Prospect Info: [2022 - 1st OA] Juraj Slafkovsky (LW) Part 2

[Garbageyuk]

This is how you know everybody is full of baloney and nearly nobody has seen the guy play in any reliable sense of the word.

Or… that he’s a very special unicorn and will utilize his many gifts and talents and tools to be the greatest winger in the sport’s history.

He’s similar in style to guys like Puljujarvi, Armia, Zubrus, Nichushkin, and Jagr. Obviously that’s quite the spread in talent level, but they all play a somewhat similar style to varying degrees of effectiveness. The first 4 are/were all basically 3rd line grinders, so hopefully he ends up somewhere in the massive gap in talent between Nichushkin and Jagr.

 

[ReHabs]

I don’t think they’ll send him back to Liiga:

His 10 pts was just too good for Liiga. Gotta keep the foot on the gas, he’s outgrown all Liiga. Maybe in Laval he can finally hit 0.5ppg.

 

[RationalExpectations]

He’s similar in style to guys like Puljujarvi, Armia, Zubrus, Nichushkin, and Jagr. Obviously that’s quite the spread in talent level, but they all play a somewhat similar style to varying degrees of effectiveness. The first 4 are/were all basically 3rd line grinders, so hopefully he ends up somewhere in the massive gap in talent between Nichushkin and Jagr.

To be fair he is much more impressive physically than those non Jagr guys at the same age. That being said, I find that Armia had better hockey IQ without the puck at the same age (and people tend to forget that Armia was considered one of the best snipers of his draft class).

His 10 pts was just too good for Liiga. Gotta keep the foot on the gas, he’s outgrown all Liiga. Maybe in Laval he can finally hit 0.5ppg.

I think you and I agreed that MTL should have gone with another pick but now that he is here I d definitely prefer to see him in Laval where MTL can fully control his development and get him accustomed to North America rather than in Liiga.

 

[Kojo]

His 10 pts was just too good for Liiga. Gotta keep the foot on the gas, he’s outgrown all Liiga. Maybe in Laval he can finally hit 0.5ppg.

What is it worth to you to post this nonsense constantly?

 

[ReHabs]

What is it worth to you to post this nonsense constantly?

Because it’s clear the Habs have zero idea what to do with a player/prospect like Slafkovsky. Rushing him to North America is a bad move in my opinion because he admitted himself he was not comfortable in Liiga — as in, he wasn’t thriving there. If he can’t thrive in the fourth or so best league then surely he won’t thrive in any higher league without divine intervention.

As for nonsense — his stats are facts, just like his good stats against the national teams of France and Kazakhstan in international tournaments.

What is nonsense is everybody pretending like Slafkovsky is a blue chip prospect who has graduated to being on the cusp of NHL-ready when in reality he has a multitude of question marks and a lot to prove.

Camp will reveal all but Kotkaniemi earned a spot at camp too. So if the Habs wanna rush yet another incomplete prospect they will make sure to do so.

There is nothing wrong with him doing another season in Liiga and actually scoring more than five goals. Use his god given gifts to become an effective hockey player without the spotlight of Montreal and the itchy trigger finger of the Habs organization.

 

[ReHabs]

To be fair he is much more impressive physically than those non Jagr guys at the same age. That being said, I find that Armia had better hockey IQ without the puck at the same age (and people tend to forget that Armia was considered one of the best snipers of his draft class).


I think you and I agreed that MTL should have gone with another pick but now that he is here I d definitely prefer to see him in Laval where MTL can fully control his development and get him accustomed to North America rather than in Liiga.

You’re not allowed to mention Armia because apparently it is a rude comparison. Instead you should bring up Hossa, Messier, and Jagr.

As for development control, I’m afraid of his development being in the hands of the Habs. He is too valuable to risk and hope the Habs have changed overnight.

The safest route is the same one Caufield and Suzuki took: as far away from Laval as possible until the last minute.

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

Because it’s clear the Habs have zero idea what to do with a player/prospect like Slafkovsky.

How is it 'clear'? He was drafted a few months ago? He hasn't played a single game since then.

 

[RationalExpectations]

You’re not allowed to mention Armia because apparently it is a rude comparison. Instead you should bring up Hossa, Messier, and Jagr.

As for development control, I’m afraid of his development being in the hands of the Habs. He is too valuable to risk and hope the Habs have changed overnight.

The safest route is the same one Caufield and Suzuki took: as far away from Laval as possible until the last minute.

I agree development has been poor to say the least but Caufield and Suzuki were in juniors already, for him it would be a step back and it's too easy to dominate juniors and take bad habits there given his frame. You mentioned Liiga, I'd argue that the difference in terms of level is not huge with the AHL and at least in Laval he'll get accustomed to the NA style of play and rink. Also a Liiga coach won't play him on the PP if he does not score immediately while in Laval their goal will be to develop him

 

[ReHabs]

I agree development has been poor to say the least but Caufield and Suzuki were in juniors already, for him it would be a step back and it's too easy to dominate juniors and take bad habits there given his frame. You mentioned Liiga, I'd argue that the difference in terms of level is not huge with the AHL and at least in Laval he'll get accustomed to the NA style of play and rink. Also a Liiga coach won't play him on the PP if he does not score immediately while in Laval their goal will be to develop him

Isn't it better for him to earn PP time rather than be gifted it? If he can't earn playing time in Liiga then he's surely not suited for the NHL at this time. I think you have a good point about AHL vs Liiga, but I really don't like our AHL system right now -- zero interesting graduates.

How is it 'clear'? He was drafted a few months ago? He hasn't played a single game since then.

The Habs haven't developed or drafted a single PPG player in a very long time (decades). Until they prove they can do it, I don't think it's wise to risk our 1OA pick in their hands. You can't really teach vision or hockey IQ, and the Habs are exceptionally bad at developing offensive players. Risk another, lesser player but not the 1OA who already has question marks around his ability to produce in league play.

That's my position -- hope it makes sense even if you disagree.

If he shows he can game in Liiga this year, then he can come over the following year with a ton of confidence and get a middle-6 NHL role.

 

[tazsub3]

To be fair he is much more impressive physically than those non Jagr guys at the same age. That being said, I find that Armia had better hockey IQ without the puck at the same age (and people tend to forget that Armia was considered one of the best snipers of his draft class).

You are correct on armia and how he was viewed, but armia was never thought of a player that pushes the boundaries and elevate his game at crunch time like Slav is viewed .

 

[RationalExpectations]

You are correct on armia and how he was viewed, but armia was never thought of a player that pushes the boundaries and elevate his game at crunch time like Slav is viewed .

Armia already had consistency issues at Liiga level but was seen as a credible top 6 option, and had no superstar expectations this is true.

That being said I believe Armia's best hockey was playing with Staal and Perry. I think it would be nice to have another line like this one, able to keep puck possession and Wear the opponents down.

The question is whether Slaf Can produce in a consitent manner AT pro level which he has not show yet

 

[ReHabs]

Armia already had consistency issues at Liiga level but was seen as a credible top 6 option, and had no superstar expectations this is true.

That being said I believe Armia's best hockey was playing with Staal and Perry. I think it would be nice to have another line like this one, able to keep puck possession and Wear the opponents down.

The question is whether Slaf Can produce in a consitent manner AT pro level which he has not show yet

If you think Armia had consistency issues in Liiga, lemme tell you about someone else…

 

[RationalExpectations]

Isn't it better for him to earn PP time rather than be gifted it? If he can't earn playing time in Liiga then he's surely not suited for the NHL at this time. I think you have a good point about AHL vs Liiga, but I really don't like our AHL system right now -- zero interesting graduates.

In theory I agree but they need to show off Slaf since he was a 1OA

If you think Armia had consistency issues in Liiga, lemme tell you about someone else…

You don't have to convince me.

 

[Heffyhoof]

If you think Armia had consistency issues in Liiga, lemme tell you about someone else…

No need, your last 1000 or so comments already have.

 

[WeThreeKings]

His 10 pts was just too good for Liiga. Gotta keep the foot on the gas, he’s outgrown all Liiga. Maybe in Laval he can finally hit 0.5ppg.

Dude, the horse is so f***ing dead that I'm starting to believe you've entered a morbid relationship with its corpse.

 

[Colezuki]

If you think Armia had consistency issues in Liiga, lemme tell you about someone else…

I look forward to your “told you so post” when slaf either beats expectations or doesn’t meet them

 

[ReHabs]

No need, your last 1000 or so comments already have.

Lighten up. Camp is starting soon. Slafkovsky will blow my socks off!

I look forward to your “told you so post” when slaf either beats expectations or doesn’t meet them

Feel free to rub my nose into any shitty declaration I’ve made. I think I’ve been careful with my words but if you catch me lackin’ or slippin’ take your shots

Dude, the horse is so f***ing dead that I'm starting to believe you've entered a morbid relationship with its corpse.

Rushing Slaf into North America when all he’s leaving in Liiga is a floating turd is exactly the kind of arrogant nonsense move I’ve come to expect from the Habs.

 

[Sam de Mtl]

That's my position -- hope it makes sense even if you disagree.

It doesn't, but it's ok.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

We can agree that all three of Getzlaf, LeClair and Gillies are absolutely terrible comparables to Slafkovsky. It should be pointed out however that it took Getzlaf 5 years after he was drafted to reach a PPG. Either way he is a bad comparison as he is a pure playmaker and plays a very different style than Slafkovsky.

The Gillies comparison is bizzare as he was one of the most feared fighters in the history of the league and while he was skilled he was mostly the big bruiser on one of the the greatest lines in history that was carried primarily by Bossy and Trottier. LeClair might be the closest of the three but his stats were significantly inflated by playing with Lindros. LeClair was very much a straight line power forward with size, speed and a great shot who stylistically is more similar to Josh Anderson than Juraj Slafkovsky. I was a big fan of all three of these guys but none of them remind me very much of Slafkovsky.

Slafkovsky stylistically tries to play more like Jagr and Sundin, whether he has any success with that remains to be seen but he loves to play to contact and use his size/hands to carry the puck from the corner to the front of the net. I am not in any way claiming that he will be nearly as successful as these two but there are some significant stylistic similarities. Maybe he ends up closer to a Dainus Zubrus who also shares many similarities, who knows but these are much closer stylistic comparisons than any of Getzlaf/LeClair/Gillies are.

I’m not so sure on the inflated numbers stuff with Leclair. Everyone says that, 2 out of his 3 best years Lindros missed 20-30 games. What helped Leclair more than Lindros imo was getting 1st line duty. He was an awesome talent on his own. I suspect his with/without Lindros numbers aren’t remarkably different. Josh Anderson has almost nothing in common with Leclair other than they are both tall.

I don’t think Slaf plays much like Jagr either, I don’t think many can, that’s not a knock on Slaf, I just don’t see much of a stylistic comparison there. There aren’t many comparable to Slaf that’s what makes him unique. He has the chance to become a player that is almost impossible to find. Let’s see how he does.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Nah...this dude different.

Love his workout routine. His bench looked a bit weak, but otherwise, Wowsers. Kid don’t mind putting in the work. It all starts there.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

He was a generational talent whose career was derailed by concussions. The Legion of Doom line was easily the greatest combination of skill, speed, and physicality that has ever played in the NHL. I remember him in the Canada Cup as freshly drafted 18 year old absolutely decimating opposing dmen. He had NHL all star calibre defenders who were shitting their pants when he was on the ice against them. My father and I were nearly in tears laughing as this manchild and human wrecking ball was unleashed against grown men who were frantically coughing up pucks and aborting puck battles. The kid beat out Steve Yzerman ffs for a roster spot without having played a single NHL game.

So yeah......any comparison to Lindros in regards to Slafkovsky's ceiling is certifiably insane.

So did Dirk Graham. Hockey Canada makes bizarre selections at times. More at 3pm.

Lindros was very special, but he wasn’t really beating Stevie Y for that spot based on anything other than uniqueness. They weren’t even competing for the same spot. No Slaf has no chance of being that good.

There also might have been a bit of bad luck. At the Olympics he had 33% shooting percentage, at the World Championship he had 19% (not far above top NHL snipers that can have 16+%) and in his first stint in Liiga he had 2%, second Ligga stint + playoffs he had single digit %. And to give an idea of the level of his line mates and his circumstances in Liiga= In the whole season (playoffs included), he had only 1 secondary assist.

Sounds to me like he definitely had good luck on an unsustainable Shooting % at the Olympics, less so at the worlds, but still way above where he will likely pace.

 

[BaseballCoach]

So he's not good enough for the top6, but good enough for PP time? Why is JF Houle so horrible compared to MSL?

Funny you're mentioning two players not with the Habs organization and another one that will most likely be in the NHL.

In Laval, he would play 20 minutes a night on the 1st line and 1st PP unit.

That is better for him to start in NA than playing 10 minutes on the fourth line with Evans and Pezzetta or Armia.

A rookie can produce on the PP without being just yet good enough defenisvely to handle top 6 minutes against other top lines.

This is EXACTLY how Vinny Lecavlier started ih Tampa. Third line with PP time. Same with Jack Hughes, who developed into an over ppg player by his third season.

Agreed that if Slaf looks like he is not up to calibre on the PP, then he does not belong in the NHL.

The whole thing of 20 minutes a night against 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th liners is a flawed idea. Even AFTER playing in the AHL, rookies come up and start on the bottom 6, usually the fourth line and the better ones perhaps a third line, with PP time. Jeez, does that sound familiar?

Suzuki started out on the fourth line with Torrey Mitchell and Brian Flynn. All the extra development he got playing very well for two years post-draft against children and teenagers did not exempt him from the usual NHL rookie path.

Suzuki had his camp with the Habs at 19 and showed he was not strong enough to make the team, so it was logical to cut him. Had he been strong enough, he would have got 9 games then an evaluation.

This is how it works everywhere. I think Habs fans have been jaded by the way that Therrien, Julien (especially) and Ducharme treated youngsters as they made some inevitable mistakes. And I agree that if the mistakes keep happening, you have to go down to Laval to learn to play defence. But not to learn offence. The AHL is full of guys who are strong offensively at that level and who never make a mark in the show.

There is a reason that dominating the Belziles, Schuenemans and Brooks proves nothing.

Look at Caufield. He struggled in the NHL, sent down and did well in Laval, came back up and struggled some more UNDER DUCHARME. Then, a change of coach and of approach to development, and he quickly became much, much, much better.

Now that the Habs are committed to developing their NHL talented prospects, I have faith they will make the right choices most of the time.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Your argument is that a guy from 49 years ago did it so Slafkovsky can do it?

Maybe Slafkovsky should walk 10km in the snow to get to the Arena, That's how we did it back in my day.

Is Jack Hughes a recent enough example for you? Or Andrei Svechnikov?

 

[BaseballCoach]

Or he plays in Laval for 0.5-1 year and then comes in more ready for an offensive role with PP time.

If he is a big liability defensively and is not improving, then yes he has to go down, and hopefully indeed play 20 minutes a night, to learn to cut down the mistakes so he can come back up and be trusted.

But if the tricks that worked for him in Junior and European weaker pro leagues are not good enough to produce in the NHL, sending him down to succeed with those tricks against AHL players DOES NOT FIX ANYTHING!!

He has to play against the best to get better. That is the case everywhere. Most of the CHL top draft picks played in the CHL at 16. Not all were stars right away. Not all began in the top 6 right away. But very, very few with talent were purposely sent down to Junior AAA to "develop their offence".

Now, if the Habs were competing for a cup and had 6 Lehkonens in their bottom 6 and thought they could not afford any rookie mistakes, then I get keeping some borderline players down, like Detroit did when they were a contender every year.

But this is not the case here, nor is it normally the case for teams who drafted 1OA, so let's not use Detroit as the slam dunk example. Let's look to see how all the teams who supposedly "tanked to draft high" developed those high talents, and it was almost never in the AHL.

Forget Crosby, Ovechkin and McDavid, no one suggests they should have started in the AHL. But neither did Jordan Staal, Steven Stamkos, Victor Hedman, Taylor Hall, RNH, Tyler Seguin, Nathan Mackinnon, John Tavares, Aaron Ekblad, Rasmus Dahlin, Andrei Svechnikov, Jack Hughes, Nico Hischier.

There is a clear reason. It is that you do not develop game-breaking offence in the AHL.

 

[Treb]

A rookie can produce on the PP without being just yet good enough defenisvely to handle top 6 minutes against other top lines.

This is EXACTLY how Vinny Lecavlier started ih Tampa. Third line with PP time. Same with Jack Hughes, who developed into an over ppg player by his third season.

Agreed that if Slaf looks like he is not up to calibre on the PP, then he does not belong in the NHL.

The whole thing of 20 minutes a night against 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th liners is a flawed idea. Even AFTER playing in the AHL, rookies come up and start on the bottom 6, usually the fourth line and the better ones perhaps a third line, with PP time. Jeez, does that sound familiar?

Suzuki started out on the fourth line with Torrey Mitchell and Brian Flynn. All the extra development he got playing very well for two years post-draft against children and teenagers did not exempt him from the usual NHL rookie path.

Suzuki had his camp with the Habs at 19 and showed he was not strong enough to make the team, so it was logical to cut him. Had he been strong enough, he would have got 9 games then an evaluation.

This is how it works everywhere. I think Habs fans have been jaded by the way that Therrien, Julien (especially) and Ducharme treated youngsters as they made some inevitable mistakes. And I agree that if the mistakes keep happening, you have to go down to Laval to learn to play defence. But not to learn offence. The AHL is full of guys who are strong offensively at that level and who never make a mark in the show.

There is a reason that dominating the Belziles, Schuenemans and Brooks proves nothing.

Look at Caufield. He struggled in the NHL, sent down and did well in Laval, came back up and struggled some more UNDER DUCHARME. Then, a change of coach and of approach to dvelopment, and he wquickly became much, much, much better.

Now that the Habs are committed to developing their NHL talented prospects, I have faith they will make the right choices most of the time.

What's flawed is you calling the AHL the fifth to eight lines.

But anyway, you seem to have an utter disgust for the AHL so there's not much to discuss here.