Prospect Info: [2022 - 1st OA] Juraj Slafkovsky (LW) Part 2

[ReHabs]

This is such a fallacious line of thinking.

There is continuity between a lot of back office and trainer staff from the Bergevin regime to the present one. It takes more than a few hires to turn an organization around -- all I'm saying is it's a bit too early to think the organisation's "issues" are resolved.

 

[CapSpace]

For some reason, i read Zubrus and immediately thought Bulis in my mind. I mean Bulis was fast, at least. If only he didn't think he was an offensive dynamo with that one 4 goal game lol

I have no recollection of anything Zubrus ever do here. Can't even remember who we traded for him. Malakhov?

We gave Dr Recchi for him.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

For some reason, i read Zubrus and immediately thought Bulis in my mind. I mean Bulis was fast, at least. If only he didn't think he was an offensive dynamo with that one 4 goal game lol

I have no recollection of anything Zubrus ever do here. Can't even remember who we traded for him. Malakhov?

We traded Recchi back to Philadelphia for Zubrus and he was eventually part of the deal along with Linden that brought Zednik, Bulis and Perezhogin to Montreal.....maybe this is where your conflation with Bulis originated from?

 

[BaseballCoach]

I think the only difference in our case with how we see the Slaf pick and Slaf Development Plan (that is yet to be revealed but heavily hinted at) is this line you had "I'm willing to give this new administration the benefit of the doubt."

I won't go so far to say I don't have any optimism, but I don't have any faith. I think there is a slight difference. I've been rooting for the new admin and have praised them regularly, in particular the MSL hire which was inspired and impressive. So I'm not saying they will ruin Slaf 100% with no chance of success but I would say that I want to minimise the risk of seeing yet another offensive prospect's potential wither and die at the hands of the CH.

I think MSL commands respect and I hope the development coaches they've added will have an impact but it takes time to turn an organisation's protocols and processes around (this is my job) so I'm not secure in thinking all issues have been resolved and suddenly the NHL team that butchered their players' offensive instincts could suddenly develop them and help them grow.

Playing in the NHL does not butcher one's offensive instincts if the team is committed to develop those instincts, and they are good at it.

Playing in a lesser league in order to correct recurrent costly mistakes is sometimes necessary. This is particularly so if the mistakes are frequent enough and severe enough to significantly reduce playing time and the reduction in playing time has affecteed confidence and stalled development.

Each coach/team draws the line with respect to curtailing playing time, and by how much, in different places. When in rebuild phase, there is more tolerance of youngsters' mistakes for two reasons:
a) there is no pressure to win at all costs
b) there are fewer reliable and USEFUL veterans around that would have to sit out in order to allow risky players to play in their place.

In our case for 2022-23, we already know that the management team has stated they are prioritizing development, and we already have a boatload of veterans with disappointing production and plenty of defensive flaws themselves that need not be prioritized.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

There is continuity between a lot of back office and trainer staff from the Bergevin regime to the present one. It takes more than a few hires to turn an organization around -- all I'm saying is it's a bit too early to think the organisation's "issues" are resolved.

I would say it is too early to make any meaningful prognostications one way or another with this group. But there is certainly room for optimism based on the over arching team building philosophy that Hughes and Gorton have advertised to the fan base and to the players. The previous regime's issues always seemed to orbit around the team's insistence on winning now, whereas the focus on developmental process appears to have taken clear precedence with the current group.

I don't see any reason to tether this group's projected outcomes to those of the past regime as most developmental ties have been severed. The trainers and other support staff are little more than generic tools that will have a net zero impact relative to other organizations. Even a guy like Burrows is a different asset when his impact is being guided by MSL's philosophies.

I think this organization is extremely progressive and are unapologetic in their attempt to push past developmental archetypes that they might deem to be less effective than the general consensus. This feels borderline experimental but it appears as though we might have some hockey minds who can transcend the current zeitgeist that governs the developmental strategy employed by most teams and more specifically old school regimes like Bergevin ran.

Maybe this whole process crashes and burns or maybe HuGo are developing the archetype of the modern NHL franchise that will be copied for the next decade or two. Either way I am intrigued because I have alot of respect for the intellectual moxie that this organization is brandishing and have high hopes for this particular prospect pool given the likelihood of more blue chip prospects being drafted in the next few seasons.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Can't wait to see him play. This is a long summer.

 

[BenchBrawl]

For some reason, i read Zubrus and immediately thought Bulis in my mind. I mean Bulis was fast, at least. If only he didn't think he was an offensive dynamo with that one 4 goal game lol

I have no recollection of anything Zubrus ever do here. Can't even remember who we traded for him. Malakhov?

Danius Zubrus was part of a line with Sergei Zholtok (RIP) and Oleg Petrov and they had great chemistry for a while, even though the team was abysmal in general. Zubrus didn't fulfill his potential, and trading for him was a gamble, but he still became a valuable NHLer. You know you are when New Jersey of that era finds a spot for you.

As far as I recall, Zubrus was a good two-way player, and solid along the boards, the cycle game, etc. Those are elements we hope Slafkovsky will excel at. But Zubrus never demonstrated the type of skills Slafkovsky has.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Danius Zubrus was part of a line with Sergei Zholtok (RIP) and Oleg Petrov and they had great chemistry for a while, even though the team was abysmal in general. Zubrus didn't fulfill his potential, and trading for him was a gamble, but he still became a valuable NHLer. You know you are when New Jersey of that era finds a spot for you.

As far as I recall, Zubrus was a good two-way player, and solid along the boards, the cycle game, etc. Those are elements we hope Slafkovsky will excel at. But Zubrus never demonstrated the type of skills Slafkovsky has.

Zubrus showed flashes of skill but struggled with the confidence to use it consistently. He broke out before he turned 30 in Washington at almost a ppg clip but could not stay healthy.

I think Slafkovsky has alot more confidence and will try and maximize his skills early in his career. Hopefully it works out better for him than it did for Zubrus because while Zubrus was a good player, we need Slafkovsky to be more than that.

 

[Shred]

Sad that we already have too many forwards because i really think Heineman could be good enough for a spot.

Another case of a player not needing to produce in Europe leagues to be considered NHL ready?

Haven't followed his swedish team of course but looks like he was a 3rd liner over there + has injuries to recover from.

 

[SlafySZN]

Another case of a player not needing to produce in Europe leagues to be considered NHL ready?

Haven't followed his swedish team of course but looks like he was a 3rd liner over there + has injuries to recover from.

He has recovered from his injury. Playing right now in the pre season games in sweden.

19-20 years old who wants to play in the NHL getting burried on the 3rd or 4th line in europe is not chocking.

 

[Habs10Habs]

I think the only difference in our case with how we see the Slaf pick and Slaf Development Plan (that is yet to be revealed but heavily hinted at) is this line you had "I'm willing to give this new administration the benefit of the doubt."

I won't go so far to say I don't have any optimism, but I don't have any faith. I think there is a slight difference. I've been rooting for the new admin and have praised them regularly, in particular the MSL hire which was inspired and impressive. So I'm not saying they will ruin Slaf 100% with no chance of success but I would say that I want to minimise the risk of seeing yet another offensive prospect's potential wither and die at the hands of the CH.

I think MSL commands respect and I hope the development coaches they've added will have an impact but it takes time to turn an organisation's protocols and processes around (this is my job) so I'm not secure in thinking all issues have been resolved and suddenly the NHL team that butchered their players' offensive instincts could suddenly develop them and help them grow.

This is partly why I felt so annoyed at the tire-pumping of the Habs organization during the summer Kotkaniemi was picked. The Habs had endured a fail-tank god awful year and the new PR spin was to say "now, finally, the Habs are taking a deep look at their player development and will prioritise it" and there were tightly controlled fluff pieces from Godin and Basu saying things like "this is a whole new imperative, a whole new approach to player development"... with literally zero change in outcome.

Anyway, I digress. Let's see how it goes.

Yes I am willing to let the new administration have the benefit of the doubt. Not blindly though, as I pointed out earlier. This new administration is not all talk. They have followed up their talk with consistent, positive actions.

You say you want to minimize the risk of Slafkovsky not reaching his full potential. Yet you're willing to let another organization, with no real ties to him. Have 100% control over how he's developed over the next season. Personally I find that to be more of a risk.

Since it's only been a short time since this administration has taken over. Of course things haven't changed 100%. In this short period of time though. They've improved coaching. Bringing in MSL to monitor and mentor these young players. He's also shown that he's going to allow the offensive players to play their game. Not stiffle them with some full blown defensive system. They've started a player developmental program. So there's more one on one with the players. They've improved their analytics department.

Haha...again you're living in the past. Forget about the Kotkaniemi's, the Galchenyuk's etc.. This is not just some PR spin. Talk is cheap, and I wouldn't be excited just from that. As I said not only has there been talk, but action as well. Which you're not even willing to give a chance. Because you're still upset over actions that were made in the past. Let this new group have their time to sink their teeth into the team.

They may fail, nothing is 100% guaranteed. Though I feel this new administration has accomplished more in their short period of time. Then Bergevin and his boys accomplished in the past 10 years. You've said it yourself "I've been rooting for the new admin and have praised them regularly" Yet you're not willing to give them a chance, to accomplish what they've set out to do.

 

[Habs10Habs]

There is continuity between a lot of back office and trainer staff from the Bergevin regime to the present one. It takes more than a few hires to turn an organization around -- all I'm saying is it's a bit too early to think the organisation's "issues" are resolved.

Yes it does, but you're not taking into consideration the new direction that the previous staff will be given to do their jobs. You make it seem like the previous staff will be oblivious to the changes, and just continue what they've done in the past.

Nobody is saying the issues are resolved. If you're expecting that now, that is a bit ridiculous. Change takes time, so patience is needed by us fans. Something we're not famous for.

 

[Sterling Archer]

If HuGo don’t manage to trade 2 forwards before season starts, than Slaf will have to seriously outplay Drouin and Hoffman to make the team. Playing him over them doesn’t make sense as it would only devalue them further while Slaf could easily play in Laval until there’s a spot while he acclimated to NA and the AHL.

I don’t see anything wrong with this scenario to start the year and let him ease in and earn his way into the Habs.

Anderson Suzuki Caufield
Drouin Dach Dadonov
Hoffman Dvorak Gallly
Pitlick Monahan Armia
Pezzetta

Matheson Savard
Edmundson Barron
Harris Wideman
Schuneman

Allan
Monty

 

[CHfan1]

If HuGo don’t manage to trade 2 forwards before season starts, than Slaf will have to seriously outplay Drouin and Hoffman to make the team. Playing him over them doesn’t make sense as it would only devalue them further while Slaf could easily play in Laval until there’s a spot while he acclimated to NA and the AHL.

I don’t see anything wrong with this scenario to start the year and let him ease in and earn his way into the Habs.

Anderson Suzuki Caufield
Drouin Dach Dadonov
Hoffman Dvorak Gallly
Pitlick Monahan Armia
Pezzetta

Matheson Savard
Edmundson Barron
Harris Wideman
Schuneman

Allan
Monty

Increasing players like Drouin and Hoffman value is by far less of a priority than developing and growing the game of the Habs future core. Neither are, probably, going to bring back anything of value in a trade.

If the Habs organization believes the best place to develop Slafkovsky’s game is with the Habs then that’s where he should be. Right now I, also think it should be with Laval, but it depends on how his camp goes.

But if the Habs choose to keep him with the big club the difference I see with MSL vs his predecessors is he will allow a player like Slafkovsky to grow his game while making and learning from his mistakes.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Increasing players like Drouin and Hoffman value is by far less of a priority than developing and growing the game of the Habs future core. Neither are, probably, going to bring back anything of value in a trade.

If the Habs organization believes the best place to develop Slafkovsky’s game is with the Habs then that’s where he should be. Right now I, also think it should be with Laval, but it depends on how his camp goes.

But if the Habs choose to keep him with the big club the difference I see with MSL vs his predecessors is he will allow a player like Slafkovsky to grow his game while making and learning from his mistakes.

That’s why I said in my post Slafkovsky needs to outplay them. IF he doesn’t…

Besides, nothing wrong with starting Slafkovsky in Laval for a while. That will not ruin him by any means. If he busts, it certainly wouldn’t be because of that.

 

[CHfan1]

That’s why I said in my post Slafkovsky needs to outplay them. IF he doesn’t…

Besides, nothing wrong with starting Slafkovsky in Laval for a while. That will not ruin him by any means. If he busts, it certainly wouldn’t be because of that.

If he outplays Drouin and Hoffman, which is very plausible, is the NHL still the best place to start his career? I agree that him going to Laval, where he grow his game, be put in all situations, and learn the North America game won’t ruin him at all.

All I’m saying is the Habs have to prioritize Slafkovsky’s development over growing Drouin and Hoffman’s value, especially if he sticks with the Habs. If he’s on the Habs I’d like to see him getting consistent power play minutes, consistent linemates (in a top 9 role), and never going stretches where he isn’t playing because of a few mistakes.

 

[Redux91]

The idea of sending Slafkovsky back to Liiga purely to meet some arbitrary PPG threshold that eases our own anxiety about the pick is completely ridiculous.

I cannot tell you how disgusted I am you chose to lump us all ...with him. Lol
Like you straight up ruined my day lmao

 

[Sterling Archer]

If he outplays Drouin and Hoffman, which is very plausible, is the NHL still the best place to start his career? I agree that him going to Laval, where he grow his game, be put in all situations, and learn the North America game won’t ruin him at all.

All I’m saying is the Habs have to prioritize Slafkovsky’s development over growing Drouin and Hoffman’s value, especially if he sticks with the Habs. If he’s on the Habs I’d like to see him getting consistent power play minutes, consistent linemates (in a top 9 role), and never going stretches where he isn’t playing because of a few mistakes.

If he outplays Drouin and Hoffman than absolutely keep him up. As long as he can maintain that rate of play and keeps progressing it’s a no brainer.

My post was based on the premise that he does not outplay them. At that point, he’d be better served in Laval to start off and bring him up when he’s ready.

 

[417]

I cannot tell you how disgusted I am you chose to lump us all ...with him. Lol
Like you straight up ruined my day lmao

Fair lol but I know it's a popular take.

 

[BaseballCoach]

That's not how the NHL works. Guys that male 3+ M$ a year play in the NHL, unless they're injured or Wade Redden or Karl Alzner . Unfortunatley. I'd love To see HuGo send Drouin or Armia in Laval, but that's not happening.

lol, LITERALLY lol.

Historically, many more veterans are waived and demoted than 1OAs sent down to save the jobs of the guys whose performance brought the team to the bottom of the previous year's standings.

 

[CHfan1]

If he outplays Drouin and Hoffman than absolutely keep him up. As long as he can maintain that rate of play and keeps progressing it’s a no brainer.

My post was based on the premise that he does not outplay them. At that point, he’d be better served in Laval to start off and bring him up when he’s ready.

I guess all I’m saying is I’m not sure that Slafkovsky/Drouin/Hoffman’s play should necessarily be tied together (with the understanding that typically the best players at camp make the team).

It’s the place where the Habs best believe Slafkovsky can grow his game, under MSL or in Laval. For example even if he outplays Drouin or Hoffman (or one of them gets hurt), if he struggles at the NHL level he should be in Laval to start his career.

 

[Sterling Archer]

I guess all I’m saying is I’m not sure that Slafkovsky/Drouin/Hoffman’s play should necessarily be tied together (with the understanding that typically the best players at camp make the team).

It’s the place where the Habs best believe Slafkovsky can grow his game, under MSL or in Laval. For example even if he outplays Drouin or Hoffman (or one of them gets hurt), if he struggles at the NHL level he should be in Laval to start his career.

If he isn’t outplaying Drouin and/or Hoffman, I’d say that’s a pretty big indication that he’s not NHL ready and should be in Laval to at least start the season. I’d want him getting 18-20+ min a night and he won’t get that on the bottom of the lineup, so Laval makes more sense for his development.

Think of Pacioretty when he was a prospect. He said he’d rather play top offensive minutes on the farm than be in a bottom 6 role and I think very much the same with Slafkovsky.

 

[417]

If he isn’t outplaying Drouin and/or Hoffman, I’d say that’s a pretty big indication that he’s not NHL ready and should be in Laval to at least start the season. I’d want him getting 18-20+ min a night and he won’t get that on the bottom of the lineup, so Laval makes more sense for his development.

Think of Pacioretty when he was a prospect. He said he’d rather play top offensive minutes on the farm than be in a bottom 6 role and I think very much the same with Slafkovsky.

Agreed...If he's just here to fill a jersey likeany previous Habs rookies have done, then he should be in the AHL.

 

[MasterD]

lol, LITERALLY lol.

Historically, many more veterans are waived and demoted than 1OAs sent down to save the jobs of the guys whose performance brought the team to the bottom of the previous year's standings.

We'll see what happens. I don't see him outplaying all those guys this year enough to be on the top 6. I'll be happy if I'm wrong.

 

[Sterling Archer]

lol, LITERALLY lol.

Historically, many more veterans are waived and demoted than 1OAs sent down to save the jobs of the guys whose performance brought the team to the bottom of the previous year's standings.

Not many top 6 forwards are waived and/or sent down though. That’s the spot Slafkovsky is competing for.