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2020 Draft & Undrafted Free Agent Thread: Part IV

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bl02 said:
WOW. You're saying the Kings could take him?
They would trade down if they did right? If so who do you think they would trade down with? I don't see anyone taking Askarov top 10 unless the small possibility the Devils take him at #7.
Man if we don't win number 1 overall I would love to grab Stutz but the Kings are gonna want a kings ransom for the 2nd overall due to supply and demand.
Click to expand...

There have been strong rumors that the Kings are going to do something "shocking" with No.2. Not sure if it's a smokescreen or not, but there have been organizational annoyance towards their goaltending. I don't know who the right trade partner would be for them, but I would speculate that either D (Drysdale and Sanderson) or Askarov are in the running along with Byfield and Stutzle.

I don't think the Devils are going to take a goalie, same with Minnesota. Think the teams in the top 10 to do so are LA, Ottawa and Buffalo.
 
bl02 said:
He's going between 5-7
Click to expand...

Not necessarily, his draft year was incredibly underwhelming. I think he's going to have a Filip Forsberg type draft. Highly ranked and skilled player at the start, but seasonal circumstances (like not being able to catch a break on playing time and scoring chances) will drop him. A team in the teens will snag him and he'll flourish.
 
Amazing Kreiderman said:
For me? Rossi, Quinn, Mercer, Zary, Jarvis, Holloway.

I think Raymond is the best offensively skilled player in this draft, but I would not draft him in the top-10. Too many red flags.

Regarding Rossi and Quinn, I have the same doubts for both that I have explained already. Their unnatural jump in production, paired with being on a team with a handful of 20-21 year olds dominating shifts just makes me a bit weary. Not that they are bad prospects, not at all. But I think their production is more the result of external factors than others in the top-10.

Lundell put up the 6th highest point/game average since 2000 by a draft eligible player. Pair that with his possession game, ranked 2nd league-wide in corsi%, it's hard for me to say the offense is an issue. I think Ryan Johansen is a good comparison for Lundell in terms of his possible impact. He isn't as good as Barkov, but he is right there in the next tier. I don't think, aside from Stützle, Holtz, Byfield and Lafreniere (and maybe Perfetti) I would put anyone ahead of Lundell in terms of what he brings as a player.
Click to expand...

I think there are good points about the players you mentioned. I agree with you on Zary and probably Holloway too, although part of me wonders if the jump from the AJHL to the NCAA and playing on such a disaster of a team in Wisconsin didn't hinder Holloway to a material extent. Makar made a huge jump from his first season in the NCAA to his second and Holloway did play better at the end of the season. Still, I definitely have enough uncertainty about Holloway to prefer other guys with our top pick.

Rossi definitely benefited from playing on a line with Gareffa and Keating, who were 7th and 9th in the OHL scoring. Rossi is a pretty slow straightline skater (even in the OHL he doesn't really skate by people) and he definitely got a lot of help from Gareffa and Keating in transporting the puck up ice and maintaining possession in the zone. Still, Rossi is such a good passer, he's definitely got high end puck skills, he competes hard and is positionally smart (he reminds me a lot of Zuccarello in the way he wins puck battles as an undersized guy without elite skating ability and makes high end passes), and he reportedly has phenomenal work ethic, so I'd bet on him on him at least improving the skating to some extent. It's not that there isn't uncertainty with Rossi too, I'd just rather make the bet on Rossi improving his skating than Lundell improving his passing and puck skills.

I don't think Quinn, who played with the 22nd and 188th highest scorers in the OHL, benefited as much from his linemates as Rossi did, but he did get to against 2nd D pairings, and I wonder how much better that made him look. In the context of Quinn being a guy who only started to focus on hockey relatively recently, the late jump in production makes sense to me (and I tend to think of it as a sign of good work habits when players improve a lot), but that is a question with Quinn that you don't have to ask with other guys. Still, Quinn's skating, hands, and shooting ability just jump of the screen to me when I watch him play and he works hard too. Personally, I'm a big enough believer in his skillset to make the bet on him.

Jarvis is a pretty interesting one to me. His skating and work ethic are like through the roof:



I can't find it now, but I remember Mitch Brown's tracking had Jarvis as basically the best player he's ever seen in terms of driving possession and frequently generating offensive chances. He is just 5'9" and I don't think Jarvis consistently shows the skill that Rossi, Quinn or some of the higher ranked guys you mentioned do, but I feel like has a pretty good shot and he has enough flashes of evasiveness, deception, and passing ability for me to buy into the high end skill being there:





https://twitter.com/BenTDooley/status/1221263532290801664

He's one of my favorites outside of the top 5 you mentioned. I'll bet on the skating ability and work ethic against an inch or two of height all day and even if he doesn't end up having the skill to be a top scorer, a guy who drives play like that is still really valuable.

Mercer is also a pretty hard working player who made the Canadian WJC team on the 4th line as a pre-draft player. Perfetti didn't even make that team. I'll admit that I do wonder if things would look the other way around if Lundell was playing in the Q and Mercer was playing in Liiga, but with Mercer, there are just more examples of him making plays that show off an ability to do the kinds of things that I think lead to NHL production like reading the defense and anticipate openings, using his hands to deceive defenders, hitting seams, etc

https://twitter.com/Andylehoux1/status/1271480423827341313

https://twitter.com/Xhockey/status/1259860181636317185

https://twitter.com/JoshTessler_/status/1201271557726838785

Either way, unless the Rangers go crazy off the board we should end up with a pretty interesting prospect at 10 / 11. I would not be upset about having Lundell in our system. I just think there's more upside with the guys who have more clearly shown skating, passing and deception skills and I'm personally more comfortable making the bet on those guys rounding out their games than I am on Lundell developing the high end skills.
 
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Joey Bones said:
Same can be said about Quinn, who I think benefitted most from this rather than Rossi....
Click to expand...

Were they productive because they were playing with older players or were the older players as productive as they were because they were playing with Quinn and Rossi?

I'd say it was the latter.

bl02 said:
I keep watching clips of Lundell and he's obviously got great IQ/good two way player, good accurate shot. His straight away speed/Stride looks ok but really no impressed with his speed/skating in tight spaces/short bursts. I know he played in Liiga but its a bit scary if he can't improve on that area of his game to get on par or better at the NHL level. The thing that scares me most is drafting another poor skater in the first round.
Click to expand...

His first few steps are slow and his technique is not good. Makes him look more clunky/slow than he actually is but those things are fixable, the extent to which he can improve them remain to be seen. Like Rossi, hes pretty close to maxed out physically.

His passing worries me more than his skating does. I mean the skating needs to improve but that seems to be a common theme with a lot of these young Finns, they end up figuring it out. Your center doesn't have to be your primary playmaker, but I don't think that part of his game is necessarily at the level that it needs to be at. Just as a comparison, he isn't even in the same stratosphere as Rossi when it comes to making plays.

Really, I have a tough time seeing him topping out at anything more than a 15-30-45 guy who can do a bit of everything. Thats solid 2nd line production and if hes also driving possession while doing so and able to PK theres some real value there, thats a player worth taking at 10/11. But if you have guys on the board who may put up double the production and are just as strong (if not better) defensively, it's a tough pick to justify.

Guess it really depends on how high you think his offensive ceiling is.
 
pblawr said:
I think there are good points about the players you mentioned. I agree with you on Zary and probably Holloway too, although part of me wonders if the jump from the AJHL to the NCAA and playing on such a disaster of a team in Wisconsin didn't hinder Holloway to a material extent. Makar made a huge jump from his first season in the NCAA to his second and Holloway did play better at the end of the season. Still, I definitely have enough uncertainty about Holloway to prefer other guys with our top pick.

Rossi definitely benefited from playing on a line with Gareffa and Keating, who were 7th and 9th in the OHL scoring. Rossi is a pretty slow straightline skater (even in the OHL he doesn't really skate by people) and he definitely got a lot of help from Gareffa and Keating in transporting the puck up ice and maintaining possession in the zone. Still, Rossi is such a good passer, he's definitely got high end puck skills, he competes hard and is positionally smart (he reminds me a lot of Zuccarello in the way he wins puck battles as an undersized guy without elite skating ability and makes high end passes), and he reportedly has phenomenal work ethic, so I'd bet on him on him at least improving the skating to some extent. It's not that there isn't uncertainty with Rossi too, I'd just rather make the bet on Rossi improving his skating than Lundell improving his passing and puck skills.

I don't think Quinn, who played with the 22nd and 188th highest scorers in the OHL, benefited as much from his linemates as Rossi did, but he did get to against 2nd D pairings, and I wonder how much better that made him look. In the context of Quinn being a guy who only started to focus on hockey relatively recently, the late jump in production makes sense to me (and I tend to think of it as a sign of good work habits when players improve a lot), but that is a question with Quinn that you don't have to ask with other guys. Still, Quinn's skating, hands, and shooting ability just jump of the screen to me when I watch him play and he works hard too. Personally, I'm a big enough believer in his skillset to make the bet on him.

Jarvis is a pretty interesting one to me. His skating and work ethic are like through the roof:



I can't find it now, but I remember Mitch Brown's tracking had Jarvis as basically the best player he's ever seen in terms of driving possession and frequently generating offensive chances. He is just 5'9" and I don't think Jarvis consistently shows the skill that Rossi, Quinn or some of the higher ranked guys you mentioned do, but I feel like has a pretty good shot and he has enough flashes of evasiveness, deception, and passing ability for me to buy into the high end skill being there:





https://twitter.com/BenTDooley/status/1221263532290801664

He's one of my favorites outside of the top 5 you mentioned. I'll bet on the skating ability and work ethic against an inch or two of height all day and even if he doesn't end up having the skill to be a top scorer, a guy who drives play like that is still really valuable.

Mercer is also a pretty hard working player who made the Canadian WJC team on the 4th line as a pre-draft player. Perfetti didn't even make that team. I'll admit that I do wonder if things would look the other way around if Lundell was playing in the Q and Mercer was playing in Liiga, but with Mercer, there are just more examples of him making plays that show off an ability to do the kinds of things that I think lead to NHL production like reading the defense and anticipate openings, using his hands to deceive defenders, hitting seams, etc

https://twitter.com/Andylehoux1/status/1271480423827341313

https://twitter.com/Xhockey/status/1259860181636317185

https://twitter.com/JoshTessler_/status/1201271557726838785

Either way, unless the Rangers go crazy off the board we should end up with a pretty interesting prospect at 10 / 11. I would not be upset about having Lundell in our system. I just think there's more upside with the guys who have more clearly shown skating, passing and deception skills and I'm personally more comfortable making the bet on those guys rounding out their games than I am on Lundell developing the high end skills.
Click to expand...



I love you.
 
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pblawr said:
I think there are good points about the players you mentioned. I agree with you on Zary and probably Holloway too, although part of me wonders if the jump from the AJHL to the NCAA and playing on such a disaster of a team in Wisconsin didn't hinder Holloway to a material extent. Makar made a huge jump from his first season in the NCAA to his second and Holloway did play better at the end of the season. Still, I definitely have enough uncertainty about Holloway to prefer other guys with our top pick.

Rossi definitely benefited from playing on a line with Gareffa and Keating, who were 7th and 9th in the OHL scoring. Rossi is a pretty slow straightline skater (even in the OHL he doesn't really skate by people) and he definitely got a lot of help from Gareffa and Keating in transporting the puck up ice and maintaining possession in the zone. Still, Rossi is such a good passer, he's definitely got high end puck skills, he competes hard and is positionally smart (he reminds me a lot of Zuccarello in the way he wins puck battles as an undersized guy without elite skating ability and makes high end passes), and he reportedly has phenomenal work ethic, so I'd bet on him on him at least improving the skating to some extent. It's not that there isn't uncertainty with Rossi too, I'd just rather make the bet on Rossi improving his skating than Lundell improving his passing and puck skills.

I don't think Quinn, who played with the 22nd and 188th highest scorers in the OHL, benefited as much from his linemates as Rossi did, but he did get to against 2nd D pairings, and I wonder how much better that made him look. In the context of Quinn being a guy who only started to focus on hockey relatively recently, the late jump in production makes sense to me (and I tend to think of it as a sign of good work habits when players improve a lot), but that is a question with Quinn that you don't have to ask with other guys. Still, Quinn's skating, hands, and shooting ability just jump of the screen to me when I watch him play and he works hard too. Personally, I'm a big enough believer in his skillset to make the bet on him.

Jarvis is a pretty interesting one to me. His skating and work ethic are like through the roof:



I can't find it now, but I remember Mitch Brown's tracking had Jarvis as basically the best player he's ever seen in terms of driving possession and frequently generating offensive chances. He is just 5'9" and I don't think Jarvis consistently shows the skill that Rossi, Quinn or some of the higher ranked guys you mentioned do, but I feel like has a pretty good shot and he has enough flashes of evasiveness, deception, and passing ability for me to buy into the high end skill being there:





https://twitter.com/BenTDooley/status/1221263532290801664

He's one of my favorites outside of the top 5 you mentioned. I'll bet on the skating ability and work ethic against an inch or two of height all day and even if he doesn't end up having the skill to be a top scorer, a guy who drives play like that is still really valuable.

Mercer is also a pretty hard working player who made the Canadian WJC team on the 4th line as a pre-draft player. Perfetti didn't even make that team. I'll admit that I do wonder if things would look the other way around if Lundell was playing in the Q and Mercer was playing in Liiga, but with Mercer, there are just more examples of him making plays that show off an ability to do the kinds of things that I think lead to NHL production like reading the defense and anticipate openings, using his hands to deceive defenders, hitting seams, etc

https://twitter.com/Andylehoux1/status/1271480423827341313

https://twitter.com/Xhockey/status/1259860181636317185

https://twitter.com/JoshTessler_/status/1201271557726838785

Either way, unless the Rangers go crazy off the board we should end up with a pretty interesting prospect at 10 / 11. I would not be upset about having Lundell in our system. I just think there's more upside with the guys who have more clearly shown skating, passing and deception skills and I'm personally more comfortable making the bet on those guys rounding out their games than I am on Lundell developing the high end skills.
Click to expand...

Please. Post. More. :bow:
 
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Joey Bones said:
There have been strong rumors that the Kings are going to do something "shocking" with No.2. Not sure if it's a smokescreen or not, but there have been organizational annoyance towards their goaltending. I don't know who the right trade partner would be for them, but I would speculate that either D (Drysdale and Sanderson) or Askarov are in the running along with Byfield and Stutzle.

I don't think the Devils are going to take a goalie, same with Minnesota. Think the teams in the top 10 to do so are LA, Ottawa and Buffalo.
Click to expand...
I don't feel that Ottawa is gonna take a goalie at 3 or 5. Definitely don't see Buffalo at 8 they need more forward help. Maybe with the islander pick the Sens own but doubt Askarov drops that low. The LA thing is very interesting.
If we don't win the lottery and lets say have the 10th and 24th overall what else would the Kings want for number 2??? K'Andre Miller or a Kravtsov? Hey I'll throw in a Brett Howden.
I guess problem is if they drop down to 10 no guarantee Askarov is there.
 
OhYeahAndVesey said:
Does anyone think Evangelista will last into the third round? I'd really like to draft him - London knows how to churn out professional hockey players.
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure he makes it out of the 2nd round. London is a team that draws a lot of eyes and scouts saw him work his tail off to take a spot that was pretty much gift wrapped for Antonio Stranges. Teams that take big swings with their first may want to play it safe in the 2nd round instead of banking on the upside of kids like Poirier or Simontaival. Evangelista would be their guy.
 
Joey Bones said:
Not necessarily, his draft year was incredibly underwhelming. I think he's going to have a Filip Forsberg type draft. Highly ranked and skilled player at the start, but seasonal circumstances (like not being able to catch a break on playing time and scoring chances) will drop him. A team in the teens will snag him and he'll flourish.
Click to expand...

It would be hard for me to foresee a scenario a scenario where Raymond is on the board and he’s not the best available pick for the Rangers, red flags and all. If he’s there it means Lundell and Rossi are probably gone.
 
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mschmidt64 said:
It would be hard for me to foresee a scenario a scenario where Raymond is on the board and he’s not the best available pick for the Rangers, red flags and all. If he’s there it means Lundell and Rossi are probably gone.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily.

All it takes is for an additional D to go earlier than expected in addition to the big 3, Perfetti, Holtz and Askarov. Even if it isn't a D and Askarov falls, If Rossi and Quinn go, Raymond falls.

Askarov is really the Wild card. If someone pops him between 1-9, we're golden. I think we'd probably pass on Raymond though after the Lias and Kravtsov sagas. It's not a good reason, but recent history gets in the way of rational decision making.
 
Was talking to my hockey guy in Portland. Coaches youth hockey and plays out there. On Seth Jarvis- there is bust potential. That's why he's out of the top ten. It's not the talent, it's that he plays the game a way where it's not going to work in the NHL. You don't skate circles and deke three guys out at once in the NHL like Seth does in the WHL.

He will become stronger and faster with great edgework over time, but he also has to adapt his game to be an effective NHLer. Right now, the moves he tries would get his head slammed on the boards. Tantalizing talent, but that's why he was further down the rankings despite an outstanding year from his perspective. Could be a 40-60 point middle six winger who might get benched with the lead. Maybe not a guy who is on a contender consistently.

Best offensive player out of Portland his Bjorkstrom. The Winterhawks see some great talent go by their way.
 
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Amazing Kreiderman said:
Top 5 names in this draft:

1. Gunnarwolfe Fontaine
2. Ivan Ivan
3. Alex Laferriere (Just for the lolz)
4. Jérémie Biakabutuka
5. Luke Evangelista
Click to expand...

Also Jacob Perreault, just because I can easily add an 'a' to the end of his name and refer to him as "Peralta" in my best Capt Holt voice...

99!
 
I know there's a Foudy, a Bordeleau, a Perrault, a Guhle, a Sanderson, and a Bernard-Docker. Also, Morgan Barron's brother is expected to be a first or second rounder. What other legacies are there?

BTW, is younger Foudy as fast his brother?
 
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Ranger Spice said:
I know there's a Foudy, a Bordeleau, a Perrault, a Guhle, a Sanderson, and a Bernard-Docker. Also, Morgan Barron's brother is expected to be a first or second rounder. What other legacies are there?

BTW, is younger Foudy as fast his brother?
Click to expand...

From what i've heard, as good as, if not better. But with absolutely none of the offense
 
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