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2022-2023 Around The League

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NJ got their #1 goalie back in Blackwood and started winning again. Was a major part of that win against Florida.

Speaking of that game...


 
TruePowerSlave said:
The production is absurd and if it continues a top 3 Norris finish is guaranteed. However, this version of EK is more or less a 4th forward gambling on offense all the time with suspect defense. Hard to argue that is the best Dman on the planet.

Generational Cale won't be a finalist unless he scores more, that seem to be the main criteria anyway.
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This is kind of a silly slant to take. It’s not absurd to say Cale needs to score more if he wants to repeat as the Norris winner. His offense is what defines him. He’s better defensively than Josi or Karlsson but the difference is not massive.

And you say this as if he has played great defensively during this stretch. He hasn’t. He’s done well considering but he has not been an elite shutdown guy by any stretch.
 
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Pokecheque said:
This is kind of a silly slant to take. It’s not absurd to say Cale needs to score more if he wants to repeat as the Norris winner. His offense is what defines him. He’s better defensively than Josi or Karlsson but the difference is not massive.

And you say this as if he has played great defensively during this stretch. He hasn’t. He’s done well considering but he has not been an elite shutdown guy by any stretch.
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I would argue there is a noticable gap defensively between those three. Makar plays on the teams shutdown pairing and doesn't cheat regularly to get points. You can trust Cale to go head to head with McDavid, kill vital penalties and run down the clock. With Josi and current EK it's best to have them focus almost exclusively on offense.
 
TruePowerSlave said:
I would argue there is a noticable gap defensively between those three. Makar plays on the teams shutdown pairing and doesn't cheat regularly to get points. You can trust Cale to go head to head with McDavid, kill vital penalties and run down the clock. With Josi and current EK it's best to have them focus almost exclusively on offense.
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EK kills penalties all the time. He did so long before Cale ever did.

Josi gets sheltered minutes but one could argue it’s because they can afford to shelter him. Nashville has always done well drafting and developing defensemen and goalies, it’s up front where they can’t seem to figure it out.

Also, one could argue Cale has an easier time of it because of the guy on the other side of the ice. Toews takes on a gigantic defensive burden and does a lot of stuff that allows Makar to do what he does. This as opposed to the absolute GARBAGE defensive partners Tyson Barrie got saddled with his entire time in Colorado.

Again, it’s a gap, yes, but not as “noticeable” as you think.
 
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Pokecheque said:
EK kills penalties all the time. He did so long before Cale ever did.
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Last column

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Oh and Cale doesn’t “cheat” regularly????????

:laugh:

Give me a break. He does all the time. Just so happens he has great support from his defensive partner and forwards. And, this year especially, his goaltender.

Balthazar said:
Last column

gOeJ5YV.png
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Okay so he’s not doing it now, he and Burns were the Sharks’ top PK pairing just a couple years ago.

Could be that EK’s resurgence is due in part to not having to log those kinds of minutes. We’ve been discussing it for a while now how that’s been hurting Makar’s game.
 
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Makar would surely produce more if he was given a similar role as many of the other offensive Dmen. Play as a rover, don't PK, no shutdown minutes etc. It would make him a less valuable player but increase the points and probably Norris chances.
 
It's easy to explain Makar's numbers. The team doesn't score goals (dead last 5v5 in the NHL) so he doesn't get assists + his shooting % has never been this low in the NHL.

Right now he's at 6.9%. Last season he was 11.7% (for the whole season).

So he doesn't score (kinda snakebitten) and the team around him doesn't score either.
 
Makar is having a down year and has no business getting the Norris unless he has a monster second half.

That being said he’s significantly better defensively than Josi/Karlsson/Barrie etc. defensively. Bizarre take to think otherwise based off a stretch of games after a cup win. He was incredible in the playoffs and last season.
 
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Pokecheque said:
Oh and Cale doesn’t “cheat” regularly????????

:laugh:

Give me a break. He does all the time. Just so happens he has great support from his defensive partner and forwards. And, this year especially, his goaltender.


Okay so he’s not doing it now, he and Burns were the Sharks’ top PK pairing just a couple years ago.

Could be that EK’s resurgence is due in part to not having to log those kinds of minutes. We’ve been discussing it for a while now how that’s been hurting Makar’s game.
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The greatest d men of all time, log big minutes , pk, pp , even strength, last min of play etc… Bourque, Orr, Potvin, Lidstrom, Pronger etc… that’s what sets them apart , the hall of gamers from the rest including Karlsson who may or may not even get in to the hall( he probably will but is an exception. ) Cale is going to be a career ppg defender who plays big mins in all situations. He’s not going to win the Norris every year but he will win a couple. Other d men are going to have better offensive seasons from time to time. Karlsson isn’t going to carry that sharks team to the playoffs and no contender can add Karlssons salary without hurting their team. He’s going to put up points on Mediocre teams for the rest of his career.
 
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I've got no issue with offensive-minded D getting some Norris recognition.
If it were truly about defensive skills, Adam Foote would've had a couple with Hatcher in the late 90s. Slavin and Pelech would be recent winners.
And it's been pretty balanced. Obviously Lidström won like a dozen times. Bourque. Hedman. Keith. Guys that were tough to face on both ends of the ice. Probably the most controversial pick of late was Doughty. People criticize it because he didn't pile up points. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
A guy like Karlsson is no Langway, but he's not a Carlyle, either. It's not just about the points - he's downright electrifying when he's on his game. Something we know firsthand with Makar.
 
avsfan9 said:
The greatest d men of all time, log big minutes , pk, pp , even strength, last min of play etc… Bourque, Orr, Potvin, Lidstrom, Pronger etc… that’s what sets them apart , the hall of gamers from the rest including Karlsson who may or may not even get in to the hall( he probably will but is an exception. ) Cale is going to be a career ppg defender who plays big mins in all situations. He’s not going to win the Norris every year but he will win a couple. Other d men are going to have better offensive seasons from time to time. Karlsson isn’t going to carry that sharks team to the playoffs and no contender can add Karlssons salary without hurting their team. He’s going to put up points on Mediocre teams for the rest of his career.
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If Florida had half a brain they'd trade for him yesterday. Unfortunately I think even then their mediocre coach wouldn't know what to do with him.

I dunno how many times I have to say it, KARLSSON CAN KILL PENALTIES. Just because he isn't this year doesn't mean he can't and that he hasn't before. In fact I harped in years' past about Bednar's horrid PK system and how he insisted on using his depth guys who simply could not skate well enough to do the job (I think that's the fault both of the defensemen he likes to use AND the system, but that's a discussion for another day) and looked directly at SJ as the solution, as Karlsson and Burns regularly killed penalties and did it relatively well. Sure enough, putting Makar on the PK led to an almost immediate fix. They veered away from him to start this season and had the very worst penalty kill in the league.

BTW this "rover" business is nonsense. He's a legit defenseman. Yes, he gets scorched sometimes, but I got news for ya, Bourque got burned plenty of times in his career, and this an A1 Raymond Jean Bourque fanboy typing this. Just because he doesn't play a "balanced" game like y'all keep harping about (neither does Cale, but none of you seem to want to acknowledge that) doesn't mean he isn't an elite talent and one of the most dynamic players to ever take the ice.

Karlsson carried PLENTY of bad to mediocre Sens teams for years. The reason it didn't happen in SJ is because by the time he finally showed up there, the core was already aged out. If he had been in Florida last postseason the Panthros would've wiped the floor with the Bolts.
 
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Pokecheque said:
If Florida had half a brain they'd trade for him yesterday. Unfortunately I think even then their mediocre coach wouldn't know what to do with him.

I dunno how many times I have to say it, KARLSSON CAN KILL PENALTIES. Just because he isn't this year doesn't mean he can't and that he hasn't before. In fact I harped in years' past about Bednar's horrid PK system and how he insisted on using his depth guys who simply could not skate well enough to do the job (I think that's the fault both of the defensemen he likes to use AND the system, but that's a discussion for another day) and looked directly at SJ as the solution, as Karlsson and Burns regularly killed penalties and did it relatively well. Sure enough, putting Makar on the PK led to an almost immediate fix. They veered away from him to start this season and had the very worst penalty kill in the league.

BTW this "rover" business is nonsense. He's a legit defenseman. Yes, he gets scorched sometimes, but I got news for ya, Bourque got burned plenty of times in his career, and this an A1 Raymond Jean Bourque fanboy typing this. Just because he doesn't play a "balanced" game like y'all keep harping about (neither does Cale, but none of you seem to want to acknowledge that) doesn't mean he isn't an elite talent and one of the most dynamic players to ever take the ice.

Karlsson carried PLENTY of bad to mediocre Sens teams for years. The reason it didn't happen in SJ is because by the time he finally showed up there, the core was already aged out. If he had been in Florida last postseason the Panthros would've wiped the floor with the Bolts.
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At this stage in his career where EK has had so many injuries and miles on his body can he PK 4 minutes a game and put up 40 points in 25 games or whatever insane stat line he has?

San Jose has plenty of plumbers that can PK but need to score to win and their D core doesn't look like anyone else can move the puck.

Bednar at least has Toews and Girard that can contribute offensively and a terrible PK.

Coaches generally utilize their players in a manner they think let's them win. EK is having a renaissance year and perhaps part of that is a reduction in defensive responsibilities. Nothing against him. Makar is seeing the opposite. Way tougher minutes and his scoring is taking a hit.
 
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I’ve said this before, but I still think it’s pretty cool that Calgary may have potentially produced two Norris trophy winners (if Morrissey keeps up his pace).

Watch, all this talk will be for naught when Makar goes off and takes the Norris again
 
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