Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

[NjDevsRR]

But that's also what I'm alluding to, what makes you think that he'll be able to fix what he's created? That's all I'm saying

Exactly why it would be a nice surprise

 

[IDEKWTM]

I miss Zetterlund, but I doubt he’d be getting the type of opportunity that he’s getting in SJ with us. Could we use him in the bottom 6 right now though? Hell yeah. Taking him over Holtz was a solid move on Grier’s part.

Regardless. This trade doesn't look too good at all. Plus Timo's contract is atrocious for his level of production.

 

[NjDevsRR]

For the folks who have watched Grits closely. How is his skating and all around game? I know he has a good shot and can pot goals in many different ways. But will his arrival next season be much needed medicine for this forward group? We need to get some of our identity back in our forward lines.

 

[britdevil]

I miss Zetterlund, but I doubt he’d be getting the type of opportunity that he’s getting in SJ with us. Could we use him in the bottom 6 right now though? Hell yeah. Taking him over Holtz was a solid move on Grier’s part.

I used to think the same... but... It's not like Meier is forcing his way into an opportunity here either. He started pre-season on the first line and PP1 and over time has now slipped to 3rd line and PP2. Awful.

Fabian Zetterlund Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Title | Hockey-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Fabian Zetterlund. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

Timo Meier Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Title | Hockey-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Timo Meier. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

Looks like they are getting similar usage. ATOI around 17mins, 2nd unit PP, 3rd line deployment.

I still make that trade as Timo is a far superior player (at least in theory!), but you look at those above links and it becomes... muddy.

For the folks who have watched Grits closely. How is his skating and all around game? I know he has a good shot and can pot goals in many different ways. But will his arrival next season be a much needed moment for this forward group?

I will simply say this. There is a GULF in talent between the KHL and NHL.

The NHL has become so ridiculously light years ahead of every other professional league on the planet.

Take that for what you will.

 

[Devs3cups]

I need a trade now.

 

[Triumph]

Lazar was a mediocre to bad add in the first place, he was a 13th forward in the 2023 playoffs and got thrusted into regular duty because McLeod turned out to be a POS to everyone's nightmares. Still, it's been a year almost since McLeod has been charged, you should be able to find a 4C that's serviceable and plays a similar game to McLeod.

This is a ridiculous statement. McLeod was an entirely unique player, a guy with no hands who skated really well, played physical, and could pass the puck reasonably well also. You can find players with some similarities to McLeod but especially by 2022-23, he was a player with no equivalent.

Finding a 4C is hard because it costs a lot of money. 4th line centers make $2M and up on the UFA market. When healthy, the Devils have 1 ELC and one minimum salary player on the roster - it's otherwise a pretty pricey lot. This past summer, Lafferty and Stenlund signed for 2M AAV, Lizotte for 1.75M.

Haula is whatever, he played tremendous in 2022/2023 and was great in the playoffs. Haula's issue has always been consistency and why he's been on so many teams since he broke in with the Wild. I don't get too mad at Fitz for that, there's nothing he can do logically besides maybe giving Haula a lesser term for a year but that's absurd nitpicking. Cotter is an ok add but he's still beyond mediocre, a team like Vegas getting rid of a guy like that is red flags in itself. His shooting bender was masking his abysmal defensive game and we're seeing it now. Bastian shouldn't have been re-upped. Tatar is ok, but again, he seems like he's virtually done and you can't bank him on him in the playoffs as his career as shown. The bottom 6 is just a mish-mash of garbage in hoping it'll work magically.

Cotter is fine, a team like Vegas was trying to upgrade on him and they failed to do so, Holtz is a bust. He's a perfect 4th line LW, plays physical, instant offense, he is poor defensively.

Haula's purported inconsistency has nothing to do with what's going on now, he's probably just finished. He was a middle six center/winger who can play every situation, teams just wanted more out of him.

Which is why it makes even more frustrating because the core is most likely not the issue and it'll get blamed if they somehow come up short. And if it's so easy to build a bottom 6, why has it taken Fitz most of his GMing tenure to figure it out? They're wasting their core's primes years because the GM is a wishy washy moron on that side.

Huh? He lost the centerpiece of his 'bottom 6' and the Devils haven't graduated a forward to the NHL who has stuck around since Mercer, which was 4 years ago. That's why it's been hard. It isn't easy to build if you don't have any pieces at all when you are beginning.

 

[RSeen]

Seravelli lists JJ Peterka on his trade board - I don't buy it. He had 25 EV goals last year and 14 this year and is only becoming more productive overall.

I'd give up a ton for him but I don't actually believe he is available.

 

[Better Call Sal]

Seravelli lists JJ Peterka on his trade board - I don't buy it. He had 25 EV goals last year and 14 this year and is only becoming more productive overall.

I'd give up a ton for him but I don't actually believe he is available.

Seravalli put Bratt on his trade board two years ago if I'm not mistaken. Likely just because of the contract stuff beforehand, but it was when we were already ticketed for the playoffs.

He's certainly not a guy I'd deem reliable when it comes to this time of year.

 

[Lou Bloom]

Holtz was cooked once Jack decided he wanted to become Ovechkin, the selection was made on the basis of the first 2 years of Jack's career where his shot was a peashooter. Was it smart in totality making a top 10 pick on that basis? No, but I don't blame Holtz being the pick. I wanted Rossi/Perfetti that draft but it's not his biggest issue. I think Mercer is arguably fine right now, he just thinks he's better than he is, he's also playing for a future contract. Him holding out was the dumbest thing he could've done because he's not a guy who can miss time and not miss a beat.

But that's also what I'm alluding to, what makes you think that he'll be able to fix what he's created? That's all I'm saying, he's had enough time to build a bottom 6. He's built a very good backend with less time and a bottom 6 is not all that hard to create considering he had some decent pieces there to build with to begin with. It's his over reactionary nature that has me worried, he swings too hard to the opposing side based on a season. That's not how a good GM operates.



I don't think playoffs are in question, I just worry if Fitz handicaps this team's ceiling with the consistent overreactions he has. He's a very short sighted GM with how his moves are made.

He built a good bottom 6 in 2022-2023. Betting on McLeod, Mercer, Holtz and Haula post 2022-2023 season wasn’t the worst decision, the problem was that all those decisions completely blew up immediately the following season with McLeod out of the NHL, Haula immediately showing signs of decline, Mercer regressing and Holtz becoming a bust.

He had to do a complete 180 on the forward depth due to all these circumstances and we’ve seen the start of him re-working the bottom 6 with Noesen signing and brining in Cotter. The problem was they weren’t going to move off from Mercer off of one bad season and Haula was already signed for two more seasons and with the defense and goaltending a higher priority he had little ability to make sweeping changes to the forward group. Now that the defense and goaltending are solidified we’ll see if he can make the necessary changes to improve the forward group. But he should at least be given some bit of leeway before fans start coming with their pitchforks.

 

[Zacha37]

Seravalli put Bratt on his trade board two years ago if I'm not mistaken. Likely just because of the contract stuff beforehand, but it was when we were already ticketed for the playoffs.

He's certainly not a guy I'd deem reliable when it comes to this time of year.

He actually did explain his rationale on this. Might be a similar situation where Buffalo is just “testing the waters”.

 

[JK3]

As crappy as this run has been since the new year I doubt they're going to miss the playoffs. Down the stretch it would be really, really hard for three teams to make up 8 points for them to all climb over us.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I would love to have Peterka but can't see Buffalo actually moving him.

 

[AfroThunder396]

If we could find a way to swing Nemec+ for Peterka I'd be ecstatic. Adams might be stupid enough to go for it.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

This is a ridiculous statement. McLeod was an entirely unique player, a guy with no hands who skated really well, played physical, and could pass the puck reasonably well also. You can find players with some similarities to McLeod but especially by 2022-23, he was a player with no equivalent.

Finding a 4C is hard because it costs a lot of money. 4th line centers make $2M and up on the UFA market. When healthy, the Devils have 1 ELC and one minimum salary player on the roster - it's otherwise a pretty pricey lot. This past summer, Lafferty and Stenlund signed for 2M AAV, Lizotte for 1.75M.



Cotter is fine, a team like Vegas was trying to upgrade on him and they failed to do so, Holtz is a bust. He's a perfect 4th line LW, plays physical, instant offense, he is poor defensively.

Haula's purported inconsistency has nothing to do with what's going on now, he's probably just finished. He was a middle six center/winger who can play every situation, teams just wanted more out of him.



Huh? He lost the centerpiece of his 'bottom 6' and the Devils haven't graduated a forward to the NHL who has stuck around since Mercer, which was 4 years ago. That's why it's been hard. It isn't easy to build if you don't have any pieces at all when you are beginning.

Bastian + MacDermid make up that amount quite easily, I know who I would pick. And no it's not a ridiculous statement. Michael McLeods are a dime or dozen in this f***ing league, thinking otherwise is absolutely moronic. He could've done something like sign Pius Suter in 2023 and it would've bumped Haula down to 4C or even back to the wing until the McLeod situation sorted itself. McLeod was a face-off specialist who suddenly got hot towards the end of his NHL stint because he knew judgement day was coming, not some godly center that was irreplaceable. Why are suddenly re-writing the book on Michael McLeod? Beyond baffling. And lmao, "plays physical", this team doesn't need physical players for the sake of being physical when they were at their best. They were at the best when they could roll 4 lines and skate teams into the dirt with this core. I'm so over this fanbase's boner about grit because the Panthers won a Cup doing it without realizing the amount of speed/skill they have as well.

Haula, again, is whatever. He's bad but he's been this way his entire career, assuming that Haula would stay 22-23 Erik Haula was a mistake in itself when he's shown throughout his career that's simply not a consistent player after the first season on a team. He scored 29 for Vegas their first year and was off the roster within the next 2. That's my point with him.

 

[Camille the Eel]

I hate these repeated three day spaces between games on a western trip. There couldn't be anything harder as far as being sharp with zone exits and crisp tape to tape passing because no matter how much you practice only game competition keeps you really sharp.

As to the debate whether we should be "worried" about making the playoffs, that too is a product of this dead time just a few days after the 4 nations. It's one game at a time now and up to us to win them. If we win our games there's nothing to worry about. If we lose a pile of them like last year, then that's on us. As I said above, it's totally in our own. hands now. We need help from no one but have to raise the level of our play.

Which is hard to do when you play like once in 5 days with a recent 4 nations break also in the background.

Also as to Haula being "cooked" or "done." Is it possible he had a high ankle sprain and is still being limited by it and simply played through it for Finland and is playing through it still now? I wouldn't be so quick to write him off. Time will tell.

 

[RSeen]

If we could find a way to swing Nemec+ for Peterka I'd be ecstatic. Adams might be stupid enough to go for it.

Given their blue line depth...I do not see it. Maybe if they moved Bryam in a separate deal but regardless still don't see it as likely.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

He built a good bottom 6 in 2022-2023. Betting on McLeod, Mercer, Holtz and Haula post 2022-2023 season wasn’t the worst decision, the problem was that all those decisions completely blew up immediately the following season with McLeod out of the NHL, Haula immediately showing signs of decline, Mercer regressing and Holtz becoming a bust.

He had to do a complete 180 on the forward depth due to all these circumstances and we’ve seen the start of him re-working the bottom 6 with Noesen signing and brining in Cotter. The problem was they weren’t going to move off from Mercer off of one bad season and Haula was already signed for two more seasons and with the defense and goaltending a higher priority he had little ability to make sweeping changes to the forward group. Now that the defense and goaltending are solidified we’ll see if he can make the necessary changes to improve the forward group. But he should at least be given some bit of leeway before fans start coming with their pitchforks.

Holtz was never going to work in the bottom 6, McLeod, he should've had a legit option, (I listed Pius Suter above in the same offseason signing for 1.6Mx2 with VAN as an example) instead of assuming McLeod was innocent. Haula is whatever, he's done this his whole career and it's why he's never latched on fully somewhere in his career. Mercer, I don't blame him either it seems like a player problem. So he's batting 50% there what he could've done better. He probably should've traded Holtz earlier once Jack developed a shot and his pathway to top 6 mins was destroyed and he should've done better with the McLeod situation protecting this team down the middle.

 

[New Jerseys Devil]

Disagree on Silayev, he'll be a good player for this team. Holtz sucked because of Jack developing a shot, I'm tired of people using hindsight with Holtz to the umpteenth degree, he was the right pick at the time. Shakir netted us Meier, so don't see how that was a bad pick. Nemec, sure, but it was reported that he wanted to trade that pick for Matthew Tkachuk. That was also the time Severson was a year away from UFA and we had no clue what his future had in store, taking a RHD prospect was fine as insurance for Severson. We had McLeod/Boqvist/other guys who could've played 3C so taking Wright or Cooley was whatever. Agree on the last point though

How was Holtz the right pick at the time but Nemec wasnt?

 

[MartyOwns]

the best part about this recent website "upgrade" is that i don't post as often- but to pass the time, i do read you nerds arguing about everything with each other, and i realize i definitely don't miss participating in that. anyway, lgd. don't sell the farm to try and get past the canes.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

How was Holtz the right pick at the time but Nemec wasnt?

I don't think that's what my post said? I said Nemec was fine with the understanding that Severson might walk and it was also pre them trading for Marino that same summer. Holtz was taken because they wanted a shooter next to Jack because Jack was abysmal ass cheeks as a shooter his first 2 years and then he developed a shot that was elite that made Holtz utterly useless next to him.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

If we could find a way to swing Nemec+ for Peterka I'd be ecstatic. Adams might be stupid enough to go for it.

Tremendous move if they could pull it off but ya would need Adams to go full Chiareilli for that.

 

[theoptimist]

Bastian + MacDermid make up that amount quite easily, I know who I would pick. And no it's not a ridiculous statement. Michael McLeods are a dime or dozen in this f***ing league, thinking otherwise is absolutely moronic. He could've done something like sign Pius Suter in 2023 and it would've bumped Haula down to 4C or even back to the wing until the McLeod situation sorted itself. McLeod was a face-off specialist who suddenly got hot towards the end of his NHL stint because he knew judgement day was coming, not some godly center that was irreplaceable. Why are suddenly re-writing the book on Michael McLeod? Beyond baffling. And lmao, "plays physical", this team doesn't need physical players for the sake of being physical when they were at their best. They were at the best when they could roll 4 lines and skate teams into the dirt with this core. I'm so over this fanbase's boner about grit because the Panthers won a Cup doing it without realizing the amount of speed/skill they have as well.

Haula, again, is whatever. He's bad but he's been this way his entire career, assuming that Haula would stay 22-23 Erik Haula was a mistake in itself when he's shown throughout his career that's simply not a consistent player after the first season on a team. He scored 29 for Vegas their first year and was off the roster within the next 2. That's my point with him.

He played hard "because he knew judgement day was coming"? I might have missed this -- do you have a link to the story?

Do you remember when we were getting rag dolled the first two games against the Rangers in 2023? You remember who dropped the gloves? Do you remember who fought Brendan Schneider? Do you remember who fought Barclay Goodrow? If fighting to you is irrelevant, I can understand, but strength and discipline are valued around the league. I agree that McLeod had work to do offensively, but it hurts to see folks denigrate the player like he wasn't a key part of 22-23.

"Re-writing the book" is ironic. It'll cost Fitz his job.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Part of the reason I'm less worried about falling off is that even if we lose, we're pretty good at getting loser points. Last year we only lost in regulation and never went to OT/SO, lack of loser points really killed us.

If we win half of our games and take a quarter of our losses into overtime we'll be fine. 22 games left. 11-8-3 would bring us to 95 points which should be safe. CBJ would need 29 of their remaining 42 points, which is a .690 pts% pace to pass us. NYR would 34 of 44 remaining points need a .729% pace.

The idea of losing 5 straight in regulation seems very unlikely to me, and that's about what it would take for NYR or CBJ to catch up. Especially with Markstrom coming back and Jack's ability to go sicko mode and win a game by himself. A betting man would put money on NJ.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

McLeod was beyond mediocre in the 2023 playoffs, he had a few goals here and there and the obvious big one in Game 7 but the idea that he was the center version of Randy McKay reincarnated is beyond laughable. The fourth line got absolutely smoked in the Carolina series

 

[Triumph]

Bastian + MacDermid make up that amount quite easily, I know who I would pick. And no it's not a ridiculous statement. Michael McLeods are a dime a dozen in this f***ing league, thinking otherwise is absolutely moronic.

Players who have as much total value as McLeod, absolutely. Players with his player profile, big, physical, fast, good passer, lousy shooter, great at zone entries, not great at creating offense, great at faceoffs - there's probably none. There are rare skillsets which are not necessarily all that valuable.

MacDermid is whatever, obviously I don't like him, but I do like Bastian and I don't think it's that easy to find players like him, which we will find out after this offseason, presumably.

He could've done something like sign Pius Suter in 2023 and it would've bumped Haula down to 4C or even back to the wing until the McLeod situation sorted itself. McLeod was a face-off specialist who suddenly got hot towards the end of his NHL stint because he knew judgement day was coming, not some godly center that was irreplaceable. Why are suddenly re-writing the book on Michael McLeod? Beyond baffling.

They would've had to cut ties with McLeod altogether to sign Suter, which obviously would've been the right decision in hindsight, but I do not see why Suter would sign here even if they had done that. One of the things that people don't seem to do much on this board is think about why a player might make a decision. Suter looks at the depth chart with Hischier, Hughes, and Haula - where does he see himself? 3rd on that list while he's making half the money as the guy you're putting 4th? Delusional.

You're projecting that statement on to McLeod - we'll never know why he suddenly improved in 2022. Was Blake Coleman under some pending indictment in 2018 when he suddenly became a trusted scorer? Guys figure the league out.

And lmao, "plays physical", this team doesn't need physical players for the sake of being physical when they were at their best. They were at the best when they could roll 4 lines and skate teams into the dirt with this core. I'm so over this fanbase's boner about grit because the Panthers won a Cup doing it without realizing the amount of speed/skill they have as well.

McLeod was big and physical. His player type is very much suited for playoff hockey. You are projecting a statement on to me - I do think the Devils needed more players who work off of forechecking/net front, but physicality for its own sake can get lost.

Haula, again, is whatever. He's bad but he's been this way his entire career, assuming that Haula would stay 22-23 Erik Haula was a mistake in itself when he's shown throughout his career that's simply not a consistent player after the first season on a team. He scored 29 for Vegas their first year and was off the roster within the next 2. That's my point with him.

He has not been this way his entire career. He's finished now. What he's doing now has nothing to do with the rest of his career.