Rumor: 2022-2022 Trade Rumors and Free Agency Part 14: Sakic goes back to bed

[Pokecheque]

G would be fine as a top pairing guy on a good team. If he were paired with a legit #1 defender there'd be little to no issue for him. Ideally you want him as a #3 but he could play higher.

It's a luxury that the Avs have two better blueliners ahead of him, and possibly three next season if by some miracle the Hockey Gods quit f***in' with you-know-who.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Fair value, based on the contracts that were given out last summer to other Dmen, would probably be in the neighborhood of 8-9M.

Because again, statistically(What matters) he is right on par with the likes of Darnell Nurse and Seth Jones. In saying that, it was also largely agreed upon in the community(especially the stats community) that both Nurse and Jones were pretty overpaid with those deals, and they should be more in the 7s.

So, I would say based on what other guys have gotten, 8.5M is completely reasonable. Based on what the numbers say though, ~7M would actually be fair.


Either which way, he's well underpaid at $5M and a contract that takes him through his 24-28 year old seasons remaining. Compared to these other guys who just signed 7-8 year deals that dont even start until he's 28 for Seth Jones and Darnell Nurse.

8.5M for Girard is just ridiculous

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

8.5M for Girard is just ridiculous

Nope. It simply is not.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Nope. It simply is not.

Girard will be the Avs #4 Dman next season, if he even will be here. Paying him like a star player makes no sense on any level.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Girard will be the Avs #4 Dman next season, if he even will be here. Paying him like a star player makes no sense on any level.

Where he would be playing on the Avs is completely irrelevant in the hypothetical scenario that he wasn't already signed for 5 more years.


The question was asked of how much Girard is worth. The answer is ~8.5M based on recent signings by Dmen.


It really is as simple as that.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Where he would be playing on the Avs is completely irrelevant in the hypothetical scenario that he wasn't already signed for 5 more years.


The question was asked of how much Girard is worth. The answer is ~8.5M based on recent signings by Dmen.


It really is as simple as that.

8.5M is star player money. Girard is a 2nd pairing Dman who still has to prove he can be equally effective in the playoffs than during the regular season. I have a hard time believing almost anyone would find that price tag reasonable.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

8.5M is star player money. Girard is a 2nd pairing Dman who still has to prove he can be equally effective in the playoffs than during the regular season. I have a hard time believing almost anyone would find that price tag reasonable.

Once again, that's just not true. Girard would be a Top pairing Dman on a number of teams in the league. Just because he's not here(And his usage actually indicates that he still is even here, he plays more 5 on 5 minutes then most Dmen in the league) doesn't mean he wouldn't be elsewhere. Evgeni Malkin was a 2C in Pittsburgh his entire career, but a 2C that did not make him.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Once again, that's just not true. Girard would be a Top pairing Dman on a number of teams in the league. Just because he's not here(And his usage actually indicates that he still is even here, he plays more 5 on 5 minutes then most Dmen in the league) doesn't mean he wouldn't be elsewhere. Evgeni Malkin was a 2C in Pittsburgh his entire career, but a 2C that did not make him.

Girard has not been anywhere close to a top pairing Dman this season. Last season was the only year he played at that level and even that regular season was followed by a questionable playoff showing.

Make a poll if you want, its not going to end well.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Girard has not been anywhere close to a top pairing Dman this season. Last season was the only year he played at that level and even that regular season was followed by a questionable playoff showing.

Make a poll if you want, its not going to end well.

the opinions of the HF Mass on here are hardly credible.


Either you dont care about statistics or you simply dont understand them. I dont know what else to tell you. He was a Top pairing Dman for each of the last 2 years with last year playing like a #1D.


He hasn't been as good this year, but its pretty obvious he was playing through an injury this year, and his main Defensive partner this year has been Jack Johnson which will drag down any Dman in the league. It certainly doesn't completely discredit his last 2+ years of work where he was one of the Top 30Dmen in the league.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

the opinions of the HF Mass on here are hardly credible.


Either you dont care about statistics or you simply dont understand them. I dont know what else to tell you. He was a Top pairing Dman for each of the last 2 years with last year playing like a #1D.


He hasn't been as good this year, but its pretty obvious he was playing through an injury this year, and his main Defensive partner this year has been Jack Johnson which will drag down any Dman in the league. It certainly doesn't completely discredit his last 2+ years of work where he was one of the Top 30Dmen in the league.

Make a poll of HF Avs then. I would be absolutely shocked if the people who watch nearly every single Avs game think Sammy G is a legit #1D worth 8M+

 

[Chiarelli]

I think open market girard could get 7-8 million easy on a 5 or 6 year deal

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Make a poll of HF Avs then. I would be absolutely shocked if the people who watch nearly every single Avs game think Sammy G is a legit #1D worth 8M+

Like I said, I literally dont care what you or any of the HF Mass believes.


Its evident few on this board value statistical evidence the way it should be valued. Hockey is a few years behind Baseball in that regard.


If you want to chose to ignore stats in favor of your biased opinion, completely fine by me.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Like I said, I literally dont care what you or any of the HF Mass believes.


Its evident few on this board value statistical evidence the way it should be valued. Hockey is a few years behind Baseball in that regard.


If you want to chose to ignore stats in favor of your biased opnion, completely fine by me.

What’s Toews worth then? 11M+

He is significantly better than Girard

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

What’s Toews worth then? 11M+

He is significantly better than Girard

If he were to magically become a UFA today, with the seasons he has had lately, yes he would be deserving of 11+.

 

[Balthazar]

The same person who thought we should have re-upped Barrie at 8M X 7 thinks Girard is worth 8.5M/year.

 

[shadow1]

Make a poll of HF Avs then. I would be absolutely shocked if the people who watch nearly every single Avs game think Sammy G is a legit #1D worth 8M+

Girard definitely isn't a #1 but I could see $8-$8.5M on the open market when guys like Darnell Nurse get $9.25. Realistically he'd probably get the Morgan Reilly contract ($7.5M/yr).

Last year a lot of people were arguing Girard was better than Seth Jones. I don't know if they're still saying that, but the conversations were definitely happening and Jones got $9.5M/year. So I don't think a contract beginning with an 8 is a huge stretch.

 

[Balthazar]

Girard definitely isn't a #1 but I could see $8-$8.5M on the open market when guys like Darnell Nurse get $9.25.

Guys like Nurse and Jones are getting this kind of money because GM's wrongfully think they can be their poor man's Hedman (size, offense and good defense).

Girard wouldn't sniff that kind of money on the open market.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Girard definitely isn't a #1 but I could see $8-$8.5M on the open market when guys like Darnell Nurse get $9.25. Realistically he'd probably get the Morgan Reilly contract ($7.5M/yr).

Last year a lot of people were arguing Girard was better than Seth Jones. I don't know if they're still saying that, but the conversations were definitely happening and Jones got $9.5M/year. So I don't think a contract beginning with an 8 is a huge stretch.

Yep exactly.

When guys like Jones and Nurse are making over 9M, a 23 year old UFA Girard would get ~8M

 

[Foppa2118]

Girard definitely isn't a #1 but I could see $8-$8.5M on the open market when guys like Darnell Nurse get $9.25. Realistically he'd probably get the Morgan Reilly contract ($7.5M/yr).

Last year a lot of people were arguing Girard was better than Seth Jones. I don't know if they're still saying that, but the conversations were definitely happening and Jones got $9.5M/year. So I don't think a contract beginning with an 8 is a huge stretch.

Yes but everyone pretty much agrees Nurse got a huge overpayment at $9.25M, so he's not a good example of why Girard is an $8.5M defenseman. He's just an example of Edmonton giving him an overpayment.

G is a great puck moving defenseman, but he's not that great defensively in a lot of situations, and his highs in goals and points are 5 and 34.

Morgan Reilly has 72 and 65 points seasons with a 20 goal year. Seth Jones has seasons of 57 and 49 points with much better defense. Even Nurse has had multiple better offensive seasons with 41, 36, and 35 points, while playing better defense.

There may be teams that would give G $8.5M on the open market, but that's just because UFA's get huge deals, and often overpayments. It would be hard to build a Cup contending blueline with G making $8.5M. That's only $500k less than what Cale signed for.

 

[Alienblood]

Should hang onto Girard until you get Toews reupped and confident Behrens is ready.

Don't think Toews will be reupped if Byram stays healthy.

 

[shadow1]

Yes but everyone pretty much agrees Nurse got a huge overpayment at $9.25M, so he's not a good example of why Girard is an $8.5M defenseman. He's just an example of Edmonton giving him an overpayment.

G is a great puck moving defenseman, but he's not that great defensively in a lot of situations, and his highs in goals and points are 5 and 34.

Morgan Reilly has 72 and 65 points seasons with a 20 goal year. Seth Jones has seasons of 57 and 49 points with much better defense. Even Nurse has had multiple better offensive seasons with 41, 36, and 35 points, while playing better defense.

There may be teams that would give G $8.5M on the open market, but that's just because UFA's get huge deals, and often overpayments. It would be hard to build a Cup contending blueline with G making $8.5M. That's only $500k less than what Cale signed for.

I think that's the point @Pierce Hawthorne was trying to make. I pretty much agree - if Girard hit UFA today, some desperate team would look at what Girard did in 2021 and drive the price way up.

I definitely wouldn't want Girard anywhere near the Avs if his contract was $8M though. Last year Girard's performance was insane (50 point pace, huge minutes), but this year has been a different story. Split the difference and you probably have a guy who will return $6.5-$7M in value every year, while making $5M.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Don't think Toews will be reupped if Byram stays healthy.

I don't think he's reupped regardless. Affording him will be very difficult.

 

[Foppa2118]

I think that's the point @Pierce Hawthorne was trying to make. I pretty much agree - if Girard hit UFA today, some desperate team would look at what Girard did in 2021 and drive the price way up.

I definitely wouldn't want Girard anywhere near the Avs if his contract was $8M though. Last year Girard's performance was insane (50 point pace, huge minutes), but this year has been a different story. Split the difference and you probably have a guy who will return $6.5-$7M in value every year, while making $5M.

I think the point being made though is that Girard is a steal at $5M and his true worth is $8.5M. The point about Nurse is that he's not worth $9.25M.

If G got $8.5M instead of $5M on his last deal, I think it would definitely be an overpayment as well.

UFA prices are usually overpayments not representations of a players true worth.

 

[Balthazar]

wrong forum

 

[Balthazar]

Lehks may get 20 goals (he has 17 now). That should get him damn close to 4M AAV.