Prospect Info: [2022 - 1st OA] Juraj Slafkovsky (LW) Part 2

[BaseballCoach]

We'll see what happens. I don't see him outplaying all those guys this year enough to be on the top 6. I'll be happy if I'm wrong.

He does not have to be top 6 to make the team.

Most 1OAs start in the 34r or 4th lines.

Not many top 6 forwards are waived and/or sent down though. That’s the spot Slafkovsky is competing for.

You frame it that way to get what you want, that he be sent down.

Most 1OAs start on the third line at best.

 

[Sterling Archer]

He does not have to be top 6 to make the team.

Most 1OAs start in the 34r or 4th lines.


You frame it that way to get what you want, that he be sent down.

Most 1OAs start on the third line at best.

Not at all. I hope he does earn a spot and force his way on the team. But if he’s not ready and it’s overwhelming, I don’t want to burn yet another high draft pick.

To your post, I was just narrowing it down to make it realistic. If Slafkovsky isn’t going to get quality minutes, he’ll likely get sent down. Far more likely a scenario than Drouin or Hoffman being waived.

 

[CHfan1]

Not at all. I hope he does earn a spot and force his way on the team. But if he’s not ready and it’s overwhelming, I don’t want to burn yet another high draft pick.

To your post, I was just narrowing it down to make it realistic. If Slafkovsky isn’t going to get quality minutes, he’ll likely get sent down. Far more likely a scenario than Drouin or Hoffman being waived.

If Slafkovsky does make it (and I agree he should only make it if he’s going to be given quality minutes (although I’d be fine if he was on the 3rd line with someone like Dach)) there is a chance they don’t have to waive anyone to make it happen.

They currently have 16 forwards. Byron will most likely start the season on IR (or LTIR), leaving 15. There is always a potential a forward gets injured prior to the start of the season or, although not ideal, they carry 15 forwards, 6 defenceman, and 2 goalies to start the season.

 

[Sterling Archer]

If Slafkovsky does make it (and I agree he should only make it if he’s going to be given quality minutes (although I’d be fine if he was on the 3rd line with someone like Dach)) there is a chance they don’t have to waive anyone to make it happen.

They currently have 16 forwards. Byron will most likely start the season on IR (or LTIR), leaving 15. There is always a potential a forward gets injured prior to the start of the season or, although not ideal, they carry 15 forwards, 6 defenceman, and 2 goalies to start the season.

Guess we’ll wait and see so we don’t have to guess. I imagine there will be moves before anyways.

 

[Runner77]

If HuGo don’t manage to trade 2 forwards before season starts, than Slaf will have to seriously outplay Drouin and Hoffman to make the team. Playing him over them doesn’t make sense as it would only devalue them further while Slaf could easily play in Laval until there’s a spot while he acclimated to NA and the AHL.

I don’t see anything wrong with this scenario to start the year and let him ease in and earn his way into the Habs.

Anderson Suzuki Caufield
Drouin Dach Dadonov
Hoffman Dvorak Gallly
Pitlick Monahan Armia
Pezzetta

Matheson Savard
Edmundson Barron
Harris Wideman
Schuneman

Allan
Monty

Except that Slaf as a 1st OA, is bound to get more rope and thus more chances to show his wares. Already we saw rumblings about how the org. believes he has the attributes to indicate that he’s close to an NHL berth.

Best case scenario is that he makes it on his own merits and let the chips fall where they may. If Slaf is deemed ready and shows it, then let Hoffman, Drouin and whoever else raise their game and make a case for their minutes but not just because Slaf can be sent down.

Slaf should only be sent down if he deserves to.

 

[Runner77]

Not at all. I hope he does earn a spot and force his way on the team. But if he’s not ready and it’s overwhelming, I don’t want to burn yet another high draft pick.

That smacks of Bergevin PTSD (and I’m not singling you out or blaming you one bit — I’m seeing this a lot by several posters in multiple threads).

We’re working with a clean slate now, with the new guys, who have a plan and who are development conscious.

The new guys are not burning anything until they actually burn something. Habs wouldn’t be the first org. to immediately graduate a 1OA selection if he showed he was deserving.

Whatever happened with Chuckie and KK would only really matter if Bergevin were still at the helm. Different players, different times, fresh set of eyes on top of things now and Slaf is Slaf, there is no mold to artificially constrain what he can do, when and how.

 

[Sterling Archer]

That smacks of Bergevin PTSD (and I’m not singling you out or blaming you one bit — I’m seeing this a lot by several posters in multiple threads).

We’re working with a clean slate now, with the new guys, who have a plan and who are development conscious.

The new guys are not burning anything until they actually burn something. Habs wouldn’t be the first org. to immediately graduate a 1OA selection if he showed he was deserving.

Whatever happened with Chuckie and KK would only really matter if Bergevin were still at the helm. Different players, different times, fresh set of eyes on top of things now and Slaf is Slaf, there is no mold to artificially constrain what he can do, when and how.

I’m definitely wary of bringing up any prospect too soon. Since the 90’s Redwings leaving prospects to develop in the AHL until they forced their way into the NHL lineup I’ve been a huge believer giving prospects plenty of time to develop at their pace. Looking at every successful prospect we’ve had, they all had extra time in development leagues before joining the Habs main club. Whether it was in Europe, CHL, or AHL, the best players we’ve had for decades all took longer to come up before they succeeded. By contrast, every “bust” we’ve had from Latendresse, to Chucky, KK etc. were all rushed into the NHL too quickly.

Slafkovsky is the first 1st we’ve had in decades but he isn’t a generational talent. So if he’s ready and can dominate and not have his confidence crushed, I’d love to see that. If he needs some games in Laval to acclimate and gain confidence until he’s ready to take the step, I’m good with that too. I just don’t see a reason to keep him up and play if he doesn’t show he’s ready for it. And if he does show he is, but wanes later in the year, I’d send him down to get his groove back.

While there’s no one way to go about it, I am MUCH more confident with new management’s ability to develop our prospects, whatever it is. They’ve made major changes in how to develop players and have enough competent people in place to make an informed decision and not just hope for the best.

 

[Runner77]

I’m definitely wary of bringing up any prospect too soon. Since the 90’s Redwings leaving prospects to develop in the AHL until they forced their way into the NHL lineup I’ve been a huge believer giving prospects plenty of time to develop at their pace. Looking at every successful prospect we’ve had, they all had extra time in development leagues before joining the Habs main club. Whether it was in Europe, CHL, or AHL, the best players we’ve had for decades all took longer to come up before they succeeded. By contrast, every “bust” we’ve had from Latendresse, to Chucky, KK etc. were all rushed into the NHL too quickly.

Slafkovsky is the first 1st we’ve had in decades but he isn’t a generational talent. So if he’s ready and can dominate and not have his confidence crushed, I’d love to see that. If he needs some games in Laval to acclimate and gain confidence until he’s ready to take the step, I’m good with that too. I just don’t see a reason to keep him up and play if he doesn’t show he’s ready for it. And if he does show he is, but wanes later in the year, I’d send him down to get his groove back.

While there’s no one way to go about it, I am MUCH more confident with new management’s ability to develop our prospects, whatever it is. They’ve made major changes in how to develop players and have enough competent people in place to make an informed decision and not just hope for the best.

True that Slaf is not generational but he is a physical specimen who has played against men. That plus his maturity level, living alone and looking after himself since the age of 14, all point to someone who is not daunted by challenges. Hence, he may be closer to the Show on account of it all.

But, that’s all we’ve got for now — speculation.

These threads won’t fill themselves, you know.

 

[CHfan1]

I’m definitely wary of bringing up any prospect too soon. Since the 90’s Redwings leaving prospects to develop in the AHL until they forced their way into the NHL lineup I’ve been a huge believer giving prospects plenty of time to develop at their pace. Looking at every successful prospect we’ve had, they all had extra time in development leagues before joining the Habs main club. Whether it was in Europe, CHL, or AHL, the best players we’ve had for decades all took longer to come up before they succeeded. By contrast, every “bust” we’ve had from Latendresse, to Chucky, KK etc. were all rushed into the NHL too quickly.

Slafkovsky is the first 1st we’ve had in decades but he isn’t a generational talent. So if he’s ready and can dominate and not have his confidence crushed, I’d love to see that. If he needs some games in Laval to acclimate and gain confidence until he’s ready to take the step, I’m good with that too. I just don’t see a reason to keep him up and play if he doesn’t show he’s ready for it. And if he does show he is, but wanes later in the year, I’d send him down to get his groove back.

While there’s no one way to go about it, I am MUCH more confident with new management’s ability to develop our prospects, whatever it is. They’ve made major changes in how to develop players and have enough competent people in place to make an informed decision and not just hope for the best.

We should all be more confident with Hughes and MSL at the wheel.

So happy we’re past this stage of developing prospects (note where Caufield is in the line-up):

 

[Sterling Archer]

We should all be more confident with Hughes and MSL at the wheel.

So happy we’re past this stage of developing prospects (note where Caufield is in the line-up):

Brutal. Lol

 

[Runner77]

Brutal. Lol

That’s going to be @BLONG7 approved.

 

[Sorinth]

I’m definitely wary of bringing up any prospect too soon. Since the 90’s Redwings leaving prospects to develop in the AHL until they forced their way into the NHL lineup I’ve been a huge believer giving prospects plenty of time to develop at their pace. Looking at every successful prospect we’ve had, they all had extra time in development leagues before joining the Habs main club. Whether it was in Europe, CHL, or AHL, the best players we’ve had for decades all took longer to come up before they succeeded. By contrast, every “bust” we’ve had from Latendresse, to Chucky, KK etc. were all rushed into the NHL too quickly.

Slafkovsky is the first 1st we’ve had in decades but he isn’t a generational talent. So if he’s ready and can dominate and not have his confidence crushed, I’d love to see that. If he needs some games in Laval to acclimate and gain confidence until he’s ready to take the step, I’m good with that too. I just don’t see a reason to keep him up and play if he doesn’t show he’s ready for it. And if he does show he is, but wanes later in the year, I’d send him down to get his groove back.

While there’s no one way to go about it, I am MUCH more confident with new management’s ability to develop our prospects, whatever it is. They’ve made major changes in how to develop players and have enough competent people in place to make an informed decision and not just hope for the best.

Detroit wasn't making top picks during that time so I'm not sure it's a good comparison. The only top pick they had in the 90s was Primeau at 3rd overall and he was in the NHL the next year. It's not hard to keep your kids in the AHL when they are late 1st or later. And even then it's more myth then anything, Zetterberg/Datsyuk never played a game in the AHL. And many other non-stars had few if any games in the AHL, Jiri FIsher went from the CHL to the NHL and playing 52 NHL games and 7 AHL games after turning pro, Dandenault played 4 AHL games after turning pro with the rest being NHL games. Detroit didn't really hold back prospects as part of some development plan they simply were a good team which made it harder for young guys to crack the lineup but those that were good enough skipped the AHL and played in the NHL right away.

If KK and Chucky were rushed to the NHL how come they both had very strong rookie years? In both cases they were good enough to play in the NHL at 18, the problem was there was no development plan in place and we basically never expanded their role/responsibilities because of coaches who cared more about squeezing out wins then they did development.

With Latendresse it was a similar story but he also suffered from the team/fans wanting him to play a certain way because of his size. There's a lesson to learn with him (And others) that is applicable to Slaf and Dach and it's that just because they are big guys doesn't mean they need/should play a PWF style game. Let these guys play the style of game that they are comfortable with and don't ask them to play like your ideal PWF just because they have size.

 

[salbutera]

Detroit wasn't making top picks during that time so I'm not sure it's a good comparison. The only top pick they had in the 90s was Primeau at 3rd overall and he was in the NHL the next year. It's not hard to keep your kids in the AHL when they are late 1st or later. And even then it's more myth then anything, Zetterberg/Datsyuk never played a game in the AHL. And many other non-stars had few if any games in the AHL, Jiri FIsher went from the CHL to the NHL and playing 52 NHL games and 7 AHL games after turning pro, Dandenault played 4 AHL games after turning pro with the rest being NHL games. Detroit didn't really hold back prospects as part of some development plan they simply were a good team which made it harder for young guys to crack the lineup but those that were good enough skipped the AHL and played in the NHL right away.

If KK and Chucky were rushed to the NHL how come they both had very strong rookie years? In both cases they were good enough to play in the NHL at 18, the problem was there was no development plan in place and we basically never expanded their role/responsibilities because of coaches who cared more about squeezing out wins then they did development.

With Latendresse it was a similar story but he also suffered from the team/fans wanting him to play a certain way because of his size. There's a lesson to learn with him (And others) that is applicable to Slaf and Dach and it's that just because they are big guys doesn't mean they need/should play a PWF style game. Let these guys play the style of game that they are comfortable with and don't ask them to play like your ideal PWF just because they have size.

Why is it always lack of development plan or coaches? How about the league adjusted to KK & Galchenyuk by season 2, and the players were simply incapable of tweaking their game and re-adjust?

 

[BaseballCoach]

I’m definitely wary of bringing up any prospect too soon. Since the 90’s Redwings leaving prospects to develop in the AHL until they forced their way into the NHL lineup .....

Stop right there.

Did the 1996-2016 Red Wings ever leave a 1OA in the minors? No, they did not. Do you know why?

Here is why. From 1992 to 2016, they never once drafted in the top 15. So quite understandably, their later picks could almost never immediately dislodge their many ultra-solid NHL players. Of course they made the NHL team only when they were good enough, like anywhere else, exceot that being good enough was much harder for the two reasons I cite.

No comparison to Habs' situation.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Curiously, Slaf couldn’t get by on neither his skills nor his physical attributes in Liiga or the Liiga playoffs. This is a major red flag all the Sundin/Lindros/Jagr comparisons miss.

The biggest question mark is his vision and playmaking ability. If he has hockey IQ to overcome NHL defences and defenders.

And we won't know until he plays against them.

Or would you rather he spend more years developing bad habits agianst weaker players?

 

[Sorinth]

Why is it always lack of development plan or coaches? How about the league adjusted to KK & Galchenyuk by season 2, and the players were simply incapable of tweaking their game and re-adjust?

Well in Galchenyuk's case in subsequent years every time we used him at center he went ppg or close to it so it's pretty clear that coaching and specifically usage was the issue (And Desharnais was worse defensively).

And in KK's case I someone question the logic that the league would even try to adjust to him given that he was a 30 point guy playing on the 3rd line of a bad team. Pretty sure players would be focusing on adjusting to the actual star players. And in any case he also showed that he could be productive in the playoffs which is about the only situation where a team would actually care about adjusting to a guy on a team's third line. Not too mention his ppg increased in Carolina.

 

[salbutera]

Well in Galchenyuk's case in subsequent years every time we used him at center he went ppg or close to it so it's pretty clear that coaching and specifically usage was the issue (And Desharnais was worse defensively).

And in KK's case I someone question the logic that the league would even try to adjust to him given that he was a 30 point guy playing on the 3rd line of a bad team. Pretty sure players would be focusing on adjusting to the actual star players. And in any case he also showed that he could be productive in the playoffs which is about the only situation where a team would actually care about adjusting to a guy on a team's third line. Not too mention his ppg increased in Carolina.

It’s not players adjusting, the main purpose of pro scouts is for them to provide reports to coaches of intel & strategies to combat opposing player trends / potential weaknesses

That’s why the dreaded sophomore slump happens so often. Teams adjust to newbie players

 

[Sorinth]

It’s not players adjusting, the main purpose of pro scouts is for them to provide reports to coaches of intel & strategies to combat opposing player trends / potential weaknesses

That’s why the dreaded sophomore slump happens so often. Teams adjust to newbie players

If you're looking for strategies to combat opposing players you are going to focus on the top players not the 3rd/4th liners. And in the playoffs where it actually makes sense to look at the depth players Kotkaniemi was great so clearly it wasn't a case of opposing teams figuring out the player.

 

[Kennerback]

Galchenyuk was a Center who at his peak could get 50 points. And would do 20 to 30 goals a season depending on his puck luck. He was not a great 2 way Center because of stamina/pace issues. His peak years had a short shelf life because of the same stamina/pace issues. I think that’s who he was and I don’t think a better development would have been able to overcome his physical limitations.

It was obvious from day 1 that KK was not an offensive juggernaut. He was less offensively inclined than Galchenyuk but better defensively. I was hoping that he could peak near Galchenyuk’s stats max but it would take longer. I still don’t believe he’s completely exhausted his upside.

We’ve had a dream for 30 years of a big #1 Center in Mtl. We hoped Galchenyuk or KK could trend that way, but ultimately we bet on the wrong horses. No amount of development could have made Sundin or Getzlaf out of them.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

Me every time I check this thread for actual news on Slaf

 

[Runner77]

Anything new on Slaf?

 

[WeThreeKings]

Anything new on Slaf?

Let me tell you about his Liiga production!

 

[alko]

When will the rookie camp begin?

 

[ReHabs]

Let me tell you about his Liiga production!

There isn’t much to talk about

 

[Justsayin]

Let me tell you about his Liiga production!

There isn’t much to talk about

uh oh.