2020 Draft & Undrafted Free Agent Thread: Part IV

[Matt Rentfree]

Top 5 names in this draft:

1. Gunnarwolfe Fontaine
2. Ivan Ivan
3. Alex Laferriere (Just for the lolz)
4. Jérémie Biakabutuka
5. Luke Evangelista

No love for Wyatt Schingoethe?

 

[Thirty One]

No love for Wyatt Schingoethe?

That moment you find out the player you drafted in Eastside Hockey Manager is a real person.

 

[Thirty One]

Money Puck has Carolina making the 3rd round, and pushing our pick to 28-31 instead of 20-24, at 26.7%

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

The fact that Carolina is being gifted a top 15 pick for taking Patrick f***ing Marleau’s contract is absurd

 

[bobbop]

Not necessarily, his draft year was incredibly underwhelming. I think he's going to have a Filip Forsberg type draft. Highly ranked and skilled player at the start, but seasonal circumstances (like not being able to catch a break on playing time and scoring chances) will drop him. A team in the teens will snag him and he'll flourish.

With the SHL starting before the draft, he will certainly get some eyes on him.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

The fact that Carolina is being gifted a top 15 pick for taking Patrick f***ing Marleau’s contract is absurd

We only use our cap space against ourselves

 

[Ola]

Not necessarily, his draft year was incredibly underwhelming. I think he's going to have a Filip Forsberg type draft. Highly ranked and skilled player at the start, but seasonal circumstances (like not being able to catch a break on playing time and scoring chances) will drop him. A team in the teens will snag him and he'll flourish.

Honest question, was it really that underwhelming? I am exposing my ignorance here, but 2nd rate scoring in the SHL and what 0.5 at the WJC aren’t that bad is it?

I can sometimes be very convinced of things (right or wrong). This isn’t one of them. My stance is just that I’ve not seen enough to abandon my view of Raymond — that holds him very high. But I definitely wouldn’t rule out that there are things there that I’ve missed.

Filip Forsberg is one comparison in terms of draft position/performance. But my hope would be that he would be more like Marner. I.e. someone that isn’t picked with one of the first selections, but once he shows up he more or less proves that he is as good as anyone selected not named McDavid.

 

[Ola]

Draft selections are weary to estimate because it will to such a large extent come down to preference of the selecting teams. But I don’t think Raymond is dropping far. Too much “hockey” there. If the does there got to be something else there scaring teams away.

Holtz is from my POV a harder player to pin down. Teams can be a little afraid of snipers. The close you get to the draft, the more boxes you want to be able to check. Caufield dropped a ton. I like Holtz better than Wahlström, but both faces the same challenges in the pros in NA. Standing out/60 isn’t the issue. It’s playing 5 on 5 — better — than the average guy in the NHL 75% of the time that is a challenge.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

The fact that Carolina is being gifted a top 15 pick for taking Patrick f***ing Marleau’s contract is absurd

What's frustrating is that the Rangers never took advantage of other teams offloading bad contracts during our rebuild.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

What's frustrating is that the Rangers never took advantage of other teams offloading bad contracts during our rebuild.

tbf, there never was cap space to take any advantage.

 

[cwede]

IIUC BEST NYR OUTCOME RE CAROLINA PICK:
4 TEAMS w Worse record than Carolina all make Conference Finals

IIRC this is how draft seeds:
FIRST PLACE teams pick no earlier than 24th
Conference Finals teams Pick 28-31

1st Pl teams
BOS	1.4286
STL	1.3239		DAL	1.1884
WAS	1.3043		NYI	1.1765
LVGK	1.2113		CBJ	1.1571
			VAN	1.1304
TBL	1.3143		CAL	1.1286
COLO	1.3143		ARIZ	1.0571
PHIL	1.2899		CHI	1.0286
CAR	1.1912		MTL	1.0000

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I will be rooting for
Habs and Jackets to knock out Flyers and TBL in First round
Bruins and Caps to knock out Canes and NYI in First round
then Habs and Jackets to knock out Bruins and Caps

Out West need any 2 of Dal, Van, Cal, Ariz or Chi to make WCF
Let Chi and Van knock out Vegas, St Lou (1st place teams) quick
if Yotes can also knock out Avs, both WCF spots would then make Canes pick earlier

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

tbf, there never was cap space to take any advantage.

Yeah, they never put themselves in a position to make that happen. Signing Trouba, trading for Strome and Namestnikov, just kept them close to the cap ceiling.

 

[Leetch3]

The fact that Carolina is being gifted a top 15 pick for taking Patrick f***ing Marleau’s contract is absurd

to go along with Teravainen who they got for taking bickell's contract

 

[cwede]

IIUC BEST NYR OUTCOME RE CAROLINA PICK:
4 TEAMS w Worse record than Carolina all make Conference Finals

IIRC this is how draft seeds:
FIRST PLACE teams pick no earlier than 24th
Conference Finals teams Pick 28-31

1st Pl teams
BOS	1.4286
STL	1.3239		DAL	1.1884
WAS	1.3043		NYI	1.1765
LVGK	1.2113		CBJ	1.1571
			VAN	1.1304
TBL	1.3143		CAL	1.1286
COLO	1.3143		ARIZ	1.0571
PHIL	1.2899		CHI	1.0286
CAR	1.1912		MTL	1.0000

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I will be rooting for
Habs and Jackets to knock out Flyers and TBL in First round
Bruins and Caps to knock out Canes and NYI in First round
then Habs and Jackets to knock out Bruins and Caps

Out West need any 2 of Dal, Van, Cal, Ariz or Chi to make WCF
Let Chi and Van knock out Vegas, St Lou (1st place teams) quick
if Yotes can also knock out Avs, both WCF spots would then make Canes pick earlier

or keep it simple and just follow
@StatBoy_Steven

 

[Joey Bones]

WOW!! CONGRATS ON A GREAT CAREER!!

 

[cwede]

What's frustrating is that the Rangers never took advantage of other teams offloading bad contracts during our rebuild.

tbf, there never was cap space to take any advantage.

Yeah, they never put themselves in a position to make that happen. Signing Trouba, trading for Strome and Namestnikov, just kept them close to the cap ceiling.

to go along with Teravainen who they got for taking bickell's contract

they never really were in that position, it was teams with no pricy talent that could pull that off, NYR had all the guys who got paid after the very competitive years 2011-2017

 

[Joey Bones]

Were they productive because they were playing with older players or were the older players as productive as they were because they were playing with Quinn and Rossi?

I'd say it was the latter.

No, I think they all just combined very well. Quinn had his own moments of flare and Rossi had more. The thing that is keeping me from being all gung ho about Quinn is his play without the puck and neutral zone aggressiveness. Also, does he consistently score 50+ goals without a stacked team? Next season, Ottawa will only have Quinn (and possibly Graeme Clarke) for their main offense. I'm curious to see how he'll be.

At the moment, though, he's got a lot leaning on him for a boom/bust player and that's something I think I'd rather gamble on after the Rangers first pick. Any of the players in the top 10 could fall, Mercer, Jarvis and Lundell are potentially going to be there. I would rather try my hand at one of them.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Draft selections are weary to estimate because it will to such a large extent come down to preference of the selecting teams. But I don’t think Raymond is dropping far. Too much “hockey” there. If the does there got to be something else there scaring teams away.

Holtz is from my POV a harder player to pin down. Teams can be a little afraid of snipers. The close you get to the draft, the more boxes you want to be able to check. Caufield dropped a ton. I like Holtz better than Wahlström, but both faces the same challenges in the pros in NA. Standing out/60 isn’t the issue. It’s playing 5 on 5 — better — than the average guy in the NHL 75% of the time that is a challenge.

I think Holtz is a significantly better skater that Wahlstrom was at the same age. That’s why I’d be pretty surprised if he dropped out of the top 5-7 or so.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

No, I think they all just combined very well. Quinn had his own moments of flare and Rossi had more. The thing that is keeping me from being all gung ho about Quinn is his play without the puck and neutral zone aggressiveness. Also, does he consistently score 50+ goals without a stacked team? Next season, Ottawa will only have Quinn (and possibly Graeme Clarke) for their main offense. I'm curious to see how he'll be.

At the moment, though, he's got a lot leaning on him for a boom/bust player and that's something I think I'd rather gamble on after the Rangers first pick. Any of the players in the top 10 could fall, Mercer, Jarvis and Lundell are potentially going to be there. I would rather try my hand at one of them.

I actually like Quinn away from the puck. He's far from a finished product, but there is a willingness to win races/ puck battles that just isn't there from a bunch of the top guys. I won't call him can't miss, that doesn't exist (Sanderson is close, but thats can't miss in a 'he is going to play in the NHL' way, not hes a superstar way) but I do think there are tools for a bottom 6 forward there if the rest of the development doesnt go as planned.

His shot is legit AF though. Except for Perrault (who is the ultimate bust/boom prospect. I really want to like him but I can't.) and maybe Holtz, I don't think anyone has a better shot in this draft than he does.

I love Jarvis and he's a guy who could definitely sneak into the top 10. Wouldn't surprise me if we're one of the teams who has him rated ahead of the curve. I like Mercer and Lundell as well, but not above Quinn.

There will be a dropper or 2 amongst the top 10. I just hope that this team doesn't key in on a guy and decide to take him even if someone who they have rated higher ends up falling. Be that Rossi, Raymond, or who ever.

 

[Joey Bones]

I think there are good points about the players you mentioned. I agree with you on Zary and probably Holloway too, although part of me wonders if the jump from the AJHL to the NCAA and playing on such a disaster of a team in Wisconsin didn't hinder Holloway to a material extent. Makar made a huge jump from his first season in the NCAA to his second and Holloway did play better at the end of the season. Still, I definitely have enough uncertainty about Holloway to prefer other guys with our top pick.

Rossi definitely benefited from playing on a line with Gareffa and Keating, who were 7th and 9th in the OHL scoring. Rossi is a pretty slow straightline skater (even in the OHL he doesn't really skate by people) and he definitely got a lot of help from Gareffa and Keating in transporting the puck up ice and maintaining possession in the zone. Still, Rossi is such a good passer, he's definitely got high end puck skills, he competes hard and is positionally smart (he reminds me a lot of Zuccarello in the way he wins puck battles as an undersized guy without elite skating ability and makes high end passes), and he reportedly has phenomenal work ethic, so I'd bet on him on him at least improving the skating to some extent. It's not that there isn't uncertainty with Rossi too, I'd just rather make the bet on Rossi improving his skating than Lundell improving his passing and puck skills.

I don't think Quinn, who played with the 22nd and 188th highest scorers in the OHL, benefited as much from his linemates as Rossi did, but he did get to against 2nd D pairings, and I wonder how much better that made him look. In the context of Quinn being a guy who only started to focus on hockey relatively recently, the late jump in production makes sense to me (and I tend to think of it as a sign of good work habits when players improve a lot), but that is a question with Quinn that you don't have to ask with other guys. Still, Quinn's skating, hands, and shooting ability just jump of the screen to me when I watch him play and he works hard too. Personally, I'm a big enough believer in his skillset to make the bet on him.

Jarvis is a pretty interesting one to me. His skating and work ethic are like through the roof:



I can't find it now, but I remember Mitch Brown's tracking had Jarvis as basically the best player he's ever seen in terms of driving possession and frequently generating offensive chances. He is just 5'9" and I don't think Jarvis consistently shows the skill that Rossi, Quinn or some of the higher ranked guys you mentioned do, but I feel like has a pretty good shot and he has enough flashes of evasiveness, deception, and passing ability for me to buy into the high end skill being there:





https://twitter.com/BenTDooley/status/1221263532290801664

He's one of my favorites outside of the top 5 you mentioned. I'll bet on the skating ability and work ethic against an inch or two of height all day and even if he doesn't end up having the skill to be a top scorer, a guy who drives play like that is still really valuable.

Mercer is also a pretty hard working player who made the Canadian WJC team on the 4th line as a pre-draft player. Perfetti didn't even make that team. I'll admit that I do wonder if things would look the other way around if Lundell was playing in the Q and Mercer was playing in Liiga, but with Mercer, there are just more examples of him making plays that show off an ability to do the kinds of things that I think lead to NHL production like reading the defense and anticipate openings, using his hands to deceive defenders, hitting seams, etc

https://twitter.com/Andylehoux1/status/1271480423827341313

https://twitter.com/Xhockey/status/1259860181636317185

https://twitter.com/JoshTessler_/status/1201271557726838785

Either way, unless the Rangers go crazy off the board we should end up with a pretty interesting prospect at 10 / 11. I would not be upset about having Lundell in our system. I just think there's more upside with the guys who have more clearly shown skating, passing and deception skills and I'm personally more comfortable making the bet on those guys rounding out their games than I am on Lundell developing the high end skills.

I agree with everything in this post, other than Quinn. Ottawa had a top 6 that destroyed other teams. Rossi played with Garreffa and Keating and Quinn played primarily with Hoelscher with Hoefenmayer doubling up his 20:00+ minutes of ice time. With this said, they all were on the PP together along with Hoefenmayer (who had an excellent year, too). This coming season will show what Quinn can do on his own, with zero help (outside of Graeme Clark who will be back from his injury). His aggressiveness in the neutral zone and all around play without the puck on his stick needs to be worked on, as well. Multiple times I've seen him lose his man positionally and that can't cut it.

He's that prototypical 50/50 boom/bust player that I think I would gamble on after the Rangers first pick.

And something else to note on Rossi.... he's a gym freak. He's constantly doing incredible balance and explosive workouts so I'm not worried about his speed. It'll come....

https://twitter.com/marcorossi2383/status/1260490403486277638

https://twitter.com/marcorossi2383/status/1262418392738418689

https://twitter.com/marcorossi2383/status/1262418596686442496

https://twitter.com/marcorossi2383/status/1265308343255666691

https://twitter.com/marcorossi2383/status/1278632147927121920

https://twitter.com/marcorossi2383/status/1290959268804427776

 

[Joey Bones]

Does anyone think Evangelista will last into the third round? I'd really like to draft him - London knows how to churn out professional hockey players.

Could be, I have him going in the middle 2nd round talent. It'll depend on how the draft plays out. There are some really good options in the 3rd round, though.

 

[Joey Bones]

I don't feel that Ottawa is gonna take a goalie at 3 or 5. Definitely don't see Buffalo at 8 they need more forward help. Maybe with the islander pick the Sens own but doubt Askarov drops that low. The LA thing is very interesting.
If we don't win the lottery and lets say have the 10th and 24th overall what else would the Kings want for number 2??? K'Andre Miller or a Kravtsov? Hey I'll throw in a Brett Howden.
I guess problem is if they drop down to 10 no guarantee Askarov is there.

I don't think there's a scenario for the Rangers to trade up that high without overpayment and I'm not so sure a team in the top 5 would be willing to A) part with a potential franchise player B) drop that far in the draft.

Buffalo is less likely, IMO, but Ottawa should really consider Askarov that high. They have no potential star goalies in their system other than Sogaard and he is very unlikely to become "stellar". Askarov immediately changes their depth in goal. They could really use a reliable, potential top pair defender, too.

The LA rumor is very interesting, for sure....

 

[Joey Bones]

It would be hard for me to foresee a scenario a scenario where Raymond is on the board and he’s not the best available pick for the Rangers, red flags and all. If he’s there it means Lundell and Rossi are probably gone.

In a way, but you have to consider the teams that are picking that high and have been linked to certain players. Each team's list will be different, it's all about preference.

But I could see Raymond falling out of the top 10, to then be selected by someone in the teens, and flourish nicely in the coming years.

At No. 10 or 11, I wouldn't mind him for NYR....

 

[Joey Bones]

Was talking to my hockey guy in Portland. Coaches youth hockey and plays out there. On Seth Jarvis- there is bust potential. That's why he's out of the top ten. It's not the talent, it's that he plays the game a way where it's not going to work in the NHL. You don't skate circles and deke three guys out at once in the NHL like Seth does in the WHL.

He will become stronger and faster with great edgework over time, but he also has to adapt his game to be an effective NHLer. Right now, the moves he tries would get his head slammed on the boards. Tantalizing talent, but that's why he was further down the rankings despite an outstanding year from his perspective. Could be a 40-60 point middle six winger who might get benched with the lead. Maybe not a guy who is on a contender consistently.

Best offensive player out of Portland his Bjorkstrom. The Winterhawks see some great talent go by their way.

You could say the same about Barzal in his draft year (who actually was injured for some of the season because of a hit). But he's been a consistent 60 point player out on the island. It's all about development. I mentioned earlier with Jarvis that he could be a Marner-like player or a better version of Spooner.

 

[Joey Bones]

Honest question, was it really that underwhelming? I am exposing my ignorance here, but 2nd rate scoring in the SHL and what 0.5 at the WJC aren’t that bad is it?

I can sometimes be very convinced of things (right or wrong). This isn’t one of them. My stance is just that I’ve not seen enough to abandon my view of Raymond — that holds him very high. But I definitely wouldn’t rule out that there are things there that I’ve missed.

Filip Forsberg is one comparison in terms of draft position/performance. But my hope would be that he would be more like Marner. I.e. someone that isn’t picked with one of the first selections, but once he shows up he more or less proves that he is as good as anyone selected not named McDavid.

Not at all, but there were some people on HF and others that do this kind of thing for a living seeing him as a star this year. Posting incredible numbers. It just didn't pan out that way for Raymond.

But the same was said about Forsberg in his draft year. So I don't see an issue with him once context about his season comes into play. Just got to hope he develops further as time goes by for a team selecting him.