2021 Roster Thread XIX - Who's In Net

[The Madrigal]

Just like I said yesterday

Provorov - Jones
Sanheim - Larsson
York - Braun
Morin

 

[Tripod]

The Kings just stole Arvidsson from Nashville. Not that we needed another winger or more salary but hey Chuck perhaps you could do your f***ing job and start making some moves to improve this team.

Just remember, Nashville was looking to move him because of the ED. They can now protect 4+4....or even 3+5 and not lose Arvid for nothing(based on what Preds fans are saying)

 

[FLYguy3911]

Better than this?

Provorov - T. Myers
Sanheim - Gudas
Ghost - P. Myers
Morin / Hagg

 

[FlyerNutter]

Count me as excited to be a capped out slightly above average team.

Minnesota Wild Special.

 

[The Madrigal]

Just remember, Nashville was looking to move him because of the ED. They can now protect 4+4....or even 3+5 and not lose Arvid for nothing(based on what Preds fans are saying)

I get that there were other factors involved and his production went backwards the last two years. He is a 28 year old with two 30 goal seasons and another 29 goal season though. That's a small price to pay for the Kings for that type of player. Even if he just consistently give them 20-25 goals I'm sure they would be perfectly fine with parting with a 2nd and future 3rd for someone like that.

 

[deadhead]

How can Makar be their best defensemen? He’s not the correct mold. He’s a smol boy who scores…

Unlike another smol boy defenseman.

 

[Tripod]

I get that there were other factors involved and his production went backwards the last two years. He is a 28 year old with two 30 goal seasons and another 29 goal season though. That's a small price to pay for the Kings for that type of player. Even if he just consistently give them 20-25 goals I'm sure they would be perfectly fine with parting with a 2nd and future 3rd for someone like that.

agreed.

He was a steal on a contract before. If he is a 40ish point guy, it's still fair. All I was saying was that for Nashville, they moved him for ED reasons.

But it is funny:

40 pts at $4.25 for a 2nd+3rd is a steal
60 pts at $7 is a "cap dump" that we would have to add to

 

[mize370]

The Kings just stole Arvidsson from Nashville. Not that we needed another winger or more salary but hey Chuck perhaps you could do your f***ing job and start making some moves to improve this team.

i was told no moves until the expansion draft lol like i said what have you done to improve the team today chuck?

 

[deadhead]

agreed.

He was a steal on a contract before. If he is a 40ish point guy, it's still fair. All I was saying was that for Nashville, they moved him for ED reasons.

But it is funny:

40 pts at $4.25 for a 2nd+3rd is a steal
60 pts at $7 is a "cap dump" that we would have to add to

Have to factor in age, defense and STs.

Discount for over 30, risk of underperforming increases.

Bonus for 1st team PP (which is why I only look at ES points, PP points are a product of skill and usage, so look at PP time and PP/60) production, bonus for exceptional PP production (i.e. anyone can get 10-15 points just by playing PP, top guys get 20-30)
Bonus for 1st pair PK (PK is mirror image of PP).

So rough model, $1M for 10 ES points, $1M for PP, $1M for extra PP production (20+ points), $1m for PK 1st pair/top guy, $1-2M for defense above average (subtract $1M for defense below average).

 

[The Madrigal]

agreed.

He was a steal on a contract before. If he is a 40ish point guy, it's still fair. All I was saying was that for Nashville, they moved him for ED reasons.

But it is funny:

40 pts at $4.25 for a 2nd+3rd is a steal
60 pts at $7 is a "cap dump" that we would have to add to

I don't think it's funny at all. There is a significant difference between a cap hit of 4.5 million and 7 million, that's why. Also the fact that one guy is 28 and the other 32. There is probably an expectation that Arvidsson still has prime years left where as JVR could see a steep decline at any point over the remaining three years of term he has left.

Also, I get why Nashville made the move and apparently Arvidsson and Hynes didn't see eye to eye. Either way, LA might have gotten a 28 year old 25-30 goal scorer for pennies on the dollar at a very manageable cap hit. So for them it's a good deal with the potential to be a great deal if he returns to his form from 2016-2019.

 

[ponder719]

Can someone splain to me how I can be more smarter about hockey and shit?

You just aren't Authentic enough, Cap.

 

[CapnZin]

I think you're taking yourself too seriously and aren't as smart as you think you are.

What does that have anything to do with what I just said? You’re part of the group that’s saying let’s have an informed discussion. When we post something that is informed (doesn’t even have to be right as we cannot predict the future) the responses are always “Oh ok we must be dumb”, “Echo chamber”, “I’m sure the GM is just dumb then”. It’s quite insufferable.
Most people here think that the cost to acquire some of these players creates a worse opportunity cost down the line due to contracts, assets given up, or assets missed out on. All of this is a slippery slope and we’d be kidding ourselves to say Jones isn’t good, but the opportunity cost to acquire him and what his usage would be isn’t beneficial. Then again I assume I’m gonna hear echo chamber, I’m just dumb, or you’re not as smart as you think you are 1,000,000 more times.

 

[Prongo]

Well if the reports were correct and the flyers preferred:

1)Jones
2)Ellis
3)Hamilton

We sure as hell should all hope Jones goes to Chicago or Colorado because that trade almost surely means Nashville is protecting Ellis with 4+4+1.

 

[Striiker]

What does that have anything to do with what I just said? You’re part of the group that’s saying let’s have an informed discussion. When we post something that is informed (doesn’t even have to be right as we cannot predict the future) the responses are always “Oh ok we must be dumb”, “Echo chamber”, “I’m sure the GM is just dumb then”. It’s quite insufferable.
Most people here think that the cost to acquire some of these players creates a worse opportunity cost down the line due to contracts, assets given up, or assets missed out on. All of this is a slippery slope and we’d be kidding ourselves to say Jones isn’t good, but the opportunity cost to acquire him and what his usage would be isn’t beneficial. Then again I assume I’m gonna hear echo chamber, I’m just dumb, or you’re not as smart as you think you are 1,000,000 more times.

Which we know isn't what they want. It's just a phrase used to play the victim and act like they're being unfairly criticized.

 

[GKJ]

Well if the reports were correct and the flyers preferred:

1)Jones
2)Ellis
3)Hamilton

We sure as hell should all hope Jones goes to Chicago or Colorado because that trade almost surely means Nashville is protecting Ellis with 4+4+1.

Rumors are they made the Arvidsson trade so they could protect Luke Kunin

 

[deadhead]

People are assuming the worst on insufficient information.

Basically, some simply don't like Fletcher on the basis of heavily biased judgements (grossly overweighting a trivial addition like Stewart, or minor trades for Thompson and Grant, disliking the Braun deal despite his solid play and low cost extension, discounting the Niskanen trade).

Fact is, we don't know what Fletcher will do, he's been honest about his mistakes in Minnesota, and said he wouldn't make a trade like the Leddy deal again. Despite "win now" pressure he has yet to trade a 1st rd pick or top prospect for a veteran.

I think this offseason will be driven less by "win now" than two plus years of watching the current personnel, taking into account COVID, and a sense of how the roster needs to be reshaped.

I do think Fletcher will feel a need to break up the "comfortable clubhouse" that has pervaded the last decade, when you look at the Habs playing with a sense of urgency, you wonder if the Flyers have been too loyal to their players, giving them a false sense of security. While many blame AV, I'd note that some issues go back to Hakstol, slow starts, failure to play consistent two way hockey, carelessness with the puck, reluctance to go into corners and the blue paint, reflecting a lack of focus and urgency more than scheme.

 

[TB87]

What does that have anything to do with what I just said? You’re part of the group that’s saying let’s have an informed discussion. When we post something that is informed (doesn’t even have to be right as we cannot predict the future) the responses are always “Oh ok we must be dumb”, “Echo chamber”, “I’m sure the GM is just dumb then”. It’s quite insufferable.
Most people here think that the cost to acquire some of these players creates a worse opportunity cost down the line due to contracts, assets given up, or assets missed out on. All of this is a slippery slope and we’d be kidding ourselves to say Jones isn’t good, but the opportunity cost to acquire him and what his usage would be isn’t beneficial. Then again I assume I’m gonna hear echo chamber, I’m just dumb, or you’re not as smart as you think you are 1,000,000 more times.

Great Post. For real. It’s beyond annoying.

 

[wankstifier]

Rumors are they made the Arvidsson trade so they could protect Luke Kunin

That's hilarious

 

[Starat327]

Can confirm. My gf is vegetarian but when the bacon comes out it's game over.

Heh.

 

[Striiker]

That's hilarious

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Can someone splain to me how I can be more smarter about hockey and shit?

be a hockey shill..

youll be sooo smert.

 

[Prongo]

So seeing a few reports that trade talk is picking up….. which means we will see one more trade today between two scrubs and then silence for the next week until Eichel is traded right after the cup final.

 

[phil162888]

So seeing a few reports that trade talk is picking up….. which means we will see one more trade today between two scrubs and then silence for the next week until Eichel is traded right after the cup final.

TBH were probably causing some of the delays because were probably in on almost all major trade talk.... Eichel, Jones, Nashville Dmen, Dumba guaranteed Fletch is in on all these players but he can only do 1 trade maybe 2 if he can get rid of JVR/Jake and Ghost. Definitely a scary/exciting time.... scary in the sense we hear rumours of Farabee (which is insane) or Hart. Fletcher can't be that stupid but when your desperate (like ownership seems to be ) you never know.

 

[Striiker]

Meltzer continues to ram his ignorance down our throats

As with most of the roster, however, Provorov's 2020-21 season did not match the standards of consistency he set the prior year (or, for that matter, in 2017-18). How much of it had to do with Provorov playing with a revolving door of defense partners in 2020-21 following the early retirement of Matt Niskanen and how much of it was the player himself is tough to fully parse.
...
What is fair to say that Provorov entered the 2020-21 season with very lofty expectations on his shoulders. The Flyers No. 1 defenseman did not have a poor season but he also did not regularly elevate his game to an elite or near-elite level on either side of the puck.
...
Entering the 2021 offseason, one of the Flyers' primary goals is to find a right-side partner for Provorov on the team's top defensive pairing. The inability to fill void left by Niskanen's departure -- in terms of chemistry with Provorov, ice-time and matchup slotting of all three defense pairings, and a steadying presence in times of adversity -- was one of the factors that negatively impacted the club in 2020-21.

This past season, Sanheim had a roller coaster campaign. The positive is that he actually did fine from an analytics standpoint: 54.1 percent Corsi, 51.5 percent Fenwick Close, positive differential in expected goals despite a minus-22 traditional plus-minus rating. He was particularly effective in joining the play up-ice and prolonging puck possession for Philadelphia.
...
The negative: Sanheim and Phil Myers, both as a pairing and individually, struggled mightily at times during the season especially during the team's fateful swoon in March. Sanheim struggled at times with gap management, net-front containment, turnovers under forechecking pressure and unforced turnovers (40 charged giveaways). He took on a penalty killing role in 2019-20 for the first time in his career and showed promise, but was not as effective this year amid teamwide PK struggles.
...
With Sanheim, much of it boils down to a matter of perspective. If someone is looking for him to be a punishing physical presence because he is 6-foot-4 and 200-plus pounds, disappointment is likely. Conversely, if one is looking for a defenseman with the coveted combination of size, mobility and ability to help move the puck up the ice, Sanheim is an above-average second pair NHL defenseman.
...
It is not impossible that Sanheim (or Myers) could be made available under certain trade scenarios this offseason. However, he is not a player whom the Flyers will actively seek to trade despite his arbitration-eligible restricted free agent status. More likely, the team and the Sanheim camp will seek to strike a new bridge deal and he will remain part of the top-three or top-four in ice time among the team's defense corps.

Offseason Inventory: The Young Core

It's hard to tell if he's just being a mouthpiece or if he's dumb enough to really think like this. Based on his previous "Hagg > Ghost offensively" comment, it might be the latter. Regardless, the guy is as lazy and cliché with his evaluations as they come. It's disgusting that he gets paid to write about this team and poison the minds of casual fans who don't know any better.

 

[phil162888]

TBH were probably causing some of the delays because were probably in on almost all major trade talk.... Eichel, Jones, Nashville Dmen, Dumba guaranteed Fletch is in on all these players but he can only do 1 trade maybe 2 if he can get rid of JVR/Jake and Ghost. Definitely a scary/exciting time.... scary in the sense we hear rumours of Farabee (which is insane) or Hart. Fletcher can't be that stupid but when your desperate (like ownership seems to be ) you never know.

He also needs to figure out Hart, Sanheim and Nolan's new contracts (if their not traded)