Prospect Info: [2022 - 1st OA] Juraj Slafkovsky (LW) Part 2

[Habs10Habs]

Imagine wanting him sent back to an organization you know nothing about, have no idea how they plan to use or develop him, rather than keeping him close under our own organizations supervision, an organization that's invested in him succeeding vs another who isn't.

Just because you need him to meet or exceed some nerdy ass PPG threshold you've come up with, so you can feel better about him. Smdh.

Could never be me.

This is exactly what I'm thinking. I would much rather have a say in what direction his development goes. Than cross my fingers and hope that another organization will do what's best for him.

In certain situations, that may be the best for certain players. When it comes to Slaf though. He's not some random 3rd round pick that we have moderate hopes for. So I can definitely see why HuGo wants to keep him as close as possible.

 

[Hacketts]

Worked well with Kotkaniemi! Lapointe and Bouillon, who are still employed by the club, had full control over his development. What we want is more control over a project's development, since we have such a good track record of it.


Once something changes, I will believe it has changed. Until it happens, I won't change my tune.

Wanna know why?

We heard the exact same thing when Gainey/Gauthier became Bergevin.

The new GM's cohort inherited a top pick too. They rushed him too. Shall we get into Galchenyuk's development (under full control of the team)? Did he progress much between his first season and his later season?

Now I understand that sending Slaf back to Liiga means relinquishing control over his deployment and (indirectly) his development. But I also trust literally any other hockey organization with fostering an offensive player's vision and hockey IQ but not the Habs. I think TPS or any other team would be happy to have Slaf and will use him to his maximal ability. With the Habs we will see him yo-yo'd and playing for the worst team in the NHL, we will get him to do goofy McDonald's promos, we will lean on his gregarious personality and forget that he needs to focus on his game and to learn how to friggin produce some god damn points when he plays in the league. MSL can only do so much. Slaf has to be in a position where he has to solve problems and challenges -- he couldn't solve Liiga last year (obviously, just look at his awful league stats) there is no shame in going back to do his best.

Rant over. We won't convince each other and I'm not trying to convert anyone to my cause. I really have zero faith in the Habs organization's ability to develop offensive players, which is pretty much the main reason why I rooted against drafting Slafkovsky. If he had burned through Liiga I would be a lot less hesitant but he is clearly a player who needs to develop his vision and ability to use his tools, trends going back several GM regimes says the Habs will not help him and might hurt him.

Yeah he actually was developing into a decent player, many people here seem to forget that he was having a career year prior to that injury against the Kings. In his 5th season with us he had 23pts in 25gp including the game he got injured.

His first 4 seasons he was trending in the right direction, the year before that injury he put up 30 goals so I would say he was progressing until a series of unfortunate events took place. Did we make it easy on him with the constant narrative of if he's a C or W.. absolutely not. But to say he wasn't progressing just feeds into your narrative that is unfortunately not based in reality but rather you thinking you're the smartest guy on this board.

Dec 4th 2016 was when Alex Galchenyuk's career went off the tracks.

 

[417]

This is exactly what I'm thinking. I would much rather have a say in what direction his development goes. Than cross my fingers and hope that another organization will do what's best for him.

In certain situations, that may be the best for certain players. When it comes to Slaf though. He's not some random 3rd round pick that we have moderate hopes for. So I can definitely see why HuGo wants to keep him as close as possible.

I don't know how anyone can look at how that team used him last year, and actually want him to go back there this year.

Ahhh yes...because if he's not at least at .824763976 PPG, he shouldn't cross the Atlantic Ocean.

 

[Runner77]

That's fair, I can see that the last few administrations have scarred you. I can definitely understand that. But take a look at the additions that the team has made.

1. MSL, who seems like a players dream as a coach. He plays the kids, he doesn't punish them for their mistakes.

2. They're started to put together a player development team. My gawd, that alone has helped to change my opinion of this new management group.

3. We have a management group who seems to have a plan/direction.

These are only 3 things that we've never seen from past administrations. They not only talk about change, they freaking do it.

There's been no talk of rushing Slaf. Which is why we've had pages and pages debating what we as individuals feel is best for him. The truth is, we only know they want to keep him close (Laval or the Habs).

You're again looking at past administrations decisions/mistakes. You nor I have no idea whether the plan is to yo-yo him back and forth between Laval and Montreal. You have to start looking in the present. Listen to what HuGo says.

Again you're speculating, you have no idea how TPS would use Slaf.

Teams don't force players to do goofy McDonald's type promos. Player agents are responsible for that.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, since I don't know what's best for him as an individual player. Yet you feel the need to slam keeping him here in either Laval or Montreal. Without even knowing what they have planned for him. Only going by what you've seen the Habs do with previous prospects. Under a totally different management group.

I'm not trying to convince you to see things my way. I fully respect your opinions. I just think you may need to be a little more open minded. Things are not the same as they have been in the past. I'm willing to give this new administration the benefit of the doubt. Though I can understand why you're less trusting than I am.

A lot of our fans are suffering from PTSD and I’m certain that you’re not blaming them. I feel the same since we haven’t experienced competent management operating at such a level in a long time.

If I had to summarize your many compelling points with a one liner, it would be “that was then, this is now.”

 

[Habs10Habs]

I don't know how anyone can look at how that team used him last year, and actually want him to go back there this year.

Ahhh yes...because if he's not at least at .824763976 PPG, he shouldn't cross the Atlantic Ocean.

I've heard positives and negatives of his time there last year. Though the bottom line for me is. Which organization benefits the most from Slaf reaching his full potential? TPS or the Habs?

TPS wants to win, and could care less if Slaf's development takes a hit in the meantime. The Habs on the other hand consider Slaf to be a valuable asset. It's easy for me to see which organization would put in all the time and resources needed for him to become the true player he's meant to be.

 

[Gravity]

At this point Slaf has been compared to every NHL player over 6'3". Might as well wait to see him play.

 

[417]

A lot of our fans are suffering from PTSD and I’m certain that you’re not blaming them. I feel the same since we haven’t experienced competent management operating at such a level in a long time.

If I had to summarize your many compelling points with a one liner, it would be “that was then, this is now.”

The part that doesn't make sense to me with this kind of thinking and by that, I mean the PTSD we suffer from as fans which makes it impossible to experience happiness about anything Habs related, is that while guys like Galchenyuk or Kotkaniemi flopped.

Guys like Suzuki didn't...so one can waste time drawing parallels to previous situations and players.

The truth is every situation is different individually...

Kotkaniemi or Galchenyuk or Beaulieu or McCarron or Slafkovsky have nothing in common with each other, other than they were all drafted in the 1st round by the same team.

 

[Gravity]

The part that doesn't make sense to me with this kind of thinking and by that, I mean the PTSD we suffer from as fans which makes it impossible to experience happiness about anything Habs related, is that while guys like Galchenyuk or Kotkaniemi flopped.

Guys like Suzuki didn't...so one can waste time drawing parallels to previous situations and players.

The truth is every situation is different individually...

Kotkaniemi or Galchenyuk or Beaulieu or McCarron or Slafkovsky have nothing in common with each other, other than they were all drafted in the 1st round by the same team.

By different people within the same org as well to boot.

 

[CHfan1]

At this point Slaf has been compared to every NHL player over 6'3". Might as well wait to see him play.

They should move him to defence, his playing style really reminds me of Chara.

 

[417]

I've heard positives and negatives of his time there last year. Though the bottom line for me is. Which organization benefits the most from Slaf reaching his full potential? TPS or the Habs?

TPS wants to win, and could care less if Slaf's development takes a hit in the meantime. The Habs on the other hand consider Slaf to be a valuable asset. It's easy for me to see which organization would put in all the time and resources needed for him to become the true player he's meant to be.

I don't know shit about TPS Turku other than I think Saku Koivu played there.

So I have no desire to see him go back there, what he did there last year doesn't matter to me anymore. It's ancient history.

The most important part of development for me, is actually playing meaningful minutes.

And playing in Montreal or Laval affords the most control over that crucial aspect imo.

 

[Habs10Habs]

A lot of our fans are suffering from PTSD and I’m certain that you’re not blaming them. I feel the same since we haven’t experienced competent management operating at such a level in a long time.

If I had to summarize your many compelling points with a one liner, it would be “that was then, this is now.”

No not at all. I've been a Habs fan for awhile, so like you. I've seen new management come in and promise us fans the world. In this case, I'm not just blindly accepting whatever is being said. I'm skeptical, and paying a lot more attention to not only what is being said, but their actions as well. Some of the points I've listed above have shown me that things can end up different. It also seems that decisions made now aren't rushed. Instead they are well thought out.

Couldn't have said it better myself

 

[Runner77]

The part that doesn't make sense to me with this kind of thinking and by that, I mean the PTSD we suffer from as fans which makes it impossible to experience happiness about anything Habs related, is that while guys like Galchenyuk or Kotkaniemi flopped.

Guys like Suzuki didn't...so one can waste time drawing parallels to previous situations and players.

The truth is every situation is different individually...

Kotkaniemi or Galchenyuk or Beaulieu or McCarron or Slafkovsky have nothing in common with each other, other than they were all drafted in the 1st round by the same team.

Exactly. Fans’ knee-jerk reactions to this administration based on the failings of predecessors, needs to be compartmentalized.

A greater track record showing the implementation of a smart plan and results will go a longer way with some but let’s at least give current management a chance.

 

[CHfan1]

Exactly. Fans’ knee-jerk reactions to this administration based on the failings of predecessors, needs to be compartmentalized.

A greater track record showing the implementation of a smart plan and results will go a longer way with some but let’s at least give current management a chance.

The sudden 180 of Caufield’s game last season, and to a lesser extent Suzuki’s, has given me more faith in this regime’s ability to develop a players game than the Bergevin era ever did. It’s not like Slafkovsky is going into an organization that has Ducharme and Lefebrve coaching.

 

[Habs10Habs]

I don't know shit about TPS Turku other than I think Saku Koivu played there.

So I have no desire to see him go back there, what he did there last year doesn't matter to me anymore. It's ancient history.

The most important part of development for me, is actually playing meaningful minutes.

And playing in Montreal or Laval affords the most control over that crucial aspect imo.

Other than Koivu, I don't know much about TPS either. Just from what I've read in articles, and from some European posters on other boards comments.

We're in total agreement here. I feel the Habs, whether it be having him play in Laval or Montreal. Provides him the opportunity to receive exactly what he needs.

 

[417]

Exactly. Fans’ knee-jerk reactions to this administration based on the failings of predecessors, needs to be compartmentalized.

A greater track record showing the implementation of a smart plan and results will go a longer way with some but let’s at least give current management a chance.

If you've spent the last 8-10 years waiting for the previous regime to get out, only to hold the new regime accountable for the mistakes of their predecessors...

Then I'd argue you'll never be happy with anything this management group will do either.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

If you've spent the last 8-10 years waiting for the previous regime to get out, only to hold the new regime accountable for the mistakes of their predecessors...

Then I'd argue you'll never be happy with anything this management group will do either.

It also means you have zero credibility because you have zero capacity for logical thinking.

 

[Runner77]

No not at all. I've been a Habs fan for awhile, so like you. I've seen new management come in and promise us fans the world. In this case, I'm not just blindly accepting whatever is being said. I'm skeptical, and paying a lot more attention to not only what is being said, but their actions as well. Some of the points I've listed above have shown me that things can end up different. It also seems that decisions made now aren't rushed. Instead they are well thought out.

Couldn't have said it better myself

I love how this administration is embracing modern methods and have added key pieces in doing so (analytics, more development focused approach, an offensively-inclined outside the box head coach, prioritizing speed, skill and adding size where it fits their approach).

If you've spent the last 8-10 years waiting for the previous regime to get out, only to hold the new regime accountable for the mistakes of their predecessors...

Then I'd argue you'll never be happy with anything this management group will do either.

Mind you, some will never be happy but that’s par for the course. No fan base is a monolith, outliers can just be.

 

[Habs10Habs]

I love how this administration is embracing modern methods and have added key pieces in doing so (analytics, more development focused approach, an offensively-inclined outside the box head coach, prioritizing speed, skill and adding size where available).

Me too, and that's why I'm excited to see where all of this takes us. Will all of this enable us to see another Cup in our future? Only time will tell, but I'm thrilled to see the changes. This might be the first time I've been this excited about seeing a non-playoff team.

 

[417]

The sudden 180 of Caufield’s game last season, and to a lesser extent Suzuki’s, has given me more faith in this regime’s ability to develop a players game than the Bergevin era ever did. It’s not like Slafkovsky is going into an organization that has Ducharme and Lefebrve coaching.

I know it's probably more complex then this...but if we look at Suzuki and Caufield (both pre and post MSL) vs guys like Galchenyuk or Kotkaniemi.

What's the common thread for the first group vs the less successful second group?

Suzuki & Caufield (the latter under MSL) both played meaningful minutes. Win or lose, mistakes or not. They never missed shifts, they weren't benched at the slighted error, they weren't sheltered.

I think this is the approach they have to take with Slafkovsky...no matter where he ends up this season, whether that's Montreal or Laval.

The key is he has to play meaningful minutes and to learn to play through and learn from mistakes and not be consumed by them.

Mind you, some will never be happy but that’s par for the course. No fan base is a monolith, outliers can just be.

I still don't quite know what to expect from this new management.

But the Tyler Toffoli trade was probably my first indication that we've got a pretty forward-thinking group.

I don't think the previous regime would have ever even considered trading a guy who was one of our top forwards, on a pretty good value contract.

 

[Runner77]

I know it's probably more complex then this...but if we look at Suzuki and Caufield (both pre and post MSL) vs guys like Galchenyuk or Kotkaniemi.

What's the common thread for the first group vs the less successful second group?

Suzuki & Caufield (the latter under MSL) both played meaningful minutes. Win or lose, mistakes or not. They never missed shifts, they weren't benched at the slighted error, they weren't sheltered.

I think this is the approach they have to take with Slafkovsky...no matter where he ends up this season, whether that's Montreal or Laval.

The key is he has to play meaningful minutes.


I still don't quite know what to expect from this new management.

But the Tyler Toffoli trade was probably my first indication that we've got a pretty forward-thinking group.

I don't think the previous regime would have ever even considered trading a guy who was one of our top forwards, on a pretty good value contract.

That contrasts starkly with the crusty, traditional methods of old time coaches who used to punish young players even for minor mistakes.

It doesn’t mean MSL won’t act if a player is looking to take advantage of any latitude he affords but giving a player the benefit of the doubt and allowing them to make the mistakes that inexperienced players normally make, couldn’t be more effective — especially in a season where the team is not expected to win.

To your point about meaningful minutes, you gotta put a player in a position to succeed if you want him to learn to succeed.

 

[Paddy17]

I'd feel more comfortable to have him develop under MSL than with JF Houle, to be honest. Nothing I've heard or seen from Houle makes me confident about his development methods and philosophy. Sure, he's better than Lefebre (not hard), but he's about as typical and run-of-the-mill conventional minor league coach as you can get.

 

[Habs10Habs]

I still don't quite know what to expect from this new management.

But the Tyler Toffoli trade was probably my first indication that we've got a pretty forward-thinking group.

I don't think the previous regime would have ever even considered trading a guy who was one of our top forwards, on a pretty good value contract.

That's what got my attention too. HuGo came out and said what type of team they wanted early on. After a quick look at the roster, Toffoli stood out like a sore thumb to me. The fact that they moved him, while being one of our top forwards. Was actually a shock to me.

The other was when they said that draft picks were important. But they were also looking to add prospects, who were more advanced in their development. From watching the deals that they've made. It really seems they are sticking with that plan.

 

[417]

That contrasts starkly with the crusty, traditional methods of old time coaches who used to punish young players even for minor mistakes.

And ignore veterans for the same, oft-repeated mistakes.

It's kind of hard to demand collective accountability when you're being selective about who can or can't get awa with certain things (though I guess that's understandable to some level).

It doesn’t mean MSL won’t act if a player is looking to take advantage of any latitude he affords but giving a player the benefit of the doubt and allowing them to make the mistakes that inexperienced players normally make, couldn’t be more effective — especially in a season where the team is not expected to win.

To your point about meaningful minutes, you gotta put a player in a position to succeed if you want him to learn to succeed.

I really don't know what to expect from MSL as a coach, I still have my doubts tactically...but if there's someone who should keenly be be aware of this, it's him.

 

[Habs10Habs]

I'd feel more comfortable to have him develop under MSL than with JF Houle, to be honest. Nothing I've heard or seen from Houle makes me confident about his development methods and philosophy. Sure, he's better than Lefebre (not hard), but he's about as typical and run-of-the-mill conventional minor league coach as you can get.

I'd rather he learn under MSL as well. But I'm also confident that this management team won't hesitate to drop Houle, if they feel he isn't the right one. Instead of letting things drag on like they did with Bergevin at the helm.

 

[Runner77]

I'd feel more comfortable to have him develop under MSL than with JF Houle, to be honest. Nothing I've heard or seen from Houle makes me confident about his development methods and philosophy. Sure, he's better than Lefebre (not hard), but he's about as typical and run-of-the-mill conventional minor league coach as you can get.

Do we know how Houle has changed his approach, if at all, under current management?

And ignore veterans for the same, oft-repeated mistakes.

It's kind of hard to demand collective accountability when you're being selective about who can or can't get awa with certain things (though I guess that's understandable to some level).

I really don't know what to expect from MSL as a coach, I still have my doubts tactically...but if there's someone who should keenly be be aware of this, it's him.

Tactically, I share the same skepticism. Also, I don’t get what he sees in Burrows. Can’t be that better options were not available but maybe he knows something we don’t.

What’s particular about this coaching contingent is that they are only one of two league-wide, if I’m not mistaken, made up completely of ex-players.

All for another thread.