Salary Cap: 2020-21 Lightning Roster Discussion | Part 2

[YayHockeysBack]

Probably you saw also many english mistakes in my post xD xD xD xD xD

Much, much better than my Italian. As much as I remember, il mio Italiano fa schifo.

 

[Fabiobest]

Much, much better than my Italian. As much as I remember, il mio Italiano fa schifo.

Your italian sentence is right So, don't underestimate yourself!

 

[Steazy Doo]

I listened to some of that Erlendsson interview with Stammer. Sounds to me like he has no intention on going anywhere. I also don't think he took the whole untouchable list thing to heart.

 

[HoseEmDown]

There's still cap hits for the players that replace Gourde/Johnson/Killorn/Palat and Point's raise, for starters. And this would be while filling virtually all other roster spots with minimal salaries, which I don't think would be Plan A for JBB.

This season if we move Johnson he should be replaced by Volkov or Joseph on the 3rd line and you move Gourde or Coleman to the 2nd. You could give Barre-Boulet a look on the 2nd to keep the 3rd line intact. If we move Killorn as well then we give Barre-Boulet a 2nd line spot for sure. Those guys are all on cheap deals and even if they breakout i don't think it'll be enough to warrant a big raise so they'll be back the following year. Next offseason Johnson or Killorn should be gone and maybe both are with the possibility that Palat or Gourde go in the expansion draft. We have Raddysh and Katchouk finishing their ELC so should be able to challenge a top 9 spot, hopefully Barre-Boulet showed he is capable as well as one of Volkov or Joseph. The year after that depending on development we have Fortier, Cajkovic, Guttman, Walker and Groshev as guys who've had at least one season of pro experience and could make the team. Depending on how much we pay some people we could look to bring Coleman or Palat back if it's cheap. We will have a lot kids in the lineup but will still have Point, Kucherov, Cirelli and Stamkos to insulate them a bit. We could also make a few trades or signings in that time.

 

[Zwui21]

I'd trade Stamkos way before I consider trading Killorn. We won the Cup without Stamkos so we can easily do it again. I don't think we can win it without Killorn.

Oh boy...

 

[Flat Ronnie]

Oh boy...

Hose.....d

 

[jfc64]

Here's my view of the Lightning!

You won the Stanley Cup without Steven Stamkos! You can afford to lose some and still be pretty good. But what to lose?

Shattenkirk and Bogosian solidified defense and must now be replaced by Coburn, Foote and Shenn etc. Sergachev extra valuable.

Offense is deep. No lost players here. Stamkos enters. Cirelli who had a great cup run might have great trade value. Offense as potent as last playoffs.

If Sergachev and Cirelli is traded an already good defensemen on ELC would be prefered. Also one who doesn't command a big raise next year. Evan Bouchard might be a gamble that must be done. Other trade options: Kings' Mikey Anderson. Important to keep the defense core intact.

 

[Flat Ronnie]

Bolts were the best team in the league in the playoffs. I wouldnt say otherwise.

However, I think they caught a bit of a break with the teams they played. What I mean is, we got all defensive oriented teams sans Boston. If we would have run into Wash, Philly, Vegas or Colorado we might have been in trouble without Stamkos.

There were stretches where everything he thrives at we sucked doing: faceoffs, PPs, 2nd line and 5v5 scoring. Our PP get hot at the right time in the finals but there were LONG stretches where it was awful. Like 1-16 awful.

So before we just dump the best goal scorer and threat onbour team, we might want to think about doing everything absolutely possible to get rid of overpaid pieces like TyJo/Killorn etc. Everything possible.

Because, yes we won it without him. No denying that. But we could have been in big trouble if we played a strong offensive team when we went dry for long stretches with no 2nd line and no scoring depth.

 

[AndreRoy]

There’s no way Stamkos gets traded. Not even if we could, and not even if it might be the right move from a purely on-ice perspective. It’s just not going to happen.

 

[DaBolts]

No way Stammer gets traded.
No way Serg gets traded.
Cirelli/Killorn, yes, but will have to be ONE HELL of an offer.

 

[AZviaNJ]

No way Stammer gets traded.
No way Serg gets traded.
Cirelli/Killorn, yes, but will have to be ONE HELL of an offer.

The offer sheet possibility exists for both Sergachev and Cirelli ,,,..which would be a nightmare for the Bolts.

 

[These Are The Days]

The offer sheet possibility exists for both Sergachev and Cirelli ,,,..which would be a nightmare for the Bolts.

Not if they don't sign it... which they've had like 5 days to do now

 

[Byrddog]

Except they don't have to increase to anywhere near that??? The replacements for Johnson and Killorn, most likely Barre-Boulet and Volkov, will also be contributing. Killorn has never had the kind of scoring pace/production before this past season, so while he could certainly replicate it, him going back to a .5 ppg, 40 point type player is just, if not more likely. Yzerman and Brisebois set up the contracts well to where the ntcs become staggered over the next 3 years, and had already been mentioned, the raises for Point and the 3 rfas are primarily covered with the moving of Johnson, Killorn and one of Palat/Gourde in the next 2-3 years. McD is also an option perhaps if he's willing to waive or if he goes in the expansion draft, depending on JBB's plans. The Lightning will either need to trade for/sign 1 or 2 more low cost depth guys, or more than likely, put the excellent scouting/drafting to more good use and have a couple of the Syracuse players make the jump in the next couple of years. The roster will look different, but losing two players in Serg and Cirelli who have arguably, a decade or more of high level play left, in order to keep 2 30+ middle 6 types is just not sound strategy.

The strategy was determined when Yzer and JBB gave those NMC and NTC's out. Relying on one or more to waive is a even more troubling strategy. They locked up those players to make a cup window was Cirelli or Sergi even on the radar to developing like they did at the time no if They had the inclination that Sergi would Mac would not have been pursued and signed to such a onerous term he has a NTC until he is 37 and while Dmen do play longer going past 35 with a NTC at that salary ensures he was here thru his best years until he becomes a 3rd pair guy or worse. They could have gapped with lessor guys until Sergi was ready. So piecing together a roster you have to do what they did. Chicago did the same thing with there window and were forced to move valuable players and now with a stagnate Cap for at least 3 years the Bolts are in a little different scenario. There are still some pretty good UFA's out there looking to land and until they do land there are no openings for Killorn or Johnson. Yesterday I counted 13 UFA's under 30 that were in the top 50 FA's unsigned. Many of them are going to have to take 3 mil or less to stay in the league. There are just a handful of teams currently with a Cap situation where they can absorb Johnny or Killer and are they on any list either player provides? Retention of 1 or 2 mil on each does not significantly help the situation. I may be totally fooled and a deal work out but Johnson clearing waivers sent a message when a team could have picked him up for nothing none bit.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Not if they don't sign it... which they've had like 5 days to do now

Doesn't mean something doesn't happen down the line. I would be surprised though. Every year hf posters mention offer sheets and we never see one. Until we see one signed, not going to worry too much about offer sheets. Worry more about who we trade and for what. However really not much to worry about. Team just won the cup and majority of that team will be back. Still have a window open.

 

[Master P]

The offer sheet possibility exists for both Sergachev and Cirelli ,,,..which would be a nightmare for the Bolts.

I mean I guess. But so many teams are strapped for cash that I don't see an offer sheet coming.

 

[These Are The Days]

Doesn't mean something doesn't happen down the line. I would be surprised though. Every year hf posters mention offer sheets and we never see one. Until we see one signed, not going to worry too much about offer sheets. Worry more about who we trade and for what. However really not much to worry about. Team just won the cup and majority of that team will be back. Still have a window open.

I'm more worried about the fact it's more likely Johnson gave the Lightning nothing to work with in a trade than an offer sheet that's gotta be signed

 

[jfc64]

No way Stammer gets traded.
No way Serg gets traded.
Cirelli/Killorn, yes, but will have to be ONE HELL of an offer.

Cirelli and Gourde, is it as likely?

If Sergachev is signed two others must go. What about Cirelli and Cernak for Evan Bouchard (three years left on ELC and maybe ready soon, a gamble.)

 

[DFC]

You're assuming that Stammer is not untouchable for real. So, you're assuming Friedman is right.
I'm saying the opposite. I'm saying it's just a noise...

It was JBB who left Stamkos off the list. So whether it's real or not, it's public.

If Friedman gives specifics, like about JBB approaching Stamkos, you can bet that it happened.

 

[Fabiobest]

It was JBB who left Stamkos off the list. So whether it's real or not, it's public.

If Friedman gives specifics, like about JBB approaching Stamkos, you can bet that it happened.

The only thing I can say right now is that we will see the end of this story very soon.

 

[T REX]

Tough decisions will be made.

lets see what happens.

 

[JTBF81]

The strategy was determined when Yzer and JBB gave those NMC and NTC's out. Relying on one or more to waive is a even more troubling strategy. They locked up those players to make a cup window was Cirelli or Sergi even on the radar to developing like they did at the time no if They had the inclination that Sergi would Mac would not have been pursued and signed to such a onerous term he has a NTC until he is 37 and while Dmen do play longer going past 35 with a NTC at that salary ensures he was here thru his best years until he becomes a 3rd pair guy or worse. They could have gapped with lessor guys until Sergi was ready. So piecing together a roster you have to do what they did. Chicago did the same thing with there window and were forced to move valuable players and now with a stagnate Cap for at least 3 years the Bolts are in a little different scenario. There are still some pretty good UFA's out there looking to land and until they do land there are no openings for Killorn or Johnson. Yesterday I counted 13 UFA's under 30 that were in the top 50 FA's unsigned. Many of them are going to have to take 3 mil or less to stay in the league. There are just a handful of teams currently with a Cap situation where they can absorb Johnny or Killer and are they on any list either player provides? Retention of 1 or 2 mil on each does not significantly help the situation. I may be totally fooled and a deal work out but Johnson clearing waivers sent a message when a team could have picked him up for nothing none bit.

Without McD they don't win the Cup, so who cares if his contract may be bad after 3 or 4 more years. There's a significant chance he gets exposed and taken by Seattle after next year.

The ntcs and nmcs were actually fine, the staggered nature of them would've worked out just fine if not for the Covid situation/flat cap. The cap will also likely raise when the Lightning need it most in 2 years, with both the expansion draft and new TV deal bolstering it.

You seem to think middling players like Johnson and Killorn are some magic key to the Lightning's success, when in reality they are easily replaced. Young talent like Cirelli, Serg and Cernak are not so easily found and, with the amount of time they have left vs Johnson and Killorn, it's quite clear who the priorities are, as JBB has made quite clear.

It's funny that you mention the Blackhawks, as they gutted their team outside of the core after the 2010 Cup win, something like 8 guys. However, they kept the core together, had young players ready to step up, made some good signings and went on to win 2 more in 5 years. Yes the problems came after 2015, but any team in the league would make that trade for 3 Cups in 6 years.

You say that most teams have no money and so it will be difficult to move Johnson, Killorn etc, but of course these teams will have an endless amount to pry away our rfas on offer sheets. Yeah that's not happening as the offer sheets would've already come and yet crickets on that front. Also, the few teams that could seriously throw a serious offer at the 3 rfas are dumpster fire franchises that these guys are likely to chuckle at the idea of leaving the Stanley Cup champion for. It will not be a quick process but JBB will figure it out. He has made it very clear that he has 0 interest in moving any of the 3 main rfas, and that is even more clear after Shattenkirk and Bogosian left.

 

[JTBF81]

Cirelli and Gourde, is it as likely?

If Sergachev is signed two others must go. What about Cirelli and Cernak for Evan Bouchard (three years left on ELC and maybe ready soon, a gamble.)

No, not a chance JBB does that, and it's not close.

 

[BowDownToVasilevskiy]

Cirelli and Gourde, is it as likely?

If Sergachev is signed two others must go. What about Cirelli and Cernak for Evan Bouchard (three years left on ELC and maybe ready soon, a gamble.)

Anthony Cirelli and Erik Cernak for Evan Bouchard is probably only worth it if we can't get Cirelli locked down. I have heard that Bouchard has gotten better, I don't know if Edmonton is interested in Cirelli as they already have their top 6 centers figured out

 

[Vasilevskiy]

Crazy thought but what if JBB goes to the RFAs and asks them to sign cheap one deals (1.25M Cernak, 1.75M Cirelli, 2M Serge) with the promise of a bigger pay next season?

This way we could do only dealing Killorn and Paquette.
We sign some forward to be the 13th man and in defense we sign someone like Del Zotto on a cheap deal. Did it with capfriendly and it works out

 

[jfc64]

Crazy thought but what if JBB goes to the RFAs and asks them to sign cheap one deals (1.25M Cernak, 1.75M Cirelli, 2M Serge) with the promise of a bigger pay next season?

You can always ask.