Speculation: 2021-22 LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread Part VI

[SmytheKing]

East coast has slept through most of Kopi’s career.

That would be true if someone like Couturier or O'Reilly had a bunch of nominations too. No one, on either coast, comes anywhere near Bergeron. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that the only one who does is Kopitar which then continues to make the "East Coast bias" argument weak.

 

[Steve Zissou]

Welp, looking like Saturday will be canceled.

 

[BigKing]

Yet...they both have nearly identical 73-point paces for their career and that's with Getzlaf hot-glued to a 30 goal winger for most of his career with offensive deployment on what everyone else here is calling a better team (certainly better offensively).

How is this place so hung up on Kopitar's demeanor that they're ignorant of the massive player he is?

Thought we were past this but I guess not.

I said Kopitar is the better all-around player. It isn't being ignorant of Kopitar's greatness to think that Getzlaf is a better offensive player. I'm also glad to have Kopitar instead...doesn't matter if you are better offensively if you are watching the game in street clothes because you're hurt again.

The PPG is nearly identical now but that is more a reflection of what is perhaps Kopitar's greatest attribute: durability and consistency. At their peaks, I don't think it is wild to think that Getzlaf was a better offensive player but he has declined as his style of game is going to wear a guy down although he is having quite the bounce back season right now. Regardless, Getzlaf was the guy putting up over a point per game in seven seasons while Kopitar didn't do it until the magical 2018 season. Has a higher playoff point-per-game than Kopitar as well with 45 more games played.

Anyways, I'm not slighting Kopitar if I think Getlzaf is/was a better offensive player. We can argue about deployment and whatnot but all we have is history.

 

[SmytheKing]

I am a big Bergeron fan, and you cannot take away from what he has done based on who is playing with. he still went out and did it, but can you imagine Kopitar with Marchand and Pastrnak?

Patrice is a UFA this summer and I am interested to see what happens with him,

I don't think he'd have triple the amount of Top 5 Selke noms, nor do I think he'd have 3 more of them. He'd probably have more points, but significantly more?

It's all a hypothetical though so you can only go based off of what they do. Bergeron has won about 60% of the faceoffs he's taken and he's taken about 200 more than Kopitar in about 150 fewer games. That's huge and it has nothing to do with linemates. He's also got an advantage on all of the advanced stats too.

Look, I love Anze and all he's done, but Bergeron is a better two way player. Saying Anze is the 3rd or 4th most decorated/accomplished/talented two-way forward in the history of the NHL isn't a knock.

 

[No Name The Nameless]

Your team is only as tough as your captain. Kopitar caressing McDavids breasts right after he boards someone is why the Kings are soft as shit. An enforcer doesn't change that. Taking the C from Kopitar does.

Wayne Gretzky disagrees

 

[Fishhead]

Wayne Gretzky disagrees

I wouldn't call St. Louis or Vegas soft either, particularly Vegas who does a lot of borderline dirty stuff. Both of their captains are Byng winners.

Florida has also been near the top over the last couple years in hits and penalties. Barkov? A Byng winner as well.

 

[YP44]

I don't think he'd have triple the amount of Top 5 Selke noms, nor do I think he'd have 3 more of them. He'd probably have more points, but significantly more?

It's all a hypothetical though so you can only go based off of what they do. Bergeron has won about 60% of the faceoffs he's taken and he's taken about 200 more than Kopitar in about 150 fewer games. That's huge and it has nothing to do with linemates. He's also got an advantage on all of the advanced stats too.

Look, I love Anze and all he's done, but Bergeron is a better two way player. Saying Anze is the 3rd or 4th most decorated/accomplished/talented two-way forward in the history of the NHL isn't a knock.

Oh i agree with you. The two are similar to me, but one big difference has been consistent quality of line mates in Boston.
bergeron 100% deserves all the selke's he has had.
Just fun to speculate.

 

[YP44]

Welp, looking like Saturday will be canceled.

everything is burning to the ground

 

[Steve Zissou]

Never too early to start thinking about next year...?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I agree with a lot of this, but Bergeron is the best two way forward of this generation. He's going to likely have 1k points too (939 right now) and he's got 5 Selke's to go along with being a 10x finalist for it. He's won it more than Kopitar has been a finalist. Call it east coast bias if you like, but no one else comes close to those numbers on any other team...and there's a lot of 'em in the East.

it is east coast bias, massively. Not that I disagree about Bergeron in general, but the disparity between his accolades and Kopitar's can be explained by both market and country of origin.

Plus doesn't hurt having a rotating cadre of superstar over-PPG wingers to pump those numbers up.

 

[Herby]

I think as usual Brown gets underrated for his contributions to the Kings glory years, specifically the teams first run in 2012 when he was a dominant physical force on the entire 200 x 85. Don't let the fact that Brown hung around for to long and is still an NHL player a decade later make anyone minimize his contributions. And as far as leadership, Brown might not be the ra-ra type guy like some others, but there is an element of leading by example and performing on the biggest stage. I wonder how Brown is remembered if it had been him and not Richards who's career collapsed shortly after the 2012 season. Instead we unfortunately have 4-5 years of mostly poor memories to end Brown's run, but don't blame him. Blame Lombardi for his inability to understand how poorly long term contracts usually work out.

BTW, here is a screen shot of Brown before Game 1 vs. NJ. Again, there is an element of leadership that involves doing it by example, what Brown did that spring was exactly that.

Yes, only a 14 game sample. But 14 games against the 1,2,3 seeds in the west. Over a full 82 that is

41G
52A
93 Pts
+76
392 Hits

Producing like that while playing the style he did was leading by example, period.

 

[kingsfan28]

Kopitar is an ALL TIME underrated player and arguably the best two way player of his generation with 2 Selke wins and 2 Stanley Cup wins. One of only 2 players to ever win the Selke and Stanley Cup multiple times and score 1,000 points (Fedorov, who was named one of the top 100 players of all time by the NHL) and one of 3 players to win a Cup, Selke, and Score 1,000 points (Fedorov and Brind'Amour). A point per game player during both Cup runs. If Kopitar didn't pay the Kings tax nightly and played for Washington or Pittsburgh he'd easily have over 1,250 points by now.

Getzlaf is an excellent player, but there's no comparing him to Kopitar. People also compare Kopitar to Toews, Toews couldn't carry Kopitar's jockstrap let alone be considered better than him. People always bring up country of origin like a patronizing concession (greatest Slovenian player of all time hurr durr), no it doesn't matter if Kopitar was born in Jesenice or Toronto, he is a top 100 player of all time.

Until a few year ago , Getzlaf and Perry both had the same rep as playoff chokers. I think they still do! I don't care how many points he's scored, post cup year , he and his team never could get past the next round. Kopitar is the better player, always has been, and has scored in all the biggest games. Remember when his put the nail in the SJ coffin ? Kopitar would have another 200 points if he cheating on defense or had a guy like Kane as a wingman.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I said Kopitar is the better all-around player. It isn't being ignorant of Kopitar's greatness to think that Getzlaf is a better offensive player. I'm also glad to have Kopitar instead...doesn't matter if you are better offensively if you are watching the game in street clothes because you're hurt again.

The PPG is nearly identical now but that is more a reflection of what is perhaps Kopitar's greatest attribute: durability and consistency. At their peaks, I don't think it is wild to think that Getzlaf was a better offensive player but he has declined as his style of game is going to wear a guy down although he is having quite the bounce back season right now. Regardless, Getzlaf was the guy putting up over a point per game in seven seasons while Kopitar didn't do it until the magical 2018 season. Has a higher playoff point-per-game than Kopitar as well with 45 more games played.

Anyways, I'm not slighting Kopitar if I think Getlzaf is/was a better offensive player. We can argue about deployment and whatnot but all we have is history.

Their PPG has almost always been identical and that's obviously independent of injuries and also where is this myth of 'consistent' Getzlaf coming from? The guy had a 50 point season sandwiched between two PPGs.

I"m just saying this thing where Getzlaf is a superior offensive player is not grounded in fact and I know you're not intended to use it to degrade Kopitar, I'm more using it to show how good offensively he is because people don't seem to think so DUE TO his durability and consistency and because we're not (most of us anyway) hanging around with Ducks fans enough to hear about his highs and lows. Believe me, there was plenty of annoyance with him as there is here with Kopi.

 

[Sol]

Wayne Gretzky disagrees

Yes that Ol gretzky. Many of them in the NHL honestly. Not an anomaly at all. Great choice for a rebuttal.

 

[kingsfan28]

it is east coast bias, massively. Not that I disagree about Bergeron in general, but the disparity between his accolades and Kopitar's can be explained by both market and country of origin.

Plus doesn't hurt having a rotating cadre of superstar over-PPG wingers to pump those numbers up.

And the national tv coverage showing your team every week, plus 4 winter classics helps a lot too.

 

[YP44]

Never too early to start thinking about next year...?

The Top 30 Unrestricted Free Agents of 2022
seems like a good place to leave this

 

[ScoreZeGoals]

Getzlaf is a great player, and had a wonderful career. With that said, he can't hold Kopi's jock. Some people around here have completely lost their minds

 

[Johnny Utah]

Manson or Chariot.

 

[FSL KINGS]

Never too early to start thinking about next year...?

Biggest needs, 1st line wing & physical D. Should be plenty of D to choose from. Good chance Blake whiffs on the forward. Should be an easy offseason.

 

[SmytheKing]

it is east coast bias, massively. Not that I disagree about Bergeron in general, but the disparity between his accolades and Kopitar's can be explained by both market and country of origin.

Plus doesn't hurt having a rotating cadre of superstar over-PPG wingers to pump those numbers up.

I guess I'm just going to have to disagree. Kopitar is widely considered the second best two way player in the past 10 or so years. If there was a "massive" east coast bias, why wouldn't someone like Sean Couturier or Ryan O'Reilly be up there in the discussion? Why wouldn't they also have multiple Selke's and finalists? There IS a bias and lack of being seen for Kopitar, but it's not the reason why Bergeron has 12 Top 5 finishes to 4 for Kopitar. They're closer than those numbers would make it seem, but Bergeron is still the better two way guy. There's just no number or data that says otherwise.

Kopitar has DEFINITELY had to shoulder a larger burden of the teams success though. That's not even up for discussion.

 

[Gjwrams]

Welp, looking like Saturday will be canceled.

i think you’re going to see a bunch of cancellations in all 3 sports. The Rams just put 9 more players on the Covid list. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Olympics and WJC cancelled as well.

 

[cyclones22]

Bergeron wasn't even a number one center on his own team for a good number of years. And the hilarious part is he still had better winger's on the second line in Boston than Kopi did here.

 

[YP44]

Bergeron wasn't even a number one center on his own team for a good number of years. And the hilarious part is he still had better winger's on the second line in Boston than Kopi did here.

Did they both have Lucic?

 

[King'sPawn]

I think Getzlaf has the most shots on the duck this season or has already surpassed his season total. He's been shooting a lot. No one is saying Kopitar is a bad player, just isn't a great captain. They're mutually exclusive. Don't want you to conflate things because you're way off base if that's what you got out of it for some weird reason.

This season shots:
Getzlaf 59
Kopitar 75

2020-21
Getzlaf 70 (1.46/gm)
Kopitar 118 (2.12/gm)

2019-20
Getzlaf 143 (2.07/gm)
Kopitar 135 (1.93/gm)

2018-19
Getzlaf 133 (1.99/gm)
Kopitar 156 (1.93/gm)

2017-18
Getzlaf 117 (2.09/gm)
Kopitar 200 (2.44/gm)

2016-17
Getzlaf 138 (1.86/gm)
Kopitar 150 (1.97/gm)

What I'm saying is a select few are complaining about Kopitar for the same reasons Ducks fans complain about Getzlaf. And remark that Getzlaf is the better captain even though Kopitar's only been captain for half a dozen years.

Kopitar's not infallible, but this glorifying of a different player to be some elite and superior leader is hilariously silly. Kopitar's been front and center of the Kings for 14 years, playing in all roles and situations for Crawford, Murray, Sutter, Stevens, Desjardins, and McLellan. The Ducks tried to beat the Kings by bringing in Kesler to counter what Kopitar did (while also being the top scorer on the team in the regular season and playoffs). This assertion he's a bad leader because he's not a pugilistic meathead is laughable.

 

[BigKing]

Their PPG has almost always been identical and that's obviously independent of injuries and also where is this myth of 'consistent' Getzlaf coming from? The guy had a 50 point season sandwiched between two PPGs.

I"m just saying this thing where Getzlaf is a superior offensive player is not grounded in fact and I know you're not intended to use it to degrade Kopitar, I'm more using it to show how good offensively he is because people don't seem to think so DUE TO his durability and consistency and because we're not (most of us anyway) hanging around with Ducks fans enough to hear about his highs and lows. Believe me, there was plenty of annoyance with him as there is here with Kopi.

That 50 point season is very comparable to Kopitar's 2017 or 2019 seasons.

I understand the highs and lows: I am very grateful that he hasn't shot nearly as much as he should because he can absolutely wire it. Maybe he does if he had worse wingers like Kopitar has had but I'm very happy that he kept that shot under wraps.

I still want Kopitar and think he's the better player. I've just always felt that Getzlaf was more dangerous but this was during their respective youths when Getzlaf was doing a stretch of 6-out-of-7 years of over a PPG. Getz has kind of turned into a Cy Young guy with his assist to goals ratio now while Kopitar has kept on trucking which, again, is what is so impressive about Kopitar.