Avs like, they should probably just go ahead and pay the cost and be done with it. That said, it takes two to tango and since everyone knows we have a glaring hole at 2C, it won't be cheap to fill.

It is all about motivation... 2Cs are always available, just a matter of which ones, if they fit, and the price to pay. Avs were in the Kadri sweepstakes until near the end, and they just weren't motivated enough to send EJ packing.

Never said that. All I'm saying is that people very often forget that it takes two to tango and other teams will try to take advantage of another team that is in a bad situation. Let's not forget there is a cap also.

For the record I want a 2C as much as everybody else but I just realize it is not easy to accomplish especially for the right fit.
The cap is kinda the fault of the Avs... the prioritized re-signing Manson and keeping EJ over getting a 2C. If they simply wouldn't have re-signed Manson and didn't sign ERod, they could have signed Kadri. Or just sent a first with EJ to Anaheim.
 
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It is all about motivation... 2Cs are always available, just a matter of which ones, if they fit, and the price to pay. Avs were in the Kadri sweepstakes until near the end, and they just weren't motivated enough to send EJ packing.


The cap is kinda the fault of the Avs... the prioritized re-signing Manson and keeping EJ over getting a 2C. If they simply wouldn't have re-signed Manson and didn't sign ERod, they could have signed Kadri. Or just sent a first with EJ to Anaheim.
None of these options were very appealing though. Yes we need to take advantage of our window but...

If the 2023 draft is as good as people say that 1st is a high price to pay to get rid of EJ's cap. Although one could argue that the way they draft they might have as well done it.

Signing Kadri for 7-8 years at 32 yr old was very dangerous as well. Obviously Kadri didn't want to sign a shorter term deal. He could have regressed on his first year of his deal. Some could argue he already did looking at his 5v5 production.

We are also forgetting that we have no idea what Sakic/CMac short and long term plans are for the team. Call me crazy but I'll trust the FO and the team's pro scouts that brought a SC last year. What looks like a lack of urgency to you could just be patience from them. Heck they might already have a handshake agreement with another team but are just waiting for the right time to make it official. Nobody knows.
 
None of these options were very appealing though. Yes we need to take advantage of our window but...

If the 2023 draft is as good as people say that 1st is a high price to pay to get rid of EJ's cap. Although one could argue that the way they draft they might have as well done it.

Signing Kadri for 7-8 years at 32 yr old was very dangerous as well. Obviously Kadri didn't want to sign a shorter term deal. He could have regressed on his first year of his deal. Some could argue he already did looking at his 5v5 production.

We are also forgetting that we have no idea what Sakic/CMac short and long term plans are for the team. Call me crazy but I'll trust the FO and the team's pro scouts that brought a SC last year. What looks like a lack of urgency to you could just be patience from them. Heck they might already have a handshake agreement with another team but are just waiting for the right time to make it official. Nobody knows.
I think that Avs management probably have a different outlook than most fans. I would hope that they could certainly see that there is a difference between :

Lekhonen-MacKinnon-Rantanen
Galchenyuk-Newhook-Kaut/Foudy

and

Lekhonen-MacKinnon-Rantanen
Landeskog-Newhook-Nichushkin

...when making an evaluation on the potential of whether a kid like Newhook can or cannot produce as a #2C.

This team has had a RIDICULOUS amount of injuries to key players and are STILL comfortably in a playoff spot while the same cannot be said about a few of the teams we beat on the way to the Stanley Cup finals. I think it's safe to say that the front office likely would like to improve the team if they can and if it makes sense but probably don't feel the same urgency right now that most fans seem to.
 
Colorado management is very methodical. The reason a Kadri replacement wasn't brought in yet is due to some combination of fit and price. MacFarland and Sakic always come through, and the season is still young.

Right now, guys just need to get healthy. The 12 fill in players (Hunt, Kaut, et al) have combined for 2 goals and 3 assists over the last month-plus, and most of that was in one game by Kaut during the Finland series against Columbus. These injuries have been brutal.

1669838623651.png


Look at teams like NJ/BOS/Veg/Tor. We're not the only team that's had significant injuries. It's a terrible excuse.
 
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None of these options were very appealing though. Yes we need to take advantage of our window but...

If the 2023 draft is as good as people say that 1st is a high price to pay to get rid of EJ's cap. Although one could argue that the way they draft they might have as well done it.

Signing Kadri for 7-8 years at 32 yr old was very dangerous as well. Obviously Kadri didn't want to sign a shorter term deal. He could have regressed on his first year of his deal. Some could argue he already did looking at his 5v5 production.

We are also forgetting that we have no idea what Sakic/CMac short and long term plans are for the team. Call me crazy but I'll trust the FO and the team's pro scouts that brought a SC last year. What looks like a lack of urgency to you could just be patience from them. Heck they might already have a handshake agreement with another team but are just waiting for the right time to make it official. Nobody knows.
Kadri wasn't going to replicate last year... players almost never do, especially if it happens past 30. More or less, the Avs simply didn't feel the 2C spot was enough of an issue to solve.

Call me crazy, but I think the Avs could have had a Cup prior to last year if they were more aggressive. Teams rarely push hard enough, early enough in windows. I think the patience from years prior hurt the chances of winning multiple cups in the window. That said, winning even one is a huge win and makes the whole window a success.

Again though, my worry is the Avs simply don't value center enough and they combine that with being poor evaluators at what skill sets work at center. Newhook is not the only or last smaller, average to above average skating center the Avs have tried to fit into the 2C role. I think the pro scouts tend to be very good and can solve issues... but those issues are simply like taking a 2nd or 3rd mortgage out on a house. You can do it and it solves the bills of today... but those bills come due. Plus when you end up in a situation where assets have declining value, it hurts the ability to solve issues with said assets.

When we look at what assets the Avs have to solve the 2C issue, you have 23 1st, 24 1st, Newhook, OO, and Behrens. Unless you package them all together and bet the whole farm, you're unlikely to get more than a rental. The other piece is really Byram and he could singlehandedly solve the issue if he get a clean bill of health. Now I already hear the calls of G here... but by the day, his ability to solve the 2C spot is dwindling. Takes a team that doesn't care about size and is willing this shake off injury concerns, playoff performance concerns, and regression concerns... that's a small pool for a 2C sort of deal. For a 2nd line winger, you could very easily find a deal for G.
I think that Avs management probably have a different outlook than most fans. I would hope that they could certainly see that there is a difference between :

Lekhonen-MacKinnon-Rantanen
Galchenyuk-Newhook-Kaut/Foudy

and

Lekhonen-MacKinnon-Rantanen
Landeskog-Newhook-Nichushkin

...when making an evaluation on the potential of whether a kid like Newhook can or cannot produce as a #2C.

This team has had a RIDICULOUS amount of injuries to key players and are STILL comfortably in a playoff spot while the same cannot be said about a few of the teams we beat on the way to the Stanley Cup finals. I think it's safe to say that the front office likely would like to improve the team if they can and if it makes sense but probably don't feel the same urgency right now that most fans seem to.
Avs should be looking at the skill set of Newhook and how it just doesn't work as a 2C. Center is too difficult of position to just cover up and win without. It has happened, but it is rare.
 
I think that Avs management probably have a different outlook than most fans. I would hope that they could certainly see that there is a difference between :

Lekhonen-MacKinnon-Rantanen
Galchenyuk-Newhook-Kaut/Foudy

and

Lekhonen-MacKinnon-Rantanen
Landeskog-Newhook-Nichushkin

...when making an evaluation on the potential of whether a kid like Newhook can or cannot produce as a #2C.

This team has had a RIDICULOUS amount of injuries to key players and are STILL comfortably in a playoff spot while the same cannot be said about a few of the teams we beat on the way to the Stanley Cup finals. I think it's safe to say that the front office likely would like to improve the team if they can and if it makes sense but probably don't feel the same urgency right now that most fans seem to.

Show me Newhooks stats/underlyings when he was sitting between Nuke and Erod at the beginning of the season for the first two weeks.
 
View attachment 615139

Look at teams like NJ/BOS/Veg/Tor. We're not the only team that's had significant injuries. It's a terrible excuse.

Excuse for what? I was just pointing out the big focus for Colorado right now is getting healthy.

I do find it strange that you pointed out those three teams. New Jersey has significantly fewer man games lost than Colorado; Boston also less and their injuries were front loaded (Marchand/McAvoy have returned); Vegas's number is driven by Lehner, Patrick, and freakin' Shea Weber.
 
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