Salary Cap: 2020-21 Lightning Roster Discussion | Part 2

[HoseEmDown]

I'd trade Stamkos way before I consider trading Killorn. We won the Cup without Stamkos so we can easily do it again. I don't think we can win it without Killorn.

 

[DFC]

If it's been discussed by the two most trusted guys on the two biggest networks, then we can be pretty sure that idea has actually been batted around. If they talked to Stamkos, it was probably more than that.

 

[Todd1a]

I'd trade Stamkos way before I consider trading Killorn. We won the Cup without Stamkos so we can easily do it again. I don't think we can win it without Killorn.

No way if stamkos is healthy and can play you keep him and dump killorn and johnson

 

[Vasilevskiy]

No way if stamkos is healthy and can play you keep him and dump killorn and johnson

you got hosed

 

[Major4Boarding]

How are we buying Johnson out? The buyout window is over. The best we could do is a trade probably with retention which is better than a buyout anyway.

See, I wouldn't get hung up outright on there not being a buyout either. I agree the next option for Brisebois is to do anywhere between a 20%-40%, maybe even 50% retained trade with "sweetener". If the retention rate keeps going up (as in 30%, 35%-40%, etc up to 50%) the "sweetener" goes from Sugar, to Stevia, to Sweet'N Low, to "Hell No!"

Sure a buyout's the nuclear last option because you'd hate like hell to carry mid-ranged dead cap space then 4 additional years of $1.49M dead cap. But you may just have to because when all other "assets" have been expended, that dead cap becomes the bitter-pill "asset" you're left with. A shitty way of kicking he can down the road. Not to mention a shitty way to do Tyler Johnson while you're at it because of what you have to do to get to that buyout option (hoping that last part staves off an angry uber-fan response to the other things I'm saying)

Try to follow along folks. I apologize. I know this is long, winding, and wordy, etc. Potentially even factually wrong.

Ironically, I'm going to use Bogo as an example of how this option, no matter how outlandish people seem to think it is, is still an option. A shitty one, but one nonetheless.

Bogosian was put on unconditional waivers by the Sabres on Feb 21st with a buyout forthcoming because he refused to report to Rochester after previously being waived (and cleared). So that happened outside of the post-Cup Buyout window normally allowed. You'd hate to see it potentially come to this because despite TJ's time here and a very likeable guy, that this option would be exercised.

So if you all follow along here and see the parallels between what happened to Bogo and TJ.

Both were waived. Bogo refused to report. He was suspended Feb 10th I believe for failing to report. Here's a direct portion of the write up TSN did about it (still drawing parallels)

Dreger notes the Sabres tried to trade Bogosian and were willing to retain 50 per cent of his $5.143 million cap hit before making their decision Friday. TSN Hockey Insider Pierre LeBrun noted the Toronto Maple Leafs could have interest in Bogosian on the free-agent market if he clears unconditional waivers.

Weird how the contract amounts are nearly the same (albeit one year vs. four), went unclaimed on Waivers, retention possibilities, and how he still ended up with the Leafs. Anyway...

TJ has been waived. Meaning, Brisebois has now put it in TJ's camp to report or not to report. So "right now", the only cap relief being realized at the moment is just a tad over $1M. If he can't pull off a trade this may trigger the next option. If TJ doesn't report, that's where things get sticky and messy and the ugly side of business rears its head. This will all be about timing as well because the time to report/not report is in line with being cap compliant (end of whenever the last day of training camp will be this coming season).

Then you suspend him with the motion towards unconditional buyout. Just like what happened to Bogosian.

I mean, I'm just spelling out the really-really last resort option here could be. Ideally, you think that Brisebois is still working the % retained and what sweetener goes along with it option. Hell, maybe he's having to mull over a Killorn+retention option additionally as well. Keeping say, somewhere around $3.0M-$4.725M on the books for the lives of the two contracts (depending on the retention %) to free up anywhere between $4.725M to $7.55M.

Just my thoughts. Could be, and probably, wrong.

 

[Fabiobest]

If it's been discussed by the two most trusted guys on the two biggest networks, then we can be pretty sure that idea has actually been batted around. If they talked to Stamkos, it was probably more than that.

If you knew how many bull* the biggest italian networks say every single day, you'd be shocked.
They miss also one of the greatest trade in the last 50 years, as Ronaldo to Juventus was.

PS: Friedman said Stamkos picked Vegas as a good team. How many times did Vegas try to acquire Stammer, during the last weeks? xD xD And Stammer would be a huge fit for them, considering they don't have an elite scorer/sniper in their roster.
PS 2.0: he said: "You know the one thing about Stamkos this year is his salary is only a million dollars." This year? Where were you, Mr. Friedman, during the last 5 years? Look at capfriendly...every single season, since the 2016-17 one, Stammer earned 1M + the bonuses...
PS 3.0: "Most of his salary is in bonuses, and it starts to go down." False. According to capfriendly, his salary will start to go down in the 2021-22 season. Not today. Not this year.
PS 4.0: " I think Tampa would do that if they could."...I think...so it's his thought. And a thought is not a news.

 

[T REX]

Are we allowed to make a second deal with the Devil?

 

[These Are The Days]

Are we allowed to make a second deal with the Devil?

New Jersey or Beelzebub?? I can neither confirm or deny I am in favor of either or both if it means another Cup

 

[8999]

Think the Stamkos news is more than about just clearing enough room to re-sign the RFAs. JBB could have just as easily included Stamkos in the list of untouchables announced to the other teams, but he didn't. Not sure that trading Stamkos is necessarily even JBB's 'last resort' solution, especially if it would bring in the best return.

JBB appears to be following an aggressive approach to be a contender both now and in the future without missing a beat, by putting emotions aside and ruthlessly shedding players deemed replaceable by younger and cheaper options.

If Stamkos were a UFA right now, think JBB might easily move on. If Stamkos did not have a NMC, he might have been dealt already, even without 'cap hell' issues.

 

[Todd1a]

Think the Stamkos news is more than about just clearing enough room to re-sign the RFAs. JBB could have just as easily included Stamkos in the list of untouchables announced to the other teams, but he didn't. Not sure that trading Stamkos is necessarily even JBB's 'last resort' solution, especially if it would bring in the best return.

JBB appears to be following an aggressive approach to be a contender both now and in the future without missing a beat, by putting emotions aside and ruthlessly shedding players deemed replaceable by younger and cheaper options.

If Stamkos were a UFA right now, think JBB might easily move on. If Stamkos did not have a NMC, he might have been dealt already, even without 'cap hell' issues.

ya but stamkos is not waiving for bottom feeders like the kings, redwings or Ottawa? Where would he go that has cap space and that team is a contender?

 

[8999]

ya but stamkos is not waiving for bottom feeders like the kings, redwings or Ottawa? Where would he go that has cap space and that team is a contender?

Not saying there's a specific deal to be made right now but I think JBB considers him expendable going forward and is strongly signaling this to Stamkos and to the rest of the league. So I don't think this story ends even if TB manages to clear space by moving Johnson, Killorn, etc.

Right now, it would probably require a team that wants Stamkos so much that they do a Vegas and practically give away good players (like Schmidt) to other teams just to make space (for Pietrangelo).

 

[Todd1a]

Not saying there's a specific deal to be made right now but I think JBB considers him expendable going forward and is strongly signaling this to Stamkos and to the rest of the league. So I don't think this story ends even if TB manages to clear space by moving Johnson, Killorn, etc.

Right now, it would probably require a team that wants Stamkos so much that they do a Vegas and practically give away good players (like Schmidt) to other teams just to make space (for Pietrangelo).

I think before they sign Point to his next deal they will have to get stamkos off the books by then

 

[8999]

I think before they sign Point to his next deal they will have to get stamkos off the books by then

Stamkos would still be on the books when the bridge deals that everyone is hoping these RFAs sign would expire as well.

 

[Todd1a]

Stamkos would still be on the books when the bridge deals that everyone is hoping these RFAs sign would expire as well.

correct that is why I'm saying he is gonna have to be traded before points new deal kicks in

 

[8999]

correct that is why I'm saying he is gonna have to be traded before points new deal kicks in

Right and it's not exactly a ton of time and it's unlikely that the salary cap will be vastly different by then. My original point was that a Stamkos trade is not an outlandish suggestion, so I think we're already in agreement unlike some of the other posters in this thread.

As far as the return, it would hopefully be picks and/or prospects although I don't think JBB can afford to be too picky if Stamkos provides a very short list of teams for which he'd waive his NMC.

 

[Todd1a]

Right and it's not exactly a ton of time and it's unlikely that the salary cap will be vastly different by then. My original point was that a Stamkos trade is not an outlandish suggestion, so I think we're already in agreement unlike some of the other posters in this thread.

As far as the return, it would hopefully be picks and/or prospects although I don't think JBB can afford to be too picky if Stamkos provides a very short list of teams for which he'd waive his NMC.

I still would not move stamkos I'd pony up and move Johnson and then move killorn! We can still have two more good runs at the cup the next two years only losing killer and Johnson!

 

[OurlordAndSaviorKuch]

I would actually rage if we traded Stamkos right after winning the cup.

 

[Todd1a]

I would actually rage if we traded Stamkos right after winning the cup.

crazy talk in here he is over a 1 point per game player still

 

[HoseEmDown]

See, I wouldn't get hung up outright on there not being a buyout either. I agree the next option for Brisebois is to do anywhere between a 20%-40%, maybe even 50% retained trade with "sweetener". If the retention rate keeps going up (as in 30%, 35%-40%, etc up to 50%) the "sweetener" goes from Sugar, to Stevia, to Sweet'N Low, to "Hell No!"

Sure a buyout's the nuclear last option because you'd hate like hell to carry mid-ranged dead cap space then 4 additional years of $1.49M dead cap. But you may just have to because when all other "assets" have been expended, that dead cap becomes the bitter-pill "asset" you're left with. A shitty way of kicking he can down the road. Not to mention a shitty way to do Tyler Johnson while you're at it because of what you have to do to get to that buyout option (hoping that last part staves off an angry uber-fan response to the other things I'm saying)

Try to follow along folks. I apologize. I know this is long, winding, and wordy, etc. Potentially even factually wrong.

Ironically, I'm going to use Bogo as an example of how this option, no matter how outlandish people seem to think it is, is still an option. A shitty one, but one nonetheless.

Bogosian was put on unconditional waivers by the Sabres on Feb 21st with a buyout forthcoming because he refused to report to Rochester after previously being waived (and cleared). So that happened outside of the post-Cup Buyout window normally allowed. You'd hate to see it potentially come to this because despite TJ's time here and a very likeable guy, that this option would be exercised.

So if you all follow along here and see the parallels between what happened to Bogo and TJ.

Both were waived. Bogo refused to report. He was suspended Feb 10th I believe for failing to report. Here's a direct portion of the write up TSN did about it (still drawing parallels)



Weird how the contract amounts are nearly the same (albeit one year vs. four), went unclaimed on Waivers, retention possibilities, and how he still ended up with the Leafs. Anyway...

TJ has been waived. Meaning, Brisebois has now put it in TJ's camp to report or not to report. So "right now", the only cap relief being realized at the moment is just a tad over $1M. If he can't pull off a trade this may trigger the next option. If TJ doesn't report, that's where things get sticky and messy and the ugly side of business rears its head. This will all be about timing as well because the time to report/not report is in line with being cap compliant (end of whenever the last day of training camp will be this coming season).

Then you suspend him with the motion towards unconditional buyout. Just like what happened to Bogosian.

I mean, I'm just spelling out the really-really last resort option here could be. Ideally, you think that Brisebois is still working the % retained and what sweetener goes along with it option. Hell, maybe he's having to mull over a Killorn+retention option additionally as well. Keeping say, somewhere around $3.0M-$4.725M on the books for the lives of the two contracts (depending on the retention %) to free up anywhere between $4.725M to $7.55M.

Just my thoughts. Could be, and probably, wrong.

I've mentioned all these things but were told it wasn't going to happen. I brought up the suspending Johnson if he fails to report to Syracuse but all I get is that he'll never actually be sent to Syracuse or there's no way he's walking away from his contract. The only issue with the Bogosian and Johnson comparison is that Bogosian was to be a UFA in a few months so having his contract terminated only cost a small amount. Johnson with 17M left is forfeiting a huge amount of money which is where I think he'll ride the bus. But I think it won't come to that as they'll retain enough to keep the sweetener down and open enough space to get the signings done.

 

[DFC]

If you knew how many bull* the biggest italian networks say every single day, you'd be shocked.
They miss also one of the greatest trade in the last 50 years, as Ronaldo to Juventus was.

PS: Friedman said Stamkos picked Vegas as a good team. How many times did Vegas try to acquire Stammer, during the last weeks? xD xD And Stammer would be a huge fit for them, considering they don't have an elite scorer/sniper in their roster.
PS 2.0: he said: "You know the one thing about Stamkos this year is his salary is only a million dollars." This year? Where were you, Mr. Friedman, during the last 5 years? Look at capfriendly...every single season, since the 2016-17 one, Stammer earned 1M + the bonuses...
PS 3.0: "Most of his salary is in bonuses, and it starts to go down." False. According to capfriendly, his salary will start to go down in the 2021-22 season. Not today. Not this year.
PS 4.0: " I think Tampa would do that if they could."...I think...so it's his thought. And a thought is not a news.

Why did JBB leave Stamkos off the untouchable list? To insult him?

I think it's more likely there was a plausible trade scenario.

 

[The Gongshow]

I think before they sign Point to his next deal they will have to get stamkos off the books by then

No need, Palat comes off the books when its time Point needs a raise. He's covered

 

[Fabiobest]

Why did JBB leave Stamkos off the untouchable list? To insult him?

I think it's more likely there was a plausible trade scenario.

You're assuming that Stammer is not untouchable for real. So, you're assuming Friedman is right.
I'm saying the opposite. I'm saying it's just a noise...

 

[PJ817]

crazy talk in here he is over a 1 point per game player still

in less than 3 minutes

 

[JoVel]

You're assuming that Stammer is not untouchable for real. So, you're assuming Friedman is right.
I'm saying the opposite. I'm saying it's just a noise...

Stamkos not being untouchable originally came from McKenzie. He's the most reliable insider out there.

 

[Fabiobest]

Stamkos not being untouchable originally came from McKenzie. He's the most reliable insider out there.

Yes, I know, you're right. He's the best source.
But considering also that the best soccer sources in the world (not only in Italy) missed the biggest trade of the last 5-6 years (Ronaldo to Juventus), I'm far from sure that the insiders are ALWAYS right.