Prospect Info: [2022 - 1st OA] Juraj Slafkovsky (LW) Part 2

[DAChampion]

We should be patient for once, leave Barron, Ghule and Slafkovsky in the AHL for the whole season and go for the Calder.

Yes !

 

[Lshap]

The Habs haven't developed or drafted a single PPG player in a very long time (decades). Until they prove they can do it, I don't think it's wise to risk our 1OA pick in their hands. You can't really teach vision or hockey IQ, and the Habs are exceptionally bad at developing offensive players.

The Habs' development and scouting were awful for a decade. I get the distrust. But most of our prospects become NHL-ready in Laval. If we can't trust them with Slafkovsky, he and our prospect pool are screwed.

 

[WinterLion]

I don’t think they’ll send him back to Liiga:

Hopefully he is good enough to step into the NHL... and never look back!

 

[SlafySZN]

If you think Armia had consistency issues in Liiga, lemme tell you about someone else…

Did you finally watch some of his games?

 

[WeThreeKings]

Did you finally watch some of his games?

lmao as if.

 

[Xirik]

Is Jack Hughes a recent enough example for you? Or Andrei Svechnikov?

Jack Hughes is the Anti example. from what ive seen, Most Devils fans agree that Hughes should have probably gone the NCAA route as he wouldn't have had been able to go to the AHL. Hughes in his first season with the Devils learned a hard lesson that he couldn't play as "fancy" as he used to. He also was a shrimp and could have used some conditioning/bulking up, Something that the NCAA does best.

 

[Habs10Habs]

The Habs haven't developed or drafted a single PPG player in a very long time (decades). Until they prove they can do it, I don't think it's wise to risk our 1OA pick in their hands. You can't really teach vision or hockey IQ, and the Habs are exceptionally bad at developing offensive players. Risk another, lesser player but not the 1OA who already has question marks around his ability to produce in league play.

That's my position -- hope it makes sense even if you disagree.

If he shows he can game in Liiga this year, then he can come over the following year with a ton of confidence and get a middle-6 NHL role.

Everything you've said here is true. At the same time, you're making judgments based on our previous management. This new management team has already shown a much stronger willingness to provide structure for our younger players.

If things didn't change and we were still led by Bergevin and his crew. I'd be 100% behind what you're saying. With each of the changes, and the direction the team seems to be following. I'm much more confident that our young players will get what they need. Whether it be in Laval, or with the Habs.

 

[DAChampion]

The reason that most 1st overalls start in the NHL is that most of them are too good for the CHL. Many of them would go to the AHL if they could. We've also seen many high quality 2nd and 3rd overalls not start in the NHL.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

If he is a big liability defensively and is not improving, then yes he has to go down, and hopefully indeed play 20 minutes a night, to learn to cut down the mistakes so he can come back up and be trusted.

But if the tricks that worked for him in Junior and European weaker pro leagues are not good enough to produce in the NHL, sending him down to succeed with those tricks against AHL players DOES NOT FIX ANYTHING!!

He has to play against the best to get better. That is the case everywhere. Most of the CHL top draft picks played in the CHL at 16. Not all starred right away. Not all began in the top 6 right away. But very, very few with talent were purposely sent down to Junior AAA to "develop their offence".

Now, if the Habs were competing for a cup and had 6 Lehkonens in their bottom 6 and thouht they could not afford any rookie mistakes, then I get keeping some bgorderline players down, like Detroit did when they were a contender every year.

But this is not the case here, nor is it normally the case for teams who drafted 1OA, so let's not use Detroit as the slam dunk example. Let's look to see how all the teams who supposedly "tanked to draft high" developed those high talents, and it was almost never in the AHL.

Forget Crosby, Ovechkin and McDavid, no one suggests they should have started n the AHL. But neither did Jordan Staal, Steven Stamkos, Victor Hedman, Taylor Hall, RNH, Tyler Seguin, Nathan Mackinnon, John Tavares, Aaron Ekblad, Rasmus Dahlin, Andrei Svechnikov, Jack Hughes, Nico Hischier.

There is a clear reason. It is that you do not develop game-breaking offence in the AHL.

100% agree coach. This idea that everyone must play there or their development is ruined is mostly nonsense. I understand why Habs fans feel that way though. We’ve had 3 of the worst coaches conceivable to be in charge of our youth. Therrien, Julien and Ducharme, I thought DD would be that guy for awhile, but when Julien was fired it was easy to see that DD was lost on all fronts, not just development.

 

[WeThreeKings]

The reason that most 1st overalls start in the NHL is that most of them are too good for the CHL. Many of them would go to the AHL if they could. We've also seen many high quality 2nd and 3rd overalls not start in the NHL.

The truth is that the Habs are going to choose the development path for Slafkovsky based on his performance in training camp & pre-season.

The advantage of him being here vs. Liiga is that, on top of the NA rinks, is that they will have complete control over his usage, his deployment, his developmental focus, what he does in practice, etc.

It's not unreasonable to want your most valuable asset in your hands vs a professional team in Finland who's focus is on winning only.

 

[DAChampion]

The truth is that the Habs are going to choose the development path for Slafkovsky based on his performance in training camp & pre-season.

The advantage of him being here vs. Liiga is that, on top of the NA rinks, is that they will have complete control over his usage, his deployment, his developmental focus, what he does in practice, etc.

It's not unreasonable to want your most valuable asset in your hands vs a professional team in Finland who's focus is on winning only.

I agree with most of that, except:

1) They should not overrate the importance of training camp and pre season.

2) A coach in Finland might simply be concerned with playing the veterans to keep the room, Ducharme style.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I agree with most of that, except:

1) They should not overrate the importance of training camp and pre season.

2) A coach in Finland might simply be concerned with playing the veterans to keep the room, Ducharme style.

It's the baseline they have and at least they can move Slaf between NHL, AHL and ECHL if they need to. But if a player earns their way during training camp, then you give them that opportunity.. exactly what happened with Rantanen.

 

[WinterLion]

The truth is that the Habs are going to choose the development path for Slafkovsky based on his performance in training camp & pre-season.

The advantage of him being here vs. Liiga is that, on top of the NA rinks, is that they will have complete control over his usage, his deployment, his developmental focus, what he does in practice, etc.

It's not unreasonable to want your most valuable asset in your hands vs a professional team in Finland who's focus is on winning only.

Agreed, the control part is a big plus. My concern with the AHL is that the skill level of the players is pretty low overall. The AHL is great for players who need to get stronger and learn the pro game and how to compete against men. The other problem with the AHL is that every team has a few guy goon types. Overall I would prefer having Slaf playing with highly skilled players... but I think he will... in the NHL!

 

[WeThreeKings]

Agreed, the control part is a big plus. My concern with the AHL is that the skill level of the players is pretty low overall. The AHL is great for players who need to get stronger and learn the pro game and how to compete against men. The other problem with the AHL is that every team has a few guy goon types. Overall I would prefer having Slaf playing with highly skilled players... but I think he will... in the NHL!

I don't see the skill level any worse than the Liiga, in fact it's probably better.. the only issue is the goon piece but that can happen at the NHL level, too.

I don't think he will see the NHL level right away just because of the amount of bodies we have right now, which might be the best thing for him.. but all in all, I'm not too worried until the new regime gives me a reason to be worried.

The way they've handled every development situation so far since they've arrived has been pretty solid. Save Houle's usage of Norlinder when he came back.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Jack Hughes is the Anti example. from what ive seen, Most Devils fans agree that Hughes should have probably gone the NCAA route as he wouldn't have had been able to go to the AHL. Hughes in his first season with the Devils learned a hard lesson that he couldn't play as "fancy" as he used to. He also was a shrimp and could have used some conditioning/bulking up, Something that the NCAA does best.

Those Devils fans saying that Jack's first year in the NHL was wasted are contradicting themselves when the stated reason was that he realized he was playing too fancy.

He might indeed have been playing too fancy, and that is why he needed to be in the NHL to learn that lesson.

Postponing his entry just would have postponed the lesson, and possibly ensured one year MORE of bad habits to break.

 

[Tyson]

Agreed, the control part is a big plus. My concern with the AHL is that the skill level of the players is pretty low overall. The AHL is great for players who need to get stronger and learn the pro game and how to compete against men. The other problem with the AHL is that every team has a few guy goon types. Overall I would prefer having Slaf playing with highly skilled players... but I think he will... in the NHL!

I anticipate he is big enough, fast enough, skilled enough and strong enough to play in the NHL this season. He could get the odd few games in Laval which I would have no issues with.

 

[ReHabs]

It's the baseline they have and at least they can move Slaf between NHL, AHL and ECHL if they need to. But if a player earns their way during training camp, then you give them that opportunity.. exactly what happened with Rantanen.

Worked well with Kotkaniemi! Lapointe and Bouillon, who are still employed by the club, had full control over his development. What we want is more control over a project's development, since we have such a good track record of it.

Everything you've said here is true. At the same time, you're making judgments based on our previous management. This new management team has already shown a much stronger willingness to provide structure for our younger players.

If things didn't change and we were still led by Bergevin and his crew. I'd be 100% behind what you're saying. With each of the changes, and the direction the team seems to be following. I'm much more confident that our young players will get what they need. Whether it be in Laval, or with the Habs.

Once something changes, I will believe it has changed. Until it happens, I won't change my tune.

Wanna know why?

We heard the exact same thing when Gainey/Gauthier became Bergevin.

The new GM's cohort inherited a top pick too. They rushed him too. Shall we get into Galchenyuk's development (under full control of the team)? Did he progress much between his first season and his later season?

Now I understand that sending Slaf back to Liiga means relinquishing control over his deployment and (indirectly) his development. But I also trust literally any other hockey organization with fostering an offensive player's vision and hockey IQ but not the Habs. I think TPS or any other team would be happy to have Slaf and will use him to his maximal ability. With the Habs we will see him yo-yo'd and playing for the worst team in the NHL, we will get him to do goofy McDonald's promos, we will lean on his gregarious personality and forget that he needs to focus on his game and to learn how to friggin produce some god damn points when he plays in the league. MSL can only do so much. Slaf has to be in a position where he has to solve problems and challenges -- he couldn't solve Liiga last year (obviously, just look at his awful league stats) there is no shame in going back to do his best.

Rant over. We won't convince each other and I'm not trying to convert anyone to my cause. I really have zero faith in the Habs organization's ability to develop offensive players, which is pretty much the main reason why I rooted against drafting Slafkovsky. If he had burned through Liiga I would be a lot less hesitant but he is clearly a player who needs to develop his vision and ability to use his tools, trends going back several GM regimes says the Habs will not help him and might hurt him.

 

[DAChampion]

Once something changes, I will believe it has changed. Until it happens, I won't change my tune.

Wanna know why?

We heard the exact same thing when Gainey/Gauthier became Bergevin.

IMO, we should give a null judgment to new figures. They should get a chance.

But separately, we now have several moves from Hughes, as we did with Bergevin. Bergevin began his tenure by hiring his unqualified friends, obsessed over Shane Doan and Brandon Prust, and picked a fight with Subban in order to look macho. Hughes began his tenure by hiring both his friends and qualified others (e.g. Boucher), and making strategic moves to accumulating assets such as selling Lehkonen, Chiarot, acquiring Monahan, etc.

Both of them made a reasonable choice with their high draft pick, that probably half the scouts in the league would have made. However, Hughes also flipped Romanov for Dach, a high risk , high reward move that is unlike what we saw during the Bergevin tenure.

So far, they're not similar.

 

[Gustave]

Only to get comfortable with the NA size rink I would put him a minimum of 40 games in the AHL. It’s a different game and it will be a strain on his playing style. He will obviously be a force on a small size rink but I would be patient and let him become a NA player if you will. If anything, the Rantanen development steps should be a blue print for our very own cyborg.

 

[BlackEye from Xhekaj]

@ExpatHabs I can't wait until Slaf produces and shoves your smug ridiculous comments back your way! "Look at this "project's Liiga stats.. blah blah never seen him play." "Kotka-chenyuk this and that.."

Watch the kid, learn his game, understand how he's different and see his strengths..... Then speak!

 

[417]

Hold up just a minute...just read something.

Is it true that Slafkovsky only had 10pts in 31 Liiga games?

 

[Habs10Habs]

Once something changes, I will believe it has changed. Until it happens, I won't change my tune.

Wanna know why?

We heard the exact same thing when Gainey/Gauthier became Bergevin.

The new GM's cohort inherited a top pick too. They rushed him too. Shall we get into Galchenyuk's development (under full control of the team)? Did he progress much between his first season and his later season?

Now I understand that sending Slaf back to Liiga means relinquishing control over his deployment and (indirectly) his development. But I also trust literally any other hockey organization with fostering an offensive player's vision and hockey IQ but not the Habs. I think TPS or any other team would be happy to have Slaf and will use him to his maximal ability. With the Habs we will see him yo-yo'd and playing for the worst team in the NHL, we will get him to do goofy McDonald's promos, we will lean on his gregarious personality and forget that he needs to focus on his game and to learn how to friggin produce some god damn points when he plays in the league. MSL can only do so much. Slaf has to be in a position where he has to solve problems and challenges -- he couldn't solve Liiga last year (obviously, just look at his awful league stats) there is no shame in going back to do his best.

Rant over. We won't convince each other and I'm not trying to convert anyone to my cause. I really have zero faith in the Habs organization's ability to develop offensive players, which is pretty much the main reason why I rooted against drafting Slafkovsky. If he had burned through Liiga I would be a lot less hesitant but he is clearly a player who needs to develop his vision and ability to use his tools, trends going back several GM regimes says the Habs will not help him and might hurt him.

That's fair, I can see that the last few administrations have scarred you. I can definitely understand that. But take a look at the additions that the team has made.

1. MSL, who seems like a players dream as a coach. He plays the kids, he doesn't punish them for their mistakes.

2. They're started to put together a player development team. My gawd, that alone has helped to change my opinion of this new management group.

3. We have a management group who seems to have a plan/direction.

These are only 3 things that we've never seen from past administrations. They not only talk about change, they freaking do it.

There's been no talk of rushing Slaf. Which is why we've had pages and pages debating what we as individuals feel is best for him. The truth is, we only know they want to keep him close (Laval or the Habs).

You're again looking at past administrations decisions/mistakes. You nor I have no idea whether the plan is to yo-yo him back and forth between Laval and Montreal. You have to start looking in the present. Listen to what HuGo says.

Again you're speculating, you have no idea how TPS would use Slaf.

Teams don't force players to do goofy McDonald's type promos. Player agents are responsible for that.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, since I don't know what's best for him as an individual player. Yet you feel the need to slam keeping him here in either Laval or Montreal. Without even knowing what they have planned for him. Only going by what you've seen the Habs do with previous prospects. Under a totally different management group.

I'm not trying to convince you to see things my way. I fully respect your opinions. I just think you may need to be a little more open minded. Things are not the same as they have been in the past. I'm willing to give this new administration the benefit of the doubt. Though I can understand why you're less trusting than I am.

 

[417]

The idea of sending Slafkovsky back to Liiga purely to meet some arbitrary PPG threshold that eases our own anxiety about the pick is completely ridiculous.

 

[417]

That's fair, I can see that the last few administrations have scarred you. I can definitely understand that. But take a look at the additions that the team has made.

1. MSL, who seems like a players dream as a coach. He plays the kids, he doesn't punish them for their mistakes.

2. They're started to put together a player development team. My gawd, that alone has helped to change my opinion of this new management group.

3. We have a management group who seems to have a plan/direction.

These are only 3 things that we've never seen from past administrations. They not only talk about change, they freaking do it.

There's been no talk of rushing Slaf. Which is why we've had pages and pages debating what we as individuals feel is best for him. The truth is, we only know they want to keep him close (Laval or the Habs).

You're again looking at past administrations decisions/mistakes. You nor I have no idea whether the plan is to yo-yo him back and forth between Laval and Montreal. You have to start looking in the present. Listen to what HuGo says.

Again you're speculating, you have no idea how TPS would use Slaf.

Teams don't force players to do goofy McDonald's type promos. Player agents are responsible for that.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, since I don't know what's best for him as an individual player. Yet you feel the need to slam keeping him here in either Laval or Montreal. Without even knowing what they have planned for him. Only going by what you've seen the Habs do with previous prospects. Under a totally different management group.

I'm not trying to convince you to see things my way. I fully respect your opinions. I just think you may need to be a little more open minded. Things are not the same as they have been in the past. I'm willing to give this new administration the benefit of the doubt. Though I can understand why you're less trusting than I am.

Imagine wanting him sent back to an organization you know nothing about, have no idea how they plan to use or develop him, rather than keeping him close under our own organizations supervision, an organization that's invested in him succeeding vs another who isn't.

Just because you need him to meet or exceed some nerdy ass PPG threshold you've come up with, so you can feel better about him. Smdh.

Could never be me.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Once something changes, I will believe it has changed. Until it happens, I won't change my tune.

Wanna know why?

We heard the exact same thing when Gainey/Gauthier became Bergevin.

This is such a fallacious line of thinking.