Rumor: 2022-2022 Trade Rumors and Free Agency Part 14: Sakic goes back to bed

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Honestly, I’m not sure I want Manson back.

I’m definitely not giving him $4M. If he wants to come back for a cheap deal I’d be down, but he’s not the kind of player I’d pay max market value for. Support defenceman can be had at the deadline.

Nope.

He's been ok here but he hasn't been great either.


And if the plan is to keep Girard/Byram for one more year, they dont need another #4 Guy. Especially not one likely to be making ~3.5M like Manson will be.


Just go get someone like De Haan, Pysyk, or Braun for the 3rd pairing. They're all capable of playing Top 4 minutes as well for short periods IMO, especially if it's next to an elite puck mover like Girard or Byram.

 

[Freaky Styley]

Nope.

He's been ok here but he hasn't been great either.


And if the plan is to keep Girard/Byram for one more year, they dont need another #4 Guy. Especially not one likely to be making ~3.5M like Manson will be.


Just go get someone like De Haan, Pysyk, or Braun for the 3rd pairing. They're all capable of playing Top 4 minutes as well for short periods IMO, especially if it's next to an elite puck mover like Girard or Byram.

Let's see how you feel after playoffs. Manson has just kept improving and is coming off his best game yet IMO. If we are playing Girard/Byram on the 2nd pair, who's on the bottom pair, MacDermid/Braun? This is of course assuming EJ is gone too. If EJ is still here, then I understand the hesitation with keeping Manson.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Let's see how you feel after playoffs. Manson has just kept improving and is coming off his best game yet IMO. If we are playing Girard/Byram on the 2nd pair, who's on the bottom pair, MacDermid/Braun? This is of course assuming EJ is gone too. If EJ is still here, then I understand the hesitation with keeping Manson.

Honestly I don't care what he does in the playoffs.

We already have a great Top 4 Defense with Toews/Makar/G/Byram. We absolutely should not be spending more cap space on a Top 4D. Completely unnecessary.

 

[Freaky Styley]

Honestly I don't care what he does in the playoffs.

We already have a great Top 4 Defense with Toews/Makar/G/Byram. We absolutely should not be spending more cap space on a Top 4D. Completely unnecessary.

except for the fact that teams with more than 4 'top-4' D are usually the most successful. Need some insurance plan when injuries come around. We are currently spending 6M on a bottom pair D and have still managed to ice the best team in the league

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

except for the fact that teams with more than 4 'top-4' D are usually the most successful. Need some insurance plan when injuries come around. We are currently spending 6M on a bottom pair D and have still managed to ice the best team in the league

Then go sign De Haan or Braun for half the cost it will take for Manson.


We aren't the best team in the league. That title goes to the Stanley Cup winners and we haven't won shit yet. And a big reason why is that $6M cap dump on Defense and the way it has handcuffed our ability to build depth the last two years.

 

[dahrougem2]

UFA's at the end of the year:

Kadri
Burakovsky
Nichushkin
Helm
Sturm
Cogliano
Manson
Murray
J. Johnson
Kuemper

RFA's:

Lehkonen
Aube-Kubel

Personally I'd like to keep Nuke, Sturm, Cogs, Manson, Kuemper and Lehks. Possibly JJ and/or NAK if they are under 1M.

It's hard to believe that more players haven't been re-upped yet. That's a ridiculously long list, Sakic will have a lot of work to do in the offseason.

I don't think it's as exhaustive a list as it seems.

I very much doubt Helm, Cogliano, and Murray are brought back. NAK seems like a long shot given he might want a pay raise and the Avs should not be the team to give him that raise. JMFJ has zero leverage, if he wants a contract it'll have to wait until August when Sakic finishes up his other business or he can play for a different team. Once you take those names out, the list becomes:

Kadri
Burakovsky
Nichushkin
Sturm
Manson
Kuemper
Lehkonen

 

[Reparlana]

Edit

 

[Bender]

Honestly, I’m not sure I want Manson back.

I’m definitely not giving him $4M. If he wants to come back for a cheap deal I’d be down, but he’s not the kind of player I’d pay max market value for. Support defenceman can be had at the deadline.

I agree that he hasn't proved his worth YET but I think that the more it goes, the better he's been. If the season was to end today, I would agree that he probably shouldn't be re-signed but he was brought here specifically for the playoffs.

If he comes back, it's likely going to be for a 3 year deal that is under $4m per year. If he prefers to cash out and sign with Seattle, he'll likely get more term and more $$$.

 

[Richard88]

I agree that he hasn't proved his worth YET but I think that the more it goes, the better he's been. If the season was to end today, I would agree that he probably shouldn't be re-signed but he was brought here specifically for the playoffs.

If he comes back, it's likely going to be for a 3 year deal that is under $4m per year. If he prefers to cash out and sign with Seattle, he'll likely get more term and more $$$.

$3.5m x 4 is probably the sweet spot for both sides. He could get more on the open market, but taking slightly less would mean that he'd get to stay with a top contender and also in the west so as to not have to move as far from California where he's put down roots. Ideally he'd sign for 3 years but Avs give up a year to get a lower AAV in their contending years.

 

[myperbixhurts]

Do we really want Giroux? The guy didn't wanna go to Avs even when Sakic made a better offer than Florida as was reported. Don't think I want him

 

[niwotsblessing]

Honestly I don't care what he does in the playoffs.

We already have a great Top 4 Defense with Toews/Makar/G/Byram. We absolutely should not be spending more cap space on a Top 4D. Completely unnecessary.

We also need to assess Girard after the playoffs.

 

[Pokecheque]

Do we really want Giroux? The guy didn't wanna go to Avs even when Sakic made a better offer than Florida as was reported. Don't think I want him

It's a non-starter. He wants to stay out east and that's fine. I think his next contract (probably his last) barely makes it under the 35+ rule since he won't turn 35 until next January, but that's still going to be a rather prohibitive deal IMO.

 

[AslanRH]

UFA's at the end of the year:

Kadri
Burakovsky
Nichushkin
Helm
Sturm
Cogliano
Manson
Murray
J. Johnson
Kuemper

RFA's:

Lehkonen
Aube-Kubel

Personally I'd like to keep Nuke, Sturm, Cogs, Manson, Kuemper and Lehks. Possibly JJ and/or NAK if they are under 1M.

It's hard to believe that more players haven't been re-upped yet. That's a ridiculously long list, Sakic will have a lot of work to do in the offseason.

Honestly I think besides Lehkonen and Nichushkin, everyone on that list will be evaluated for the future on how the Avs do in the playoffs this season.

Now if Sakic can get the likes of the Kuemper, Manson and Sturm on a discount/low term deal early maybe they get into the mix.

I could see a Manson re-signing become a Girard trade to fill other holes, especially if he repeats last year's Vegas performance, but if it comes at a discount both could be kept initially.

 

[AvStock]

Giroux can kiss our collective middle fingers and get outed in round 1 like they always do

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Naw, I want the Panthers in the SCFs. We'll beat them in three. Jokes aside, the guys should be shitting on his decision making every opportunity they get and it would be hilarious if they were mic'd up for it.

 

[Foppa2118]

Honestly, I’m not sure I want Manson back.

I’m definitely not giving him $4M. If he wants to come back for a cheap deal I’d be down, but he’s not the kind of player I’d pay max market value for. Support defenceman can be had at the deadline.

Yeah but you saw what it cost to acquire a defenseman like him at the deadline. Can't do that every year. They don't really have the assets to at this point anyway.

Manson has been much better the last few games. You can see he's playing at a much faster pace too. It's an adjustment. Even as a defenseman, if you play on the Avs, you have to be ready to sprint on the ice just to make the necessary plays the system calls for.

He's probably had to do a lot of off ice work to up his conditioning levels too. Before he looked a little gassed at time and wasn't skating quick enough to even finish his hits really. Now that he's skating much better, he's also playing a lot more physical. Which is exactly why they brought him in.

Even if they don't move on from EJ I think there's a place on the team for Manson, but especially if they do move on from EJ. Every good team needs big strong physical defenseman like Manson and EJ. And as we can see, the team is better if you have 2 or 3.

 

[Pokecheque]

I really haven't had much issue with Manson apart from a couple games. He has his limits for sure, and playing against faster teams is extremely difficult for him, but the minute you put him up against a tougher, physical team, his value comes out in spades.

Also, I think he's fit in quite nicely. He likes to play aggressive and jumps into the play regularly, but has gotten a lot better at picking his spots. Not sure what the future holds but I'm not regretting that trade at all. He's exactly what the Avs were looking for going into the playoffs.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Yeah but you saw what it cost to acquire a defenseman like him at the deadline. Can't do that every year. They don't really have the assets to at this point anyway.

Manson has been much better the last few games. You can see he's playing at a much faster pace too. It's an adjustment. Even as a defenseman, if you play on the Avs, you have to be ready to sprint on the ice just to make the necessary plays the system calls for.

He's probably had to do a lot of off ice work to up his conditioning levels too. Before he looked a little gassed at time and wasn't skating quick enough to even finish his hits really. Now that he's skating much better, he's also playing a lot more physical. Which is exactly why they brought him in.

Even if they don't move on from EJ I think there's a place on the team for Manson, but especially if they do move on from EJ. Every good team needs big strong physical defenseman like Manson and EJ. And as we can see, the team is better if you have 2 or 3.

Agree that Manson’s definitely getting better. I thought he looked good against Washington.

I think they felt they had to make the trade for him because of the uncertainty around Byram’s health situation.

Realistically if they’re going into next season with Makar, Toews, Girard, and Byram they shouldn’t be pressured to cave for Manson. If he wants to come back for cheap then great, but it’s not like he has a lot of leverage on them.

They’ll certainly need to get a free agent defenceman in the off-season (especially when EJ is inevitably moved), but it doesn’t necessarily have to be anyone high-end.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

It's funny seeing people unhappy with Manson after the wave happy to have him. I still would have preferred Helleson or the 2nd, let alone both, back. Helleson being better than Manson wouldn't surprise me.

Not that it's a terribly big loss, but this is why deadline rentals aren't always worth going all in for.

Of course there's another story where we lose EJ to injury and are grateful to have Manson.

 

[Foppa2118]

Agree that Manson’s definitely getting better. I thought he looked good against Washington.

I think they felt they had to make the trade for him because of the uncertainty around Byram’s health situation.

Realistically if they’re going into next season with Makar, Toews, Girard, and Byram they shouldn’t be pressured to cave for Manson. If he wants to come back for cheap then great, but it’s not like he has a lot of leverage on them.

They’ll certainly need to get a free agent defenceman in the off-season (especially when EJ is inevitably moved), but it doesn’t necessarily have to be anyone high-end.

I think it mostly depends on what they do with G. If they end up moving G to fill a need at 2C, then there could be a place for both Manson and EJ long term. Or someone similar to EJ if he decides to finish his career in Anaheim or something.

Even if they replace Manson and EJ with other players, I think this is the D core they're planning on building towards in a year or two.

Byram - Makar
Toews - Manson
Behrens - EJ

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

It's funny seeing people unhappy with Manson after the wave happy to have him. I still would have preferred Helleson or the 2nd, let alone both, back. Helleson being better than Manson wouldn't surprise me.

Not that it's a terribly big loss, but this is why deadline rentals aren't always worth going all in for.

Of course there's another story where we lose EJ to injury and are grateful to have Manson.

I'm fine with the move this year, Manson helps us right now.


I just dont want the Avs to potentially saddle themselves with another EJ 2.0 contract, paying a guy already into his 30s who has already started slowing down, and paying him like 4M or some silly number for 4 more years. Hopefully the Avs learned from the mistakes of the EJ contract and dont do it again with Manson.

Now, if Manson really loves it here and truly enjoys playing on a winning team, and we can get him to sign for something like 2x2.5M or even 2x3M, then its not as bad. But I think some team is going to offer him 4, maybe even 5 years in free agency and likely in the 4M neighborhood and that's just a bad contract waiting to happen.


It doesn't sound like a lot, but paying your #5Dman $4M, versus $2M is significant. That could be the difference in being able to afford Toews on an extension in a couple of years time, or being able to afford Nuke's new contract this summer, sort of thing.

 

[EdAVSfan]

It's funny seeing people unhappy with Manson after the wave happy to have him. I still would have preferred Helleson or the 2nd, let alone both, back. Helleson being better than Manson wouldn't surprise me.

Not that it's a terribly big loss, but this is why deadline rentals aren't always worth going all in for.

Of course there's another story where we lose EJ to injury and are grateful to have Manson.

Always a possibility of a trade like this not going well.

But your assessment seems to look at it purely from a value standpoint. This was a win now move.

You still the trade back if we win a cup?

As a side… (Not directed at you) I really have no idea why people are evaluating Manson based on his regular season play. He wasn’t brought in for the regular season. He was brought it for the playoffs. He should be evaluated as such. IDGAF if he’s Norris-level in the regular season. He needs to bring it in the playoffs. That’s where he needs to be evaluated.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

Marc-Andre Fleury plans on returning for at least one more season

Marc-Andre Fleury still has more left in him.

sports.yahoo.com

This maybe helps with Kuemper on the FA market

 

[myperbixhurts]

It's a non-starter. He wants to stay out east and that's fine. I think his next contract (probably his last) barely makes it under the 35+ rule since he won't turn 35 until next January, but that's still going to be a rather prohibitive deal IMO.

Yeah Giroux can f*** right off!

 

[dahrougem2]

It's funny seeing people unhappy with Manson after the wave happy to have him. I still would have preferred Helleson or the 2nd, let alone both, back. Helleson being better than Manson wouldn't surprise me.

Not that it's a terribly big loss, but this is why deadline rentals aren't always worth going all in for.

Of course there's another story where we lose EJ to injury and are grateful to have Manson.

You'd rather two magic beans over a proven top-4 defensemen a year we're trying to win the Stanley Cup?