Injury Report: 2021/22 Injury Thread Part II of ∞

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Can the NHL financially survive more shut downs?

That's the biggest concern about it.

I think they'll be fine if they just shut down for say 2 weeks and schedule the games later... Shouldn't lose any revenue over that. But if they have to shut down and then shorten the season again to say 70 games from 82, that will hurt. And if they have to go back to no fans in the stands for any significant amount of time that will really be a tough blow.

 

[henchman21]

Can the NHL financially survive more shut downs?

The NHL can... teams are an entirely different question and complicating that matter further will be the eventual payback. Even small shutdowns or periods with no fans will cause the flat cap to extend longer and longer.

 

[AvsFan29]

That's the biggest concern about it.

I think they'll be fine if they just shut down for say 2 weeks and schedule the games later... Shouldn't lose any revenue over that. But if they have to shut down and then shorten the season again to say 70 games from 82, that will hurt. And if they have to go back to no fans in the stands for any significant amount of time that will really be a tough blow.

Considering how much richer most billionaires got during the pandemic, I'd say the NHL will be fine.

 

[67 others]

View attachment 490876
Source: common sense

Arena owners keep them as busy as possible. They don't just leave them empty incase hockey games need to be rescheduled.

Edit: ball arena during the Olympic break.

I work in an arena and flip them for events. Can confirm, music concerts, events etc are booked months in advance. We were advertising judas priest/sabaton 5 months before the concert. We have a university basketball tournament scheduled for January already.

And yes, flipping from hockey to lacrosse to basketball and back is awful when we had a season for each sport. All the Staff are praying the halifax hurricanes basketball team folds for good or goes elsewhere. They never can even get a decent amount of fans to watch anyways and we lose money flipping the arena for their events. They would be better off holding games at the university.

Hockey to basketball sucks and is a long backbreaking shift. Lacrosse isn't as rough. You leave the glass in, drop icedeck and turf and then put up ads over the existing mooseheads ads. Basketball is a different animal

 

[67 others]

Surely you recognize that in a 1 week stretch of what you just posted, 2 of the days are completely open. Not to mention the NHL and its agreement with arenas almost certainly mean they get priority over "Bad Bunny"


If the league has to, it will make space to reschedule games during the Olympic break.


EDIT: Just to further drive home the point, I'm sure you purposely chose the one week in February where Ball Arena is busy.


Here's the entire month. Home

NHL Olympic break was scheduled to run from February 3rd to February 22nd. There's literally 7 nights in that stretch where Ball Arena has no events on the go.


The Avs could easily reschedule 4-5 home games in that period. Especially from the 15th to the 19th of February, where they could run 3 home games in 5 nights.

I don't think you understand. If basketball is scheduled for the 6th and 8th, the 7th would have team practices booked, etc

It's not as simple as just taking the basketball floor, icedeck down and glass back in. Different teams have different sponsors. It means ripping does advertising and or covering it with the other teams advertising and then repeating that process a day later. Blackout drape. Forklift drivers, storage. These things are planned Months in advance and requires a large crew in an industry suffering a crew shortage

If there are musical events or comedy events or even ice capades, there are seperate rigging companies of 30 crew putting truss and lighting up that takes several days

If you tried to tell the crew I know that you were adding 14 Arena flips to a month, the entire crew would not show up in unity and say we failed a covid rapid test lol

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I don't think you understand. If basketball is scheduled for the 6th and 8th, the 7th would have team practices booked, etc

It's not as simple as just taking the basketball floor, icedeck down and glass back in. Different teams have different sponsors. It means ripping does advertising and or covering it with the other teams advertising and then repeating that process a day later. Blackout drape. Forklift drivers, storage. These things are planned Months in advance and requires a large crew in an industry suffering a crew shortage

If there are musical events or comedy events or even ice capades, there are seperate rigging companies of 30 crew putting truss and lighting up that takes several days

If you tried to tell the crew I know that you were adding 14 Arena flips to a month, the entire crew would not show up in unity and say we failed a covid rapid test lol

That may or may not be the case. Look at the schedules I just posted for different months. Sports go b2b all the time with hockey one night and basketball the next night.

I dont know about Basketball, but Hockey teams don't practice in the same facility they play in, they have separate facilities for that.


We also aren't talking about "14 extra flips a month" we are talking about maybe 2-3 home games over the course of 3 weeks.


Besides all of that. Don't forget the league has two different versions of a schedule made up literally for this exact scenario of where the NHL didn't go to the Olympics. They have absolutely planned for all of this. Thinking a league as big as the NHL didn't plan for it is just silly.

 

[AvsFan31]

That may or may not be the case. Look at the schedules I just posted for different months. Sports go b2b all the time with hockey one night and basketball the next night.

I dont know about Basketball, but Hockey teams don't practice in the same facility they play in, they have separate facilities for that.


We also aren't talking about "14 extra flips a month" we are talking about maybe 2-3 home games over the course of 3 weeks.


Besides all of that. Don't forget the league has two different versions of a schedule made up literally for this exact scenario of where the NHL didn't go to the Olympics. They have absolutely planned for all of this. Thinking a league as big as the NHL didn't plan for it is just silly.

The arenas might have booked events during the Olympic time period. Could be a gong show.

 

[67 others]

That may or may not be the case. Look at the schedules I just posted for different months. Sports go b2b all the time with hockey one night and basketball the next night.

I dont know about Basketball, but Hockey teams don't practice in the same facility they play in, they have separate facilities for that.


We also aren't talking about "14 extra flips a month" we are talking about maybe 2-3 home games over the course of 3 weeks.


Besides all of that. Don't forget the league has two different versions of a schedule made up literally for this exact scenario of where the NHL didn't go to the Olympics. They have absolutely planned for all of this. Thinking a league as big as the NHL didn't plan for it is just silly.

You originally pointed out 7 days where the arena is available.

Now double that because every event that needs a different setup is an overnight flip requiring a crew of 18 or more with at least 2 trained forklift drivers. Not including cleaners which is an entire different department.

If you add 3 home games, you are adding 6 arena flips. Those things need to be pre-planned to go seamlessly and extra time given to riggers handling music or comedy shows

Most arena flip crews are unionized so you can't give the work to workers that are not part of the union and if you say "by the way, we are adding 6 flips over a fee weeks" will tell you to stick it up your arse or Pay us $50 an hour+ overtime for the additional workload+$5 for each hour between 11pm and 6am or there is an unspoken wave of covid positive call offs and have to cancel the game when nobody shows up to flip.


More if it's a music event like bad bunny. Then you need a separate crew of certified riggers for the truss and lighting that takes days to get up and running and needs to be taken down for sporting events. Dropping it can be done in 8 hours, but putting it back up and calibrating is another animal. The concert bowl drape, the blackout drape.

Some of the events listed are monster jam. That requires more. It means taking out the ice, not just covering it in icedeck. That alone is a long long process

Ice needs to be put on in successive layers. 1 layer, white paint, another layer, blue lines, red lines, another layer, advertising, then 12 to 15 successive layers each frozen individually very thin to make sure the ice is hard enough for hockey. It doesn't freeze instantly and you can't just fill it up like an ice cube tray

 

[MaKarter]

Guys, Pierce is always right. Just learn to live with it.

Alright "Pierce Bawthorn"

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

You originally pointed out 7 days where the arena is available.

Now double that because every event that needs a different setup is an overnight flip requiring a crew of 18 or more with at least 2 trained forklift drivers. Not including cleaners which is an entire different department.

If you add 3 home games, you are adding 6 arena flips. Those things need to be pre-planned to go seamlessly and extra time given to riggers handling music or comedy shows

Most arena flip crews are unionized so you can't give the work to workers that are not part of the union and if you say "by the way, we are adding 6 flips over a fee weeks" will tell you to stick it up your arse or Pay us $50 an hour+ overtime for the additional workload+$5 for each hour between 11pm and 6am or there is an unspoken wave of covid positive call offs and have to cancel the game when nobody shows up to flip.


More if it's a music event like bad bunny. Then you need a separate crew of certified riggers for the truss and lighting that takes days to get up and running and needs to be taken down for sporting events. Dropping it can be done in 8 hours, but putting it back up and calibrating is another animal. The concert bowl drape, the blackout drape.

Some of the events listed are monster jam. That requires more. It means taking out the ice, not just covering it in icedeck. That alone is a long long process

Ice needs to be put on in successive layers. 1 layer, white paint, another layer, blue lines, red lines, another layer, advertising, then 12 to 15 successive layers each frozen individually very thin to make sure the ice is hard enough for hockey. It doesn't freeze instantly and you can't just fill it up like an ice cube tray

That's great and all, you know your stuff. Doesn't change the fact there's all kinds of free time in the month of February to add games if the league needed to do it. The league and arenas planned for this. You can obviously see it in the arena bookings month by month.

And just look at the Staples Center schedule for March. In the span of three nights they have an NBA Game Night 1, an Imagine Dragons Concert Night 2, and an NHL game Night 3. Obviously these arena teams can very easily do flips 1 day after another for all 3 major event times(Concert, NBA game, NHL Game). If the league needed to, they could absolutely add an NHL Home game at Staples Center on February 7th, between two NBA games, and another on February 15th, again between two NBA games.

You're acting like these are impossible things to do yet they do them every single month practically all month long. 27/31 nights in March at Staples Center they have events. On the flip side, only 21/28 nights in February have events.

The NHL before this season started even said they were working on two separate schedules one with an Olympic Break and one without an Olympic break. Look at the February schedules for arenas all across the league and it shows the same kind of vacant days. The league planned for this, and quite frankly considering its the NHL they've probably even paid for a lot of those empty nights in arenas in advanced in preparation for this time of scenario playing out, hence why they also had two schedules developed.


EDIT: It's not like the league hasn't done thus before. Let's not forget last season when all kinds of games were rescheduled as well. The league prepared for thus and have a plan to put in place if necessary.

 

[SaltySkywalker]

Alright "Pierce Bawthorn"

Oh, he’s next.

 

[Balthazar]

Oh, he’s next.

You still can't change your name?

 

[67 others]

That's great and all, you know your stuff. Doesn't change the fact there's all kinds of free time in the month of February to add games if the league needed to do it. The league and arenas planned for this. You can obviously see it in the arena bookings month by month.

And just look at the Staples Center schedule for March. In the span of three nights they have an NBA Game Night 1, an Imagine Dragons Concert Night 2, and an NHL game Night 3. Obviously these arena teams can very easily do flips 1 day after another for all 3 major event times(Concert, NBA game, NHL Game). If the league needed to, they could absolutely add an NHL Home game at Staples Center on February 7th, between two NBA games, and another on February 15th, again between two NBA games.

You're acting like these are impossible things to do yet they do them every single month practically all month long. 27/31 nights in March at Staples Center they have events. On the flip side, only 21/28 nights in February have events.

The NHL before this season started even said they were working on two separate schedules one with an Olympic Break and one without an Olympic break. Look at the February schedules for arenas all across the league and it shows the same kind of vacant days. The league planned for this, and quite frankly considering its the NHL they've probably even paid for a lot of those empty nights in arenas in advanced in preparation for this time of scenario playing out, hence why they also had two schedules developed.


EDIT: It's not like the league hasn't done thus before. Let's not forget last season when all kinds of games were rescheduled as well. The league prepared for thus and have a plan to put in place if necessary.

Yes, that sort of flip is easy. When you go from basketball to concert, all the glass is already taken out and the icedeck is already down. you literally just remove chairs and the basketball floor, build the stage and vacate so the riggers go to the ceiling and set up dressing rooms. it takes 4 hours. Then you come back next day after the riggers have spent 16 hours from 1AM to 4PM rigging, calibrating lighting and running hundreds of wires and install seating and concert barricades. Its bing bang done.

Concert to hockey is also easy. Rigging teardown is a lot faster than setup. You simply clear seating at 11PM and then go drink coffee for an hour as they tear down and pack. Except the forklift drivers who load their truck. They keep going. Then you start installing glass on the opposite side of the arena the stage is on, and begin tearing out stage as the riggers clear from front to back and at the end pick up icedeck.

That sort of flip you just described isn't hard with 40 people. It isn't even hard with 20

I Just looked at your calendar for that arena. The only way this happens is if you cancel Monster Jam and refund tickets. Because you have no window for an ice in and Monster trucks cannot drive on icedeck covered in dirt and it would seep through and ruin the ice anyways. They need the concrete slab. Which means thursday the 3rd was a scheduled ice out. The 10th through 11th would be a full day + of bringing in 75 to 125 truckloads of dirt for the Monster truck show. The last day of the Monster truck show is a 1pm show because they need a half day and overnight to clean it up and out and reset the basketball floor.

Making ice requires 48 hours minimum(IF they don't need to clean the slab multiple times. Longer if the slab isn't spotless and free of oil), and doesn't get any faster. Then you need to set up Lacrosse for an early Sunday game on the 20th. In short, they cannot schedule games on the 17th, 18th and 19th

You do not have as many days available as you think. you have the 22nd, 23rd and 24th and THAT'S It. All those open days you see before that are a mirage to fool folks who don't know the industry

 

[SaltySkywalker]

You still can't change your name?

I haven’t checked honestly but I think I still have like 6 months left.

Doesn't matter. Changing it to Wenchman24 anyways.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I haven’t checked honestly but I think I still have like 6 months left.

Doesn't matter. Changing it to Wenchman24 anyways.

Thank god. Means Stenchman24 is still open for me.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

I've seen you post this twice now without any sort of source to back it up...


I'm willing to bet arenas have enough availability to make it work if the league decided to go that route. I'd even guess the league already had this in its back pocket as a contingency plan if it was required.

The arenas are booked. There's nowhere to play during the Olympic break.

For what it's worth LeBrun chimed in a few days ago about this....

LeBrun: Gary Bettman's future, an Olympic update and more from the Board of Governors meeting

The fact is, the league did ask clubs to try to keep their buildings mostly open during that stretch in case there was an Olympic pull-out, but understandably some teams went ahead and took the sure revenue in concert dates.​

 

[SaltySkywalker]

Thank god. Means Stenchman24 is still open for me.

Dammit. That’s good.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

At last my mayne maine francouz is back like the rainman! I is just so glad

will he be the starter going forward by chance?

 

[Gatorbait19]

I think there’s only like a 1% chance of a full shutdown. Covid isn’t going away and only going to get worse again. There’s no guarantee it will be better when they restart it and it would be silly to shut it down only to restart it when infections are even worse.

 

[the_fan]

Yeah shutting down sports because of covid again won't make sense unless they shut it down until covid goes away and becomes just a regular thing, like it happened with Spanish flu, and that will take years, so they gotta shut it down for a while not just this year and next.

 

[CharlesPuck]

Leave it to Pierce to argue against a guy who ACTUALLY works at an arena and does that for a living.

 

[flyfysher]

Leave it to Pierce to argue against a guy who ACTUALLY works at an arena and does that for a living.

PH is the Nuke of our Avs board. Relentless!

Just kidding PH! We love your arguments and opinions.

 

[SaltySkywalker]

Yeah shutting down sports because of covid again won't make sense unless they shut it down until covid goes away and becomes just a regular thing, like it happened with Spanish flu, and that will take years, so they gotta shut it down for a while not just this year and next.

Just to be clear, you're saying they should cancel hockey for the next few years??

 

[Nihiliste]

Just to be clear, you're saying they should cancel hockey for the next few years??

He’s saying they shouldn’t bother closing

 

[Coachcorner]

will he be the starter going forward by chance?

Definitely sire. Congratulations already We is all going to love this route