Rumor: 2022-2022 Trade Rumors and Free Agency Part 14: Sakic goes back to bed

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Not just that but Devon Toews isn't going to be this level of hockey player forever. He's arguably about to exit his prime years, whereas Byram is very close to just entering his.

If Bo can stay healthy we're going to have two legitimate #1 defensemen in Makar and Byram for a very long time.

Yea, I don't trade Bo unless it's for a sure thing. Basically, I'm against trading Bo unless he's in a trade for a player that's better than Bo...which is highly, highly unlikely to happen.

 

[AvStock]

If a team offered EP40 or Barzal for Byram you take that and run never looking back. The extreme obsession over Byram in this board is weird af

 

[flyfysher]

If a team offered EP40 or Barzal for Byram you take that and run never looking back. The extreme obsession over Byram in this board is weird af

Hold your breath. Maybe it'll happen. Until then...

 

[Nihiliste]

If a team offered EP40 or Barzal for Byram you take that and run never looking back. The extreme obsession over Byram in this board is weird af

They wouldn't though

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Byram isn't getting traded, at least not anytime soon. So anyone thinking that can put a plug in it. And thank goodness for that. Certainly not before moving Girard. 90% of any Byram trade we lose. You don't trade a likely top-pairing D for a 2C, you just don't. That need can be addressed in a multitude of ways.

2C is more important than a #2D.


Especially a high end 2C

 

[Freaky Styley]

2C is more important than a #2D.


Especially a high end 2C

Respectively and whole-heartedly disagree. First of all, the only reason Byram will be considered a #2 D is because we have Makar. He will have #1 capabilities. So ya, if you want to trade him for the equivalent of a #1C then I might consider it, which is why there are very few players in the league I would trade Byram for. Considering MacKinnon is all the offense we need, this equivalent #1C would need to be an elite 2-way player, pretty much someone like Barkov. I can probably count on one hand the amount of forwards I would trade Byram for, and none of them are likely available. Plus, when factoring in the cap, it makes even less sense.

By your statement I take it you think that Kadri is more important than Toews? By all metrics that would be seen as false.
A #2D is a top line player. You don't trade a top line player for a 2nd line player. You just don't. (unless there are other significant adds). You trade a #3-4D for a 2C (i.e. Girard)

 

[Frenchy]

Hold your breath. Maybe it'll happen. Until then...

i... must ....breath... need ...oxygen

 

[Richard88]

Would Florida part with Lundell if they exit the playoffs and realise their LHD needs improving?

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Respectively and whole-heartedly disagree. First of all, the only reason Byram will be considered a #2 D is because we have Makar. He will have #1 capabilities. So ya, if you want to trade him for the equivalent of a #1C then I might consider it, which is why there are very few players in the league I would trade Byram for. Considering MacKinnon is all the offense we need, this equivalent #1C would need to be an elite 2-way player, pretty much someone like Barkov. I can probably count on one hand the amount of forwards I would trade Byram for, and none of them are likely available. Plus, when factoring in the cap, it makes even less sense.

By your statement I take it you think that Kadri is more important than Toews? By all metrics that would be seen as false.
A #2D is a top line player. You don't trade a top line player for a 2nd line player. You just don't. (unless there are other significant adds). You trade a #3-4D for a 2C (i.e. Girard)

Completely disagree. Byram doesn't have #1 upside.


And to the 2nd bolded, yes especially this year with the way Kadri played as the 2C. The most important position in hockey is Center. That is a fact that has been proven over and over again. You can win a cup with a mediocre defense, you cannot win a cup without great center depth.


Not having Kadri was a huge reason we lost in the 2nd round last year.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Would Florida part with Lundell if they exit the playoffs and realise their LHD needs improving?

That's what I am hoping for. Byram for Lundell would be a very fair swap.


Another idea I thought of was Girard for Lundell + Hornqvist. Horny is a cap dump for them and one they will likely want to get rid of this summer. Drives the price down a little on Lundell into Girard territory.

While Hornqvist is overpaid, I think he's still a decent bottom 6 player and could fit on our 3rd line quite nicely IMO.


Nuke - Mack - Mikko
Landy - Lundell - ????
Lehk - Newhook - Hornqvist
LOC - Meyers - NAK


The thing is we would have quite a bit of cap space to spend on a 2W at this point as well. Could go after Forsberg or Palat. Trade JTC for a draft pick at the draft(Should be able to get a 3rd IMO) and then use his 3.5M to sign Manson or a UFA RHD.


Toews - Makar
Byram - Manson
MacDermid - EJ
JMFJ

 

[Freaky Styley]

Completely disagree. Byram doesn't have #1 upside.


And to the 2nd bolded, yes. The most important position in hockey is Center. That is a fact that has been proven over and over again. You can win a cup with a mediocre defense, you cannot win a cup without great center depth.


Not having Kadri was a huge reason we lost in the 2nd round last year.

What makes you think Byram doesn't have #1 upside?

Actually, the most important position in hockey in defense. Defense wins championships. Go ask the Oilers how their 1-2 punch is doing. What team has proven you can win with mediocre defense?

I'd argue that our defense let us down last year, to the tune of Graves and Nemeth. If we win the cup this year it will be because of our depth at D, having Byram playing 3rd line minutes. When you can rely on every pairing to be reliable, that's a huge competitive advantage. That's our mistmatch. Right now our #3C is Compher. So this iteration of the Avalanche might even prove you wrong.

I'm not saying don't address the C issue, or don't try to acquire great center depth. Just don't do it at the cost of a likely top pairing D man. Those are much harder to acquire, and much more valuable than a #2C, which can be found at a relatively reasonable price via trade or free agency. i.e. Trocheck

And why even consider trading Byram when trading Girard makes 10000x more sense, and with an add or 2 can prove the type of player we need?

Would Florida part with Lundell if they exit the playoffs and realise their LHD needs improving?

God one can hope. Not sure G would be enough for them though. They would probably look to Chychrun, Sam Bennett might be a more realistic target.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

What makes you think Byram doesn't have #1 upside?

Actually, the most important position in hockey in defense. Defense wins championships. Go ask the Oilers how their 1-2 punch is doing. What team has proven you can win with mediocre defense?

I'd argue that our defense let us down last year, to the tune of Graves and Nemeth. If we win the cup this year it will be because of our depth at D, having Byram playing 3rd line minutes. When you can rely on every pairing to be reliable, that's a huge competitive advantage. That's our mistmatch. Right now our #3C is Compher. So this iteration of the Avalanche might even prove you wrong.

I'm not saying don't address the C issue, or don't try to acquire great center depth. Just don't do it at the cost of a likely top pairing D man. Those are much harder to acquire, and much more valuable than a #2C, which can be found at a relatively reasonable price via trade or free agency. i.e. Trocheck

And why even consider trading Byram when trading Girard makes 10000x more sense, and with an add or 2 can prove the type of player we need?

That is just factually not true.


Go through all the Stanley Cup winning teams of the last 20 years and you'll quickly notice not a single one of those teams that won a cup did so without a combination of a 1C and high end Center depth. Then do the same for Defense and you'll see teams that won it all without having a 1D or having just a mediocre Defense is far more prevalent.


Also you just said it yourself. Byram(Likely) carries more value then Girard which means we get a better player if we trade him and fill a far bigger need. We already have the best Dman in hockey on this team and another #1 caliber guy in Toews. Byram and Girard are redundant right now while we have a massive glaring weakness down the middle, the most important position. So yeah if you can trade Byram to get a 2C that will solve that problem for a number of years going forward, you make that trade.

Center is by far the most important position in hockey. I dont know what else I can possibly do to explain that to you. It's common knowledge.

 

[shadow1]

In both 2013 and 2015, Chicago had pretty suspect C depth. Both times they added an old veteran at the deadline to try to shore things up and it worked:

2013: Toews, Handzus*, Bolland, Kruger
2015: Toews, Richards, Vermette*, Kruger
*Deadline add

I think there are many ways to slice the pizza.

The Avs roster currently has 3 players (MacKinnon, Makar, Rantanen) who have a reasonably decent shot at the HHOF. As long as Kadri's replacement at the 2C position isn't a complete train wreck (see: 2016-2019 Colorado Avalanche rosters), the club is going to have a good shot at the cup for a while.

 

[Freaky Styley]

That is just factually not true.


Go through all the Stanley Cup winning teams of the last 20 years and you'll quickly notice not a single one of those teams that won a cup did so without a combination of a 1C and high end Center depth. Then do the same for Defense and you'll see teams that won it all without having a 1D or having just a mediocre Defense is far more prevalent.


Also you just said it yourself. Byram(Likely) carries more value then Girard which means we get a better player if we trade him and fill a far bigger need. We already have the best Dman in hockey on this team and another #1 caliber guy in Toews. Byram and Girard are redundant right now while we have a massive glaring weakness down the middle, the most important position. So yeah if you can trade Byram to get a 2C that will solve that problem for a number of years going forward, you make that trade.

Center is by far the most important position in hockey. I dont know what else I can possibly do to explain that to you. It's common knowledge.

It's not though, not when it comes Championships. #1D is. It's moot, because we already have a #1D and a #1C, and to my point, Cale is more impactful to winning games than Nate.

Pittsburgh and Carolina are the only 2 teams I can think of that one with less than stellar defenses. And the Blues just won recently with O'Reilly as their #1 C. My point is that with MacKinnon, we don't need someone as good as Barkov as our #2C, and the quality of player we do need can be had without trading one of our most important pieces to our success both this year and moving forward. Once Toews needs a raise or play starts to fall off, and all we have to replace him is Girard the issue would be crystal clear. Which is only like 2-3 years away.

All I have to say is thank god you aren't in charge of running things.

 

[Richard88]

That's what I am hoping for. Byram for Lundell would be a very fair swap.


Another idea I thought of was Girard for Lundell + Hornqvist. Horny is a cap dump for them and one they will likely want to get rid of this summer. Drives the price down a little on Lundell into Girard territory.

While Hornqvist is overpaid, I think he's still a decent bottom 6 player and could fit on our 3rd line quite nicely IMO.


Nuke - Mack - Mikko
Landy - Lundell - ????
Lehk - Newhook - Hornqvist
LOC - Meyers - NAK


The thing is we would have quite a bit of cap space to spend on a 2W at this point as well. Could go after Forsberg or Palat. Trade JTC for a draft pick at the draft(Should be able to get a 3rd IMO) and then use his 3.5M to sign Manson or a UFA RHD.


Toews - Makar
Byram - Manson
MacDermid - EJ
JMFJ

Florida would be silly to staple a capdump to Lundell. If a Girard+ package gets it done that would be nice though.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

It's not though, not when it comes Championships. #1D is. It's moot, because we already have a #1D and a #1C, and to my point, Cale is more impactful to winning games than Nate.

Pittsburgh and Carolina are the only 2 teams I can think of that one with less than stellar defenses. And the Blues just won recently with O'Reilly as their #1 C. My point is that with MacKinnon, we don't need someone as good as Barkov as our #2C, and the quality of player we do need can be had without trading one of our most important pieces to our success both this year and moving forward. Once Toews needs a raise or play starts to fall off, and all we have to replace him is Girard the issue would be crystal clear. Which is only like 2-3 years away.

All I have to say is thank god you aren't in charge of running things.

Well thank god you're not the GM either.


Imagine actually thinking Defense is more important than Center... Yikes

What is the most important position in hockey? 5 reasons why it is the centermen - Hockey Answered

What position has the greatest impact on the game of hockey? Hockey fans love to debate about all things hockey, and there has been lots of debate over what the most important position in hockey is. So, what is the most important position in hockey? The centermen is the most important position...

hockeyanswered.com

Literally every article and its the same thing, without even diving into the analytics of the positions and the value added from a Center versus any other position.

 

[ABasin]

Completely disagree. Byram doesn't have #1 upside.

How do you know? Dude's all of 20 years old, has an injury history, and has barely played a half season of NHL hockey up to this point.

Isn't "we don't know yet" a more reasonable position at this point?

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

How do you know? Dude's all of 20 years old, has an injury history, and hasn't yet played a full season of NHL hockey.

Isn't "we don't know yet" a more reasonable position at this point?

I mean, call it whatever you want. He's not going to be a #1D Doesn't have the skill set IMO.

 

[flyfysher]

It's not though, not when it comes Championships. #1D is. It's moot, because we already have a #1D and a #1C, and to my point, Cale is more impactful to winning games than Nate.

Pittsburgh and Carolina are the only 2 teams I can think of that one with less than stellar defenses. And the Blues just won recently with O'Reilly as their #1 C. My point is that with MacKinnon, we don't need someone as good as Barkov as our #2C, and the quality of player we do need can be had without trading one of our most important pieces to our success both this year and moving forward. Once Toews needs a raise or play starts to fall off, and all we have to replace him is Girard the issue would be crystal clear. Which is only like 2-3 years away.

All I have to say is thank god you aren't in charge of running things.

Seems to me the proof is in the pudding. Sakic kept EJ and Byram. Got a physical partner for the little guy on D and MacDermid as our bare knuckles guy. Took a pass on Eichel. That tells me Sakic sees the importance of having and keeping a strong D corps in the POs.

 

[Iceberg]

Seems to me the proof is in the pudding. Sakic kept EJ and Byram. Got a physical partner for the little guy on D and MacDermid as our bare knuckles guy. Took a pass on Eichel. That tells me Sakic sees the importance of having and keeping a strong D corps in the POs.

Sakic passed on Eichel? Really?

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Seems to me the proof is in the pudding. Sakic kept EJ and Byram. Got a physical partner for the little guy on D and MacDermid as our bare knuckles guy. Took a pass on Eichel. That tells me Sakic sees the importance of having and keeping a strong D corps in the POs.

He didn't take a pass on Eichel though. He tried to get him.


Defense can prop a team up, Centers are what win cups.


I know you guys are just a vocal minority right now but it's still surprising to see people who haven't caught onto this.

 

[flyfysher]

How do you know? Dude's all of 20 years old, has an injury history, and has barely played a half season of NHL hockey up to this point.

Isn't "we don't know yet" a more reasonable position at this point?

Having Nichushkin should be a reminder that some players aren’t fully developed by the time they’re 20. That raises an entirely different question. Do you think Nichushkin can continue to evolve skills wise? He’s arguably the Avs 4th most important F now and has markedly improved his game even since last season. Isn’t he like 27? That’s nuts that he’s still developing. I used to think he might re-up at less than $6M/AAV but if he has a super PO performance then perhaps not.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Would Florida part with Lundell if they exit the playoffs and realise their LHD needs improving?

Dibs. Love me some Lundell.

 

[flyfysher]

Sakic passed on Eichel? Really?

Yeah, really. As in Eichel is sitting at home watching the POs and Byram is waiting to see if it’s the Wild or Blues that he’ll be playing next in the POs. That tells you what the management’s priority was and is in terms of the price it was willing to pay.

 

[Iceberg]

Yeah, really. As in Eichel is sitting at home watching the POs and Byram is waiting to see if it’s the Wild or Blues that he’ll be playing next in the POs. That tells you what the management’s priority was and is in terms of the price it was willing to pay.

So, you know what Sakic was willing to pay and what the Sabres wanted to get?

Sure...