Salary Cap: 2020-21 Lightning Roster Discussion | Part 2

[Peacefool]

Imo, Stammer's news in only a speculation and a thought of the 2 reporters...
Before trading Stamkos, I think JFBB will add also a 1st round pick to trade Johnson...
Ok, we bought out Vinny and we traded MSL...the now the situation is really different.

i dont put attention on this Satmmer trade,i know it wont happen)

 

[Discipline]

Are there any other big UFAs that need to be signed? I saw Hall and Pietrangelo get signed.

But it's a hard year with the cap not going up.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

What kind of offers are Cernak/Cirelli/Sergachev getting next year in your scenario?

At least one of them needs to be bridged. Been playing around with numbers for longer term deals (4M Cernak, 5.5M Cirelli and 6.5 Serge) and that leaves very few room to complete the roster. Gourde/Palat/McDonagh would need to go in order to sign three or four players with their cap hit (I assumed Johnson is taken by Seattle in the expansion draft)

 

[AndreRoy]

why when they can select cal foote !

Because we go 4+4 and protect (assuming for the moment we are able to keep all three of our key RFAs) Point, Kucherov, Stamkos, Cirelli, Hedman, Serg, Cernak, and Foote. Barring one of our young guys surprising everybody this protects all our key players and leaves only high-priced complementary veterans and lesser quality youth to choose from.

Note that Coleman and Goodrow will both be UFAs so we can potentially re-sign them after the draft if there is mutual interest in their returning.

Looking at our roster as it currently stands and assuming for the sake of discussion that it will be identical for the expansion draft (which of course we know won’t be the case), here are the choices Seattle would have:

Palat (with one year of term)
Gourde
Killorn
Johnson
Maroon
Stephens
McDonagh
(Whoever we get to fulfill the goalie requirement)

Then there’s guys like Volkov and Joseph (assuming they’re re-signed this offseason), along with AHL players who as of this moment have yet to make their NHL debuts.

While some of them would be a shame to lose, I think it’s clear that none of the players we’d be making available are indispensable or would sink the team with their loss.

 

[Todd1a]

 

[Vasilevskiy]

Dadonov goes to the Sens.

 

[The Gongshow]

We're boned

 

[The Gongshow]

I think the longer this goes on the worse it gets.

Teams are using and running out of their own cap space and dont and wont be able to help us

Our RFAs might be forced to sign an offer sheet because Tampa simply cant offer them anything. I get loyalty but they team wont even have cap space next year either for them all regardless since they'll be in the same situation of no one wanting Killorn or johnson and theres no guarantees Seattle even takes one of them

 

[The Gongshow]

I think we need to start accepting we're losing Cirelli and Cernak and rolling with Killer (who's at least good on the PK, and who knows maybe he'll net 20 again) and useless Tyjo

Serg will get whatever cap we have left. 2.8 x 3...which seems to low

 

[T REX]

I was about to post...no one wants to help. We took guys under market value and the league didn't forget.

And while it was our culture...it was hated by everyone outside of Tampa.

Now we pay the price.

 

[CupsOverCash]

They're just mad we won the cup. Give em time they will come around..

 

[8999]

At least one of them needs to be bridged. Been playing around with numbers for longer term deals (4M Cernak, 5.5M Cirelli and 6.5 Serge) and that leaves very few room to complete the roster. Gourde/Palat/McDonagh would need to go in order to sign three or four players with their cap hit (I assumed Johnson is taken by Seattle in the expansion draft)

Hmm but then TB is asking Cernak/Cirelli/Sergachev to 1) give up money this year, 2) bear the risk of injury or having a down year hurt their value, 3) bear the risk of being the RFA that is let go if TB cannot keep all three (assuming the RFA agreed to these sacrifices b/c they really wanted to stay with TB); all in exchange for the 'reward' of basically getting the contracts they already should be getting, no?

More importantly, the plan still depends on Gourde/Johnson/Killorn/Palat being off the roster by next year. It's already been difficult to move anyone this year and not sure it will be any easier next year. It might be a different story if they were on contracts expiring next year and thus guaranteed to be off the books but that's hardly the case. Seattle may help with one contract but if that doesn't pan out, TB is likely in even worse shape than it is now.

I hope what you described does happen but maybe at some point JBB will switch up the strategy and try to keep the best combination of players that can realistically be kept, instead of solely focusing on keeping the 3 RFAs.

 

[Bozo Nicholson]

People love their players up until contract negotiations start. Then they're selfish pricks who only care about their own good, lol.

I'll never blame any player for wanting to get paid. At the end of the day it's their job.

Agreed, but when it's the Matthews and Marner types who hold out for excessive bucks, they come across looking like little shits.

 

[DMB06]

I just think this is bad business. If an opposing GM genuinely believes one of our players can help them, but are unwilling to make the move for no other reason than they don't want to help us, that's quite petty IMO.

Every team is going to go through a cap crunch, most teams each season actually. One day they're going to be on the other end of this and need help, what then? Everyone should ignore them too? This creates a pretty bad dynamic within the league.

It's also very reasonable to believe nobody wants Johnson/Killorn...especially Johnson. But how confident can you be in your own franchise if you're literally afraid to allow the Cup champions to keep most of their roster together? I see a lot of white flags being waived.

 

[HoseEmDown]

A Tyler Johnson buyout next season saves us 3.9M in cap. That's enough to sign Cirelli. The following year its only 2.2M but Palat is a UFA that year and we should be able to make other moves in that time.

Everyone said the Lebanc signing was a mistake for him but he just got 4.75M in this environment after a down year. Clearly it was an understanding with the GM to pay him after the discount he gave them. He will be a UFA at 28 and should be able to get another good deal then. I don't think it's out of the question we could do similar with the 3 RFA's, go on another Cup run and reevaluate the cap in a years time.

 

[JTBF81]

I think the longer this goes on the worse it gets.

Teams are using and running out of their own cap space and dont and wont be able to help us

Our RFAs might be forced to sign an offer sheet because Tampa simply cant offer them anything. I get loyalty but they team wont even have cap space next year either for them all regardless since they'll be in the same situation of no one wanting Killorn or johnson and theres no guarantees Seattle even takes one of them

At the same time, our rfas have now tasted success, and as you said, most teams are running out of cap space. The offer sheets haven't come to the three main rfas as of yet(at least nothing has been reported) and most of the teams that have space are pathetic. So I guess if offer sheets do even come, the rfas get to choose if they want to have more team success and take less money now for a year or two, or get paid more and have a very small chance of lifting the Cup again in the next few years with their new, dumpster fire franchise.

 

[Flat Ronnie]

Then make them help. Give them something they can't refuse.

At this point we either do or we don't.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

I just think this is bad business. If an opposing GM genuinely believes one of our players can help them, but are unwilling to make the move for no other reason than they don't want to help us, that's quite petty IMO.

Every team is going to go through a cap crunch, most teams each season actually. One day they're going to be on the other end of this and need help, what then? Everyone should ignore them too? This creates a pretty bad dynamic within the league.

It's also very reasonable to believe nobody wants Johnson/Killorn...especially Johnson. But how confident can you be in your own franchise if you're literally afraid to allow the Cup champions to keep most of their roster together? I see a lot of white flags being waived.

Yeah it's a lot to ask the RFAs especially with the risk of an injury which could happen.
Losing any of the three will be a problem, I guess the easiest one to replace would be Cirelli but it hurts. Maybe we could get a C prospect from other team to develop into what Cirelli is more or less?

Somebody like Newhook from Colorado (they also have cap space so it could be a fit though they have Kadri which is similar to Cirelli) or Cozens from Buffalo (I doubt they would trade him though)

 

[PJ817]

I was about to post...no one wants to help.

I ... lest I get flayed ... JBB is an ass. Sure he added pieces we needed to get over the hump & congrats to him on that (and all of us because hellllz to the yassss, we ARE the SC Freaking Champions).

However, it was NOT JBB that convinced everyone to take lesser deals than value (hi there Kuch, Vasy, Point) ... it was Yzerman.

Yzerman got things done, imo, because people know and like him. Much like in the real world: who are you likely to deal with people you like and trust? or assssssholes who think in their smug ways they're smarter than you?

I have met the man and that was my impression of him then and now. Smug douche who thinks he knows it all and can command what he wants because he's JFBB... didn't I know?!

And ya'll see what's happening in DET?! Yzerplan at work again - he gets what he wants/needs because why? People simply like and respect the guy.

 

[DFC]

If offer sheets aren't coming, I'm not sure what the league is trying to force.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Its a staring contest and we will just have to wait this out.

 

[8999]

If offer sheets aren't coming, I'm not sure what the league is trying to force.

The other GMs can out-wait JBB. Regardless of what happens with the RFAs, JBB still needs to create cap space to fill the roster by doing something... depending on what that 'something' is, it will likely be an opportunity for someone.

 

[Maddogy]

I think BriseBois' procrastination has already cost Tampa dearly. The free agency signings and recent trades have capped out most of the teams in the league. Some teams still have cap space on paper, but they can only afford to pay minimum salary/bonus to bring their roster size to the mandatory 20. Now the very few teams with cap space and meeting the roster size of 20, such as the Boston Bruins, know that it is just a matter of time for them to acquire one of Tampa's young RFA's for peanuts.

Prior to October 9, Boston and Vancouver were bidding for OEL in Arizona. Vegas and St. Louis had cap space for Alex Pietrangelo. Buffalo had yet to sign Taylor Hall. Edmonton needed a replacement for the injured Klefbom and would have preferred someone better than Tyson Barrie. Calgary had lots of cap room. Winnipeg needed a second line center. Minnesota needed a good center. I do not understand why BriseBois waited so long.

Vegas resolved their cap issue by sending Nate Schmidt and his $5.9 million cap hit to Vancouver. Why didn't BriseBois incentivize Vancouver?

 

[AZviaNJ]

Recognizing the challenge of signing all 3 RFA's, any chance JBB attempts to package Johnson and Cernak in a trade? Teams with plenty of cap space (Ott, Det, NJ??)....who would love a young talented RHD and be willing to accept TJ in order to acquire Cernak. Obviously would need to TJ's approval.

Hate to lose Cernak, but this might be an option to address 2 challenges.

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

I wonder about the wording here. I presume this means more-or-less, "We've got our own problems, sorry Julien."