Minor hockey tryouts (was: How to motivate a novice (or any) player for tryouts?)

[Mr Jiggyfly]

In the case of mine, it is not the leaving that caused it. It was because the kid and/or the parent(s) were a problem when here, left and had a lot to say about how they were wronged and of course it got back to the org. Cases of "been there, done that, not going there again."

That gets back to the “hockey is a smaller community” than most of these parents realize.

Some kids do get screwed with hockey politics being what they are, but you better be careful who you complain to about it.

 

[Yukon Joe]

That gets back to the “hockey is a smaller community” than most of these parents realize.

Some kids do get screwed with hockey politics being what they are, but you better be careful who you complain to about it.

So Jigglyfly, I wasn't there, I'm 100% not casting any judgment here.

There's a difference though between being the victim of hockey politics, and perpetrating hockey politics on someone else.

So I have no idea is the situation is "these parents screwed us over in the past therefore I want them to suffer now"

or

"these parents screwed us over in the past and they were a PITA anyways"

or

"these parents screwed us over in the past, but I think they learned their lesson"

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

So Jigglyfly, I wasn't there, I'm 100% not casting any judgment here.

There's a difference though between being the victim of hockey politics, and perpetrating hockey politics on someone else.

So I have no idea is the situation is "these parents screwed us over in the past therefore I want them to suffer now"

or

"these parents screwed us over in the past and they were a PITA anyways"

or

"these parents screwed us over in the past, but I think they learned their lesson"

I doubt most people running hockey programs want people to suffer for some past discretion, but they are human and may hold a grudge.

Don’t burn bridges and do shady stuff.

Don’t run your mouth about other org, players, parents, coaches, administrators, etc.

You never know who may turn around and tell ABC, even innocently, and it gets back to the wrong people.

Be respectful, show gratitude to coaches, team managers and anyone who helps your child - even if you don’t always agree with their decisions.

It shouldn’t be that difficult for hockey parents really - just don’t be an asshole and use your brain.

Unfortunately pounds of hockey parents can’t seem to follow these rules.

 

[patnyrnyg]

So Jigglyfly, I wasn't there, I'm 100% not casting any judgment here.

There's a difference though between being the victim of hockey politics, and perpetrating hockey politics on someone else.

So I have no idea is the situation is "these parents screwed us over in the past therefore I want them to suffer now"

or

"these parents screwed us over in the past and they were a PITA anyways"

or

"these parents screwed us over in the past, but I think they learned their lesson"

If I had to fathom a guess it is, "You screwed us over and we can't trust you not to do it again." If I was making the decision, again without knowing ALL the details and history I may offer them, "Sure, you are welcome to tryout, but you must pay the full tuition up front in cash. If you dont make the team, it is refunded. If you do, and then bail then no refund."

 

[timekeep]

There is a lot to be said about loyalty.

There's also a saying though "don't cut off your nose to spite your face". You shouldn't act out of revenge if it in fact goes against your own good interests.

So I only have a few paragraphs posted by @Mr Jiggyfly. I certainly can't judge what his hockey org should do one way or another.

But there should at least be the thought that, even, if those parents screwed over the club by signing commitment letters and then reneging on them, the wiser thing might be to just let bygones by bygones and let them come back.

So I've dealt with a similar situation - though not to the same number of kids. We've had kids try out, pay their initial fees, go through the whole evaluations process, only to ghost once the team was formed. Presumably they went to a private league. It sucks, and did hamper the team which was now down a body or two from what it should have had.

I just don't know that blackballing the kid and family for the rest of minor hockey is the best response.

I'm not familiar with the dynamics of the Jiggy's org either, but I have run organizations before and Spring teams where you put teams together without any boundaries or rules other than ages. It really sucks when people leave you at the last minute or week before a season starts. Those people soon become dead to me as we had to scramble to replace them. Some parents aren't worth screwing around with and the kid suffers. Seen it other sports other than hockey with girls volleyball and basketball.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I'm not familiar with the dynamics of the Jiggy's org either, but I have run organizations before and Spring teams where you put teams together without any boundaries or rules other than ages. It really sucks when people leave you at the last minute or week before a season starts. Those people soon become dead to me as we had to scramble to replace them. Some parents aren't worth screwing around with and the kid suffers. Seen it other sports other than hockey with girls volleyball and basketball.

The dynamics really aren’t complicated TBTH.

The org had tryouts, offers were made, all kids and their parents signed commitment contracts.

Three kids that signed their commitments backed out three weeks later when they all made another team.

My wife knew all of the moms of the kids and she told them what they were doing was shady, and the moms played coy like they were coming back.

Meanwhile my daughter’s team had to legally hold those rosters spots, even though we knew something shady was going on from my wife’s intel.

By the time these kids broke their contracts and declined their roster spots, all of the AA and AAA teams in the area had been made.

So there were’t any kids left to recruit that were legit AA players.

They had to have supplemental tryouts to fill the roster, which was a bunch of single A kids.

Tryouts looked like that scene from Youngblood where everyone was um… not good.

So they have played with a short roster all season.

Luckily they landed a superstar player who was pissed off at his org and he’s scored over 100 goals.

He’s been a gift from the hockey gods that this org deserved after getting screwed so hard.

A couple new kids have been really good as well.

So the team is better than last season, but one of their blue liners just broke his wrist Sunday.

Kids just have to double shift and hope fatigue doesn’t cause an injury - not much else they can do.

 

[patnyrnyg]

The dynamics really aren’t complicated TBTH.

The org had tryouts, offers were made, all kids and their parents signed commitment contracts.

Three kids that signed their commitments backed out three weeks later when they all made another team.

My wife knew all of the moms of the kids and she told them what they were doing was shady, and the moms played coy like they were coming back.

Meanwhile my daughter’s team had to legally hold those rosters spots, even though we knew something shady was going on from my wife’s intel.

By the time these kids broke their contracts and declined their roster spots, all of the AA and AAA teams in the area had been made.

So there were’t any kids left to recruit that were legit AA players.

They had to have supplemental tryouts to fill the roster, which was a bunch of single A kids.

Tryouts looked like that scene from Youngblood where everyone was um… not good.

So they have played with a short roster all season.

Luckily they landed a superstar player who was pissed off at his org and he’s scored over 100 goals.

He’s been a gift from the hockey gods that this org deserved after getting screwed so hard.

A couple new kids have been really good as well.

So the team is better than last season, but one of their blue liners just broke his wrist Sunday.

Kids just have to double shift and hope fatigue doesn’t cause an injury - not much else they can do.

What I don't understand is why they are allowed to back out after the commitment contract was signed. Here, they would need a release from the original team or they would get blocked from playing for the second team.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

What I don't understand is why they are allowed to back out after the commitment contract was signed. Here, they would need a release from the original team or they would get blocked from playing for the second team.

Youth contracts work differently here.

A kid is allowed to back out, but the parents surrender their commitment fee, which was $1000 in this case.

It’s a pretty good deterrent for many hockey parents to be shady, obviously.

However, all three kids have wealthy parents so that was chump change to them unfortunately.

As I said, karma is giving them a huge kick in the ass.

My daughter’s team is having a good season, most fun she’s ever had playing hockey.

Those three that left, their team has 4 wins on the season and haven’t won since Nov.

And as I mentioned before, one of the moms sent out some feelers to my wife about her son coming back - my wife was honest that they wouldn’t be welcomed back by the org or families.

 

[timekeep]

The dynamics really aren’t complicated TBTH.

The org had tryouts, offers were made, all kids and their parents signed commitment contracts.

Three kids that signed their commitments backed out three weeks later when they all made another team.

My wife knew all of the moms of the kids and she told them what they were doing was shady, and the moms played coy like they were coming back.

Meanwhile my daughter’s team had to legally hold those rosters spots, even though we knew something shady was going on from my wife’s intel.

By the time these kids broke their contracts and declined their roster spots, all of the AA and AAA teams in the area had been made.

So there were’t any kids left to recruit that were legit AA players.

They had to have supplemental tryouts to fill the roster, which was a bunch of single A kids.

Tryouts looked like that scene from Youngblood where everyone was um… not good.

So they have played with a short roster all season.

Luckily they landed a superstar player who was pissed off at his org and he’s scored over 100 goals.

He’s been a gift from the hockey gods that this org deserved after getting screwed so hard.

A couple new kids have been really good as well.

So the team is better than last season, but one of their blue liners just broke his wrist Sunday.

Kids just have to double shift and hope fatigue doesn’t cause an injury - not much else they can do.

With the 'dynamics' I'm referring to the rules of the zones, geography, etc. and you can't just take your kind anywhere you want. (But that may be changing in AB, not that close any longer). In winter hockey it falls under Hockey Canada and then the provinces, but there are school academies and independent leagues from Hockey Canada. In Spring/Summer hockey there is not a governing body that states the rules and there are more people moving around.

 

[Yukon Joe]

With the 'dynamics' I'm referring to the rules of the zones, geography, etc. and you can't just take your kind anywhere you want. (But that may be changing in AB, not that close any longer). In winter hockey it falls under Hockey Canada and then the provinces, but there are school academies and independent leagues from Hockey Canada. In Spring/Summer hockey there is not a governing body that states the rules and there are more people moving around.

In Alberta, not last year but the year before - we had several kids go through tryouts, get assigned to a team - and then just ghosted. We assume they went to HSL teams.

It's tough because as a parent you don't want to screw over other teams, but you do want to try and look out for your own kids best interests, because you know nobody else is.

Like in Jigglyfly's situation - you could argue that what the parents did was permitted. If you were willing to eat the $1000 deposit then you're allowed to bail. Now if those parents are asking about bailing on their existing team mid-season I would say HELL NO, but I wouldn't rule them out entirely from trying out next year if it made sense for the team and you know what you're getting into.

We just went through spring hockey tryouts here. Lots of kids went for tryouts - but we know several of them weren't real serious about playing for that team and probably declined spots if offered. Parents either viewed it as cheap ice time, or just wanted to see how their kids stacked up, or whatever. You can definitely argue that's not fair as it took ice time away from kids who would take a spot if offered, but it's not necessarily prevented or against the rules (not that there are many rules in Spring Hockey as you point out).

 

[timekeep]

In Alberta, not last year but the year before - we had several kids go through tryouts, get assigned to a team - and then just ghosted. We assume they went to HSL teams.

It's tough because as a parent you don't want to screw over other teams, but you do want to try and look out for your own kids best interests, because you know nobody else is.

Like in Jigglyfly's situation - you could argue that what the parents did was permitted. If you were willing to eat the $1000 deposit then you're allowed to bail. Now if those parents are asking about bailing on their existing team mid-season I would say HELL NO, but I wouldn't rule them out entirely from trying out next year if it made sense for the team and you know what you're getting into.

We just went through spring hockey tryouts here. Lots of kids went for tryouts - but we know several of them weren't real serious about playing for that team and probably declined spots if offered. Parents either viewed it as cheap ice time, or just wanted to see how their kids stacked up, or whatever. You can definitely argue that's not fair as it took ice time away from kids who would take a spot if offered, but it's not necessarily prevented or against the rules (not that there are many rules in Spring Hockey as you point out).

I recall during our first spring hockey tryouts, we went to three teams in one weekend. Didn't return for one of them as it conflicted with the another. Somehow we didn't have any winter conflicts either. Back then they were only about $100-150 for a 2-3 skates. The teams were using them as a fundraiser too as there were limited spots open, but it was extra ice and self evaluation to see where everyone stacked up.

 

[Minnesota Knudsens]

Youth contracts work differently here.

A kid is allowed to back out, but the parents surrender their commitment fee, which was $1000 in this case.

It’s a pretty good deterrent for many hockey parents to be shady, obviously.

However, all three kids have wealthy parents so that was chump change to them unfortunately.

As I said, karma is giving them a huge kick in the ass.

My daughter’s team is having a good season, most fun she’s ever had playing hockey.

Those three that left, their team has 4 wins on the season and haven’t won since Nov.

And as I mentioned before, one of the moms sent out some feelers to my wife about her son coming back - my wife was honest that they wouldn’t be welcomed back by the org or families.

Another thing I was wondering about and apologies if it was mentioned somewhere else in this thread:

Did these kids tryout for a higher level and get denied? I know we’ve had a few high end players leave our organization for that reason.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I recall during our first spring hockey tryouts, we went to three teams in one weekend. Didn't return for one of them as it conflicted with the another. Somehow we didn't have any winter conflicts either. Back then they were only about $100-150 for a 2-3 skates. The teams were using them as a fundraiser too as there were limited spots open, but it was extra ice and self evaluation to see where everyone stacked up.

I've seen that too. "Hey - we need a few extra kids to fill out a try-out roster so lets charge them some money, even though we pretty much have our roster set".

Although - (and I mentioned this a little while ago) we signed up my kid for a spring hockey tryout. I was 100% sure that it was a cash grab since it was already January and a lot of other teams rosters were set. I justified it with "well, $25 for 90 minutes of icetime is pretty good". It was an existing HSL team looking to fill out a spring roster.

But to be fair to that team - they offered him a spot the next morning.

 

[timekeep]

I've seen that too. "Hey - we need a few extra kids to fill out a try-out roster so lets charge them some money, even though we pretty much have our roster set".

Although - (and I mentioned this a little while ago) we signed up my kid for a spring hockey tryout. I was 100% sure that it was a cash grab since it was already January and a lot of other teams rosters were set. I justified it with "well, $25 for 90 minutes of icetime is pretty good". It was an existing HSL team looking to fill out a spring roster.

But to be fair to that team - they offered him a spot the next morning.

I only did the multiple tryouts the one year and then stuck with a team. We weren't the best but we let the kids have some pool time at the hotel after. If you know what I mean.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I only did the multiple tryouts the one year and then stuck with a team. We weren't the best but we let the kids have some pool time at the hotel after. If you know what I mean.

I just posted something about this on the BOH forum. Yes, I know what you mean.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

With the 'dynamics' I'm referring to the rules of the zones, geography, etc. and you can't just take your kind anywhere you want. (But that may be changing in AB, not that close any longer). In winter hockey it falls under Hockey Canada and then the provinces, but there are school academies and independent leagues from Hockey Canada. In Spring/Summer hockey there is not a governing body that states the rules and there are more people moving around.

Ya basically it’s an org eat org thing around here - a lot of scumbag behavior as I will explain below.

So there’s zero chance an org won’t accept a kid that pulls out of a commitment.

It’s basically surrendering the commitment fee that keeps many hockey parents honest.

Like in Jigglyfly's situation - you could argue that what the parents did was permitted. If you were willing to eat the $1000 deposit then you're allowed to bail. Now if those parents are asking about bailing on their existing team mid-season I would say HELL NO, but I wouldn't rule them out entirely from trying out next year if it made sense for the team and you know what you're getting into.

It’s permitted but shady as hell and rarely happens.

No one I know has ever heard of multiple families getting together and colluding to commit to a team then ditching that org for a new one.

The bolded happened to my daughter’s org last season for their 2012 BY team.

The best AA team in the area, Team V I’ll call them, poached their best player mid-season - just absolute dirty, scumbag shit.

We also found out, through the mom
of the superstar kid on my daughter’s team, Team V tried to steal him away in November.

Another AA org also approached them about switching teams in Oct.

Thankfully this kid’s parent have good morals and he also didn’t want to leave.

Losing him would have been an absolute train wreck with their short roster.

Another thing I was wondering about and apologies if it was mentioned somewhere else in this thread:

Did these kids tryout for a higher level and get denied? I know we’ve had a few high end players leave our organization for that reason.

The kids that left went to a faux AAA team - this org takes their leftovers from their major AAA team and create a minor “AAA” team.

It’s an obvious money grab and the parents who left were chasing the extra A.

For reference, they were getting smacked so badly by AAA teams, they entered a low tier AA tournament and got smashed.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Youth contracts work differently here.

A kid is allowed to back out, but the parents surrender their commitment fee, which was $1000 in this case.

It’s a pretty good deterrent for many hockey parents to be shady, obviously.

However, all three kids have wealthy parents so that was chump change to them unfortunately.

As I said, karma is giving them a huge kick in the ass.

My daughter’s team is having a good season, most fun she’s ever had playing hockey.

Those three that left, their team has 4 wins on the season and haven’t won since Nov.

And as I mentioned before, one of the moms sent out some feelers to my wife about her son coming back - my wife was honest that they wouldn’t be welcomed back by the org or families.

Gotchya, so in that case using my previous idea of making them pay the full fee upfront won't be much of a deterrent if the $ doesnt matter.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Ya basically it’s an org eat org thing around here - a lot of scumbag behavior as I will explain below.

So there’s zero chance an org won’t accept a kid that pulls out of a commitment.

It’s basically surrendering the commitment fee that keeps many hockey parents honest.


It’s permitted but shady as hell and rarely happens.

No one I know has ever heard of multiple families getting together and colluding to commit to a team then ditching that org for a new one.

The bolded happened to my daughter’s org last season for their 2012 BY team.

The best AA team in the area, Team V I’ll call them, poached their best player mid-season - just absolute dirty, scumbag shit.

We also found out, through the mom
of the superstar kid on my daughter’s team, Team V tried to steal him away in November.

Another AA org also approached them about switching teams in Oct.

Thankfully this kid’s parent have good morals and he also didn’t want to leave.

Losing him would have been an absolute train wreck with their short roster.



The kids that left went to a faux AAA team - this org takes their leftovers from their major AAA team and create a minor “AAA” team.

It’s an obvious money grab and the parents who left were chasing the extra A.

For reference, they were getting smacked so badly by AAA teams, they entered a low tier AA tournament and got smashed.

The mid-season poaching is something the district should stop. I get them walking away from a commitment contract, but there should be some point of no return where they can't switch without a release from the prior club,

Here, the shenanigans start now. Our tryouts start 3/18 for tier 1 and girls, and 3/24 for tier 2 (12U and under) 13P and up start in April for next season and sometimes teams will try to sign you and offer a spot after the first night. Especially, if you are from another org and they think you are good. They do not want you leaving and possibly going somewhere else on night 2. They say you have to attend every tryout, but that is BS.

Over the past 2 weeks, I have seen orgs posting ads for tryout tune-up clinics and ID skates. By rule, it can't be free, but usually cheap (Saw one for $20 per session, payable in cash at the door). I think it can be free for current players in an organization, but not 100% sure on that.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Gotchya, so in that case using my previous idea of making them pay the full fee upfront won't be much of a deterrent if the $ doesnt matter.

Hockey is notoriously filled with spoiled rich kids at the higher levels, so it’s not much of a deterrent to them.

Kids around here breaking commitments is rare though.

The mid-season poaching is something the district should stop. I get them walking away from a commitment contract, but there should be some point of no return where they can't switch without a release from the prior club,

Here, the shenanigans start now. Our tryouts start 3/18 for tier 1 and girls, and 3/24 for tier 2 (12U and under) 13P and up start in April for next season and sometimes teams will try to sign you and offer a spot after the first night. Especially, if you are from another org and they think you are good. They do not want you leaving and possibly going somewhere else on night 2. They say you have to attend every tryout, but that is BS.

Over the past 2 weeks, I have seen orgs posting ads for tryout tune-up clinics and ID skates. By rule, it can't be free, but usually cheap (Saw one for $20 per session, payable in cash at the door). I think it can be free for current players in an organization, but not 100% sure on that.

They don’t have district lines here, it’s all independent org, with no districts controlling anything.

Ie the three kids who left my daughter’s team live near us, but the new team they went to is 40 minutes away.

That’s interesting about the girls org, and completely opposite from here.

The best Tier 2 team around here has an agreement to let girls out of their commitments if they make the Tier 1 team.

It’s BS the way the Tier 2 org has to bow to the Tier 1 team, but USA Hockey only allows one Tier 1 girls team around here, which I despise.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Hockey is notoriously filled with spoiled rich kids at the higher levels, so it’s not much of a deterrent to them.

Kids around here breaking commitments is rare though.



They don’t have district lines here, it’s all independent org, with no districts controlling anything.

Ie the three kids who left my daughter’s team live near us, but the new team they went to is 40 minutes away.

That’s interesting about the girls org, and completely opposite from here.

The best Tier 2 team around here has an agreement to let girls out of their commitments if they make the Tier 1 team.

It’s BS the way the Tier 2 org has to bow to the Tier 1 team, but USA Hockey only allows one Tier 1 girls team around here, which I despise.

I am talking about the governing body for the area. Here, our is AAHA. (atlantic amateur hockey association). Covers NJ, Eastern PA, DE.

That is why here the tier 1 teams have their tryouts first. Here, they are the same organizations, just the tier 1 teams play in a different league than their tier 2 teams. No idea on the rule if you sign with a tier 2 team and then a tier 1 team from a different organization wants you. I assume the player would need to be given a release from the tier 2 team.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I am talking about the governing body for the area. Here, our is AAHA. (atlantic amateur hockey association). Covers NJ, Eastern PA, DE.

That is why here the tier 1 teams have their tryouts first. Here, they are the same organizations, just the tier 1 teams play in a different league than their tier 2 teams. No idea on the rule if you sign with a tier 2 team and then a tier 1 team from a different organization wants you. I assume the player would need to be given a release from the tier 2 team.

Teams around here are under the Mid-Am US district, but they aren’t going to step in and do anything if kids are being poached unless an org takes it all the way up the chain to USA Hockey.

Even then, the player doesn’t have to be released, but the team fees must be paid in full (once the season starts parents are legally responsible for paying all fees in full)

That’s more of a league issue, but the team that poached the star player last season off the 2012 BY team was from a different league.

Same deal with the teams trying to poach the superstar kid from my daughter’s team - they play in different leagues, so nothing would have been done.

Basically the only repercussions is owing that full amount on team fees.

Ie the kid that Team V stole away from the 2012 BY team in my daughter’s org, his parents had to pay the entire $5500 in fees, even though he left after only two months or so.

 

[Yukon Joe]

So I gotta admit - for all the frustrations I can have with the Hockey Canada / Hockey Alberta for all their regulations - I do prefer it to having no rules whatsoever.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

So I gotta admit - for all the frustrations I can have with the Hockey Canada / Hockey Alberta for all their regulations - I do prefer it to having no rules whatsoever.

Even though teams don’t have to release players in this area, keep in mind this stuff is rare around here though, which is why I started discussing all of this silliness last spring.