Speculation: 2021-22 LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread Part VI

[Statto]

I am appreciating the heel turn from RJ though. Nice plot twist.

It’s the biggest heel turn since Hogan joined the Outsiders and formed the NWO.

 

[Statto]

Turcotte should only get a cup of coffee in the nhl and that’s it. He can’t seem to stay healthy more than 2 months in the AHL. And his game isn’t reliant on shiftiness and avoiding physical play. He needs to get bigger.

I would like to see Kaliyev with Kopitar and Vilardi with Iaffalo and Danault to cover his defensive deficiencies.

Nothing would make me happier than seeing Vilardi graduate to the top line. However, he’s not sending a message that he belongs in the NHL. He’s been anything but dominant in the AHL and his body language says he is pouting although I could easy be wrong on that (hope I am). If he wants a shot on Kopi’s wing he has to do far more to earn it because right now I wouldn’t be thinking of a recall.

 

[Kudelski37]

Kaliyev and Vilardi are too slow to play with Kopitar. In his old age, Kopitar needs two speedy wingers. Kempe is one speedy winger. Turcotte could be a second.

 

[bland]

Kaliyev and Vilardi are too slow to play with Kopitar. In his old age, Kopitar needs two speedy wingers. Kempe is one speedy winger. Turcotte could be a second.

You aren't developing Kaliyev and Vilardi to play with Kopitar. You are developing them to play first line responsibilities.

Kopitar is not part of the team's future. It is a mistake to base any prospect-related decisions on somebody who no longer impacts the team's best chance at success.

This line of thinking, what's best for Anze, how many points out of a wildcard spot, strength of remaining schedule, its all poisonous to what MUST be the only real focus: transitioning to the next stage of prospect development. That is the only path to success here.

 

[Kudelski37]

You aren't developing Kaliyev and Vilardi to play with Kopitar. You are developing them to play first line responsibilities.

Kopitar is not part of the team's future. It is a mistake to base any prospect-related decisions on somebody who no longer impacts the team's best chance at success.

This line of thinking, what's best for Anze, how many points out of a wildcard spot, strength of remaining schedule, its all poisonous to what MUST be the only real focus: transitioning to the next stage of prospect development. That is the only path to success here.

My position is playing slow prospects with Kopitar is not good for the prospects. There is a knock on effect where if the prospects struggle, the team will struggle. The slow prospects can learn just as well playing with the faster vets. This will help the team which could lead to a playoff spot. Prospect development and making the playoffs aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[LAKings88]

You aren't developing Kaliyev and Vilardi to play with Kopitar. You are developing them to play first line responsibilities.

Kopitar is not part of the team's future. It is a mistake to base any prospect-related decisions on somebody who no longer impacts the team's best chance at success.

This line of thinking, what's best for Anze, how many points out of a wildcard spot, strength of remaining schedule, its all poisonous to what MUST be the only real focus: transitioning to the next stage of prospect development. That is the only path to success here.

Just legit curious, do you advocate trading Kopi, Doughty, and Quick? Would you prefer an Ottawa style rebuild?

 

[kilowatt]

My position is playing slow prospects with Kopitar is not good for the prospects. There is a knock on effect where if the prospects struggle, the team will struggle. The slow prospects can learn just as well playing with the faster vets. This will help the team which could lead to a playoff spot. Prospect development and making the playoffs aren't mutually exclusive.

I don't think you can go wrong playing Vilardi and Kaliyev with Kopitar/Kempe or Danault/Iafallo. With Byfield and Turcotte coming, perhaps we should move Kupari to wing instead?

 

[Schmooley]

Just legit curious, do you advocate trading Kopi, Doughty, and Quick? Would you prefer an Ottawa style rebuild?

I cant speak for Bland but any rebuild here wouldnt be like Ottawa. The Kings bring in players and spend cap which is something Ottawa has refused to do. Not surrounding your young players with veteran talent can be just as harmful as not giving them proper opportunity.
If someone makes a good offer for any of Kopitar Doughty or Quick you would be foolish not to listen but that doesnt mean you actively have to try to move them. Its just time to reduce their role is the main point I think most are making.
If Calgary loses Gaudreau and cant bring in talent maybe they offer a first, Wolf + for Kopitar. If Toronto loses early again maybe they offer Marner for Doughty +.
Youd have to at least think about dealing them if the opportunity presents itself.

 

[bland]

My position is playing slow prospects with Kopitar is not good for the prospects. There is a knock on effect where if the prospects struggle, the team will struggle. The slow prospects can learn just as well playing with the faster vets. This will help the team which could lead to a playoff spot. Prospect development and making the playoffs aren't mutually exclusive.

In this case, yes, they are. They are failing at both.

I don't think a whole lot of fans realize just how poorly of a job the Kings are doing with their kids. Its an out of sight out of mind acceptance that they will be fine waiting for their spots and it will all work out.

It isn't happening that way. The entire mindset and approach needs to be changed to prioritizing youth development. I keep reading how Andersson and Vilardi are struggling so they need to be sat or sent down. Why? Because they are hurting the Kings chances of making the playoffs? They are SUPPOSED to be struggling right now as kids find their way. Its perfectly fine to take time to gain confidence and experience, there are extraordinarily few top prospects that are ready-made for top 6 roles.

The Kings have kids like Vilardi and Kaliyev whose only real potential is top be top 6 offensive players. They aren't multifaceted players who can produce in all situations, they need to prioritize developing their high-end skills at the NHL level far more than proving that they won't hurt you in the bottom 6. That means getting good, consistent minutes in offensive situations OVER established vets who will not contribute to the next era of team success.

Make no mistske, this Kings team is a longshot to make the playoffs and even if they eek it out they will go home quickly. This isn't the time to make "hope" the focus, they have the right players itching to go right now.

This isn't the NHL most of us grew up with. Young players are getting more importance than ever before. 2nd contracts are getting more and more outrageous every year - and that is one thing nobody seems to take into consideration. Top picks will be ending their ELCs here without much NHL progress as their contemporaries are already established and setting new contractual standards for players drafted in similar positions. That is going to be a problem here very soon.

 

[bmr]

Whether it's this year or next year, I think Blake is definitely going to need to make a splash and acquire a big impact player via trade. At this point, Chychrun looks like the obvious choice (assuming he's available). That would really turn our D into a monster, especially if we get Edler back at some point.

I don't think anyone thinks the Kings have a legitimate shot at making waves in the playoffs this year. I'm in the camp that believes they will make the playoffs, especially if Quick continues his level. We really need to get some stability on the offensive end - it will be interesting to see a couple players from Ontario get a cup of tea and see how it impacts the big club.

 

[bland]

Just legit curious, do you advocate trading Kopi, Doughty, and Quick? Would you prefer an Ottawa style rebuild?

First, I don't think its helpful to compare a style of rebuild to another teams because there are so many variables in place that there are too many trappings we would get to in discussion that would taint the arguments.

I took a looooooong break from posting on HF and primarily stayed over at LGK so there aren't many old posts I can link to for evidence, but there are plenty of folks still here that were part of those threads that can vouch for, and probably still argue with my points.

I have been firmly and absolutely in the camp that said that the Kings needed to trade Kopitar at the end of 2015 instead of extending him. To be brief, it was for the specific following reasons that in my opinion have been proven true, so I can confidently state them again without having to edit or update them.

The Kings Cup era was done and not coming back. Too many longterm deals leading to a stagnant room, too little cap space, a complete lack of cost-controlled assets coming in to support and supplant the core, and the ongoing loss of key leadership that was not going to be replaced from within.

Those aren't really debatable, they were easy to see coming and unfolded exactly as predicted. What IS debatable and got really heated, even though I am 100% positive that I am right, is that while he is a fine player, Anze Kopitar cannot be your teams leader. He is too passive, too relaxed and frankly too accepting or ambivalent of negative results. He would never be a leader of a winning team. Most likely a teams best player - but never a leader or focal point.

I confidentally stated that the Kings will most likely not make the playoffs again during Kopitar's entire extension contract. I felt that the Kings weren't good enough during the first half of his deal, and he wouldn't be the same player over the second half. Now I was wrong about part of that, he is still producing well even if his 200 foot game has fallen off.

I felt that his extension was wasted money that wouldn't be maximized and that it guaranteed a long period of stagnant mediocrity that would be best ignored by trading him and jump starting the rebuild by getting several strong assets for what was a completely empty pool.

Still feel that it was the best course, and I believe time has proven it so because the team hasn't benefited at all from that extension.

 

[DoktorJeep]

I think the issue with Kopitar, Doughty, Brown and Quick was they gave no home town discount to the Kings. The Bruins have been to as many cup finals as the Kings in the most recent era and have been more consistently successful even if they have one less cup win. Their best players took less to stay, leaving more for depth, and they live in a high tax state. If the Kings core had each taken a little less for a shorter time, we’d have a completely different history since 2012.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

First, I don't think its helpful to compare a style of rebuild to another teams because there are so many variables in place that there are too many trappings we would get to in discussion that would taint the arguments.

I took a looooooong break from posting on HF and primarily stayed over at LGK so there aren't many old posts I can link to for evidence, but there are plenty of folks still here that were part of those threads that can vouch for, and probably still argue with my points.

I have been firmly and absolutely in the camp that said that the Kings needed to trade Kopitar at the end of 2015 instead of extending him. To be brief, it was for the specific following reasons that in my opinion have been proven true, so I can confidently state them again without having to edit or update them.

The Kings Cup era was done and not coming back. Too many longterm deals leading to a stagnant room, too little cap space, a complete lack of cost-controlled assets coming in to support and supplant the core, and the ongoing loss of key leadership that was not going to be replaced from within.

Those aren't really debatable, they were easy to see coming and unfolded exactly as predicted. What IS debatable and got really heated, even though I am 100% positive that I am right, is that while he is a fine player, Anze Kopitar cannot be your teams leader. He is too passive, too relaxed and frankly too accepting or ambivalent of negative results. He would never be a leader of a winning team. Most likely a teams best player - but never a leader or focal point.

I confidentally stated that the Kings will most likely not make the playoffs again during Kopitar's entire extension contract. I felt that the Kings weren't good enough during the first half of his deal, and he wouldn't be the same player over the second half. Now I was wrong about part of that, he is still producing well even if his 200 foot game has fallen off.

I felt that his extension was wasted money that wouldn't be maximized and that it guaranteed a long period of stagnant mediocrity that would be best ignored by trading him and jump starting the rebuild by getting several strong assets for what was a completely empty pool.

Still feel that it was the best course, and I believe time has proven it so because the team hasn't benefited at all from that extension.

Curious as to where you get the bolded from, any former players come out with that, anything other than what you feel?

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I think the issue with Kopitar, Doughty, Brown and Quick was they gave no home town discount to the Kings. The Bruins have been to as many cup finals as the Kings in the most recent era and have been more consistently successful even if they have one less cup win. Their best players took less to stay, leaving more for depth, and they live in a high tax state. If the Kings core had each taken a little less for a shorter time, we’d have a completely different history since 2012.

Different circumstances, Bergeron signed in 2013, at 6.875 for 8 years, and took up 10% of the cap.

Kopitar signed in 2016 for 10M with is/was 14% of the cap, but was coming off of a team friendly 6.8M, the market changed drastically since 2013, Bergergon signed long term for what was market value, no home discount there....

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I think the issue with Kopitar, Doughty, Brown and Quick was they gave no home town discount to the Kings. The Bruins have been to as many cup finals as the Kings in the most recent era and have been more consistently successful even if they have one less cup win. Their best players took less to stay, leaving more for depth, and they live in a high tax state. If the Kings core had each taken a little less for a shorter time, we’d have a completely different history since 2012.

Brown is at 5.85, I don't know how you can't call that a home town discount,
Quick, same thing,

Doughty and Kopitar you can argue did not, absolutely, but both are 100% market value, regardless if you think they are worth it or not.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Different circumstances, Bergeron signed in 2013, at 6.875 for 8 years, and took up 10% of the cap.

Kopitar signed in 2016 for 10M with is/was 14% of the cap, but was coming off of a team friendly 6.8M, the market changed drastically since 2013, Bergergon signed long term for what was market value, no home discount there....

I’m sure Pat Brisson would agree with you whole heartedly.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Brown is at 5.85, I don't know how you can't call that a home town discount,
Quick, same thing,

Doughty and Kopitar you can argue did not, absolutely, but both are 100% market value, regardless if you think they are worth it or not.

It’s about culture, where the group sacrifices for one another. Not each man for himself and see you at volleyball practice.

 

[bland]

Curious as to where you get the bolded from, any former players come out with that, anything other than what you feel?

Results and experience.

Folks have tried to dispute that opinion over the years, but I have never heard any convincing argument or seen anything to change my mind.

I think your #1c must be fully attack minded, with it being a huge bonus if he is competent in his own zone.

As far as what players say, lets go straight to the horses mouth:

"When everyone is good, no one has to be great"
- A. Kopitar

Now people try to argue with that as though it was just a throw away platitude, but I think history has shown that to be pretty much his ethos. No matter the circumstances, you get exactly the same thing from Kopitar. Hell, even his career playoff PPG is damn near that of his regular season figures.

Come hell or high water, good times or bad, you can count on getting the same from Kopitar.

The problem is that the opposite is equally true: when everyone ISN'T good, somebody has to be great. When the Kings badly needed more, somebody to step up and pull the team further than it should go, Kopitar has never been that man. He just doesn't lead from the front. He is the best player, but from the side, and his teams desperately need a real leader.

He assumes pessimistic ice positions instead of attacking. Far too often in his career he has settled for a goal or two in a 30 game span. He accepts those things instead of being the guy to make a mediocre team better thsn it should be.

And that is my only "complaint" about him. His teams will always need an emotional leader capable of changing the tempo/pace/tone when needed, not always staying on the same predictible course.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

It’s about culture, where the group sacrifices for one another. Not each man for himself and see you at volleyball practice.

Oh f*** off with this culture....first it was home team discount.....which was proven to be bullshit.....now it's culture where everyone sacrifices.....

Can you pick one stance and stick with it?

 

[DoktorJeep]

Oh f*** off with this culture....first it was home team discount.....which was proven to be bullshit.....now it's culture where everyone sacrifices.....

Can you pick one stance and stick with it?

I can’t help your confusion or refuge into vulgarity.

 

[tny760]

all i really needed to see was that (i think) dallas game where one of our guys was injured out of the game and a minute later you see kopi joking around with one of their guys in front of their goalie, to tell me what i needed to know about his leadership

i don't expect him to fight but you sure as shit can do without being friendly right then. great player, awesome person off the ice, not the leader that this team needs on it

 

[LAKings88]

Results and experience.

Folks have tried to dispute that opinion over the years, but I have never heard any convincing argument or seen anything to change my mind.

I think your #1c must be fully attack minded, with it being a huge bonus if he is competent in his own zone.

As far as what players say, lets go straight to the horses mouth:

"When everyone is good, no one has to be great"
- A. Kopitar

Now people try to argue with that as though it was just a throw away platitude, but I think history has shown that to be pretty much his ethos. No matter the circumstances, you get exactly the same thing from Kopitar. Hell, even his career playoff PPG is damn near that of his regular season figures.

Come hell or high water, good times or bad, you can count on getting the same from Kopitar.

The problem is that the opposite is equally true: when everyone ISN'T good, somebody has to be great. When the Kings badly needed more, somebody to step up and pull the team further than it should go, Kopitar has never been that man. He just doesn't lead from the front. He is the best player, but from the side, and his teams desperately need a real leader.

He assumes pessimistic ice positions instead of attacking. Far too often in his career he has settled for a goal or two in a 30 game span. He accepts those things instead of being the guy to make a mediocre team better thsn it should be.

And that is my only "complaint" about him. His teams will always need an emotional leader capable of changing the tempo/pace/tone when needed, not always staying on the same predictible course.

I call it killer instinct. Kopi is phenomenal. He is a 200 foot player who is also capable of solid numbers but he doesn’t seem to be the nail in the coffin or get behind me guy as much as I’d like him to be. I have no question that he is a fully capable captain in day to day life and taking care of people.

Not to say he never takes over a game but I think I see your point. I do think it is a balance tho. For instance Schliefle(sp) would be the opposite side of the coin to Kopi. Offense without the defense. I still say Kopi is a proven winner and hockey is a team sport. So much has to come together. The right mix and culture. Kopi’s slumps are frustrating but on the whole I don’t think the last few years are all his fault.

 

[KINGS17]

First, I don't think its helpful to compare a style of rebuild to another teams because there are so many variables in place that there are too many trappings we would get to in discussion that would taint the arguments.

I took a looooooong break from posting on HF and primarily stayed over at LGK so there aren't many old posts I can link to for evidence, but there are plenty of folks still here that were part of those threads that can vouch for, and probably still argue with my points.

I have been firmly and absolutely in the camp that said that the Kings needed to trade Kopitar at the end of 2015 instead of extending him. To be brief, it was for the specific following reasons that in my opinion have been proven true, so I can confidently state them again without having to edit or update them.

The Kings Cup era was done and not coming back. Too many longterm deals leading to a stagnant room, too little cap space, a complete lack of cost-controlled assets coming in to support and supplant the core, and the ongoing loss of key leadership that was not going to be replaced from within.

Those aren't really debatable, they were easy to see coming and unfolded exactly as predicted. What IS debatable and got really heated, even though I am 100% positive that I am right, is that while he is a fine player, Anze Kopitar cannot be your teams leader. He is too passive, too relaxed and frankly too accepting or ambivalent of negative results. He would never be a leader of a winning team. Most likely a teams best player - but never a leader or focal point.

I confidentally stated that the Kings will most likely not make the playoffs again during Kopitar's entire extension contract. I felt that the Kings weren't good enough during the first half of his deal, and he wouldn't be the same player over the second half. Now I was wrong about part of that, he is still producing well even if his 200 foot game has fallen off.

I felt that his extension was wasted money that wouldn't be maximized and that it guaranteed a long period of stagnant mediocrity that would be best ignored by trading him and jump starting the rebuild by getting several strong assets for what was a completely empty pool.

Still feel that it was the best course, and I believe time has proven it so because the team hasn't benefited at all from that extension.

Well, I can't improve on this. I think you are 100% correct.

 

[Bandit]

In this case, yes, they are. They are failing at both.

I don't think a whole lot of fans realize just how poorly of a job the Kings are doing with their kids. Its an out of sight out of mind acceptance that they will be fine waiting for their spots and it will all work out.

It isn't happening that way. The entire mindset and approach needs to be changed to prioritizing youth development. I keep reading how Andersson and Vilardi are struggling so they need to be sat or sent down. Why? Because they are hurting the Kings chances of making the playoffs? They are SUPPOSED to be struggling right now as kids find their way. Its perfectly fine to take time to gain confidence and experience, there are extraordinarily few top prospects that are ready-made for top 6 roles.

The Kings have kids like Vilardi and Kaliyev whose only real potential is top be top 6 offensive players. They aren't multifaceted players who can produce in all situations, they need to prioritize developing their high-end skills at the NHL level far more than proving that they won't hurt you in the bottom 6. That means getting good, consistent minutes in offensive situations OVER established vets who will not contribute to the next era of team success.

Make no mistske, this Kings team is a longshot to make the playoffs and even if they eek it out they will go home quickly. This isn't the time to make "hope" the focus, they have the right players itching to go right now.

This isn't the NHL most of us grew up with. Young players are getting more importance than ever before. 2nd contracts are getting more and more outrageous every year - and that is one thing nobody seems to take into consideration. Top picks will be ending their ELCs here without much NHL progress as their contemporaries are already established and setting new contractual standards for players drafted in similar positions. That is going to be a problem here very soon.

Amazing that a fan posting on an internet message board can demonstrate a greater understanding of the Kings’ situation and needs in a few sentences when Blake and Luc have just shown to have their heads up each other’s asses since day 1.

 

[cyclones22]

The problem is this organization is going to ride or die with Kopitar. Just like what they are doing with Brown. Will they be able to really adjust Kopitar's role over the last few seasons of his contract? Or is it going to be first line or off the team? I'm not about trading him. But Kopi should be playing 19 minutes a game. This franchise hasn't shown the ability to be able to gracefully lessen a vet's role.

Sutter played Kopi the least amount of TOI. Look it up. Every other coach played him more minutes. When the Kings were most successful it's because there was depth that they could rely on. We don't even know if there is depth because nobody's allowed more than a few games sometimes even periods to earn trust.