Speculation: 2020-21 LA Kings News/Rumors/Roster Discussion Part II

[Bandit]

I'm still wondering why Arizona wants to get rid of Garland... Him, Keller, and Chychrun are easily their top 3 players.

When has Arizona ever kept a player that was worth a shit in the last decade? They're always building toward the middle of nowhere.

 

[deaderhead28]

Huh?

Poster was justifying Richards buyout cost still being paid cause he help earned two cups.Lombardi should've just bought Richards out...

 

[redcard]

This "forward development" discussion makes no sense to me.

Forwards drafted by the LA Kings with round

2010
2 - Toffoli
3 - Weal
6 - Kitsyn

2011
3 - Andreoff
3 - Shore
4 - Mersch
5 - Lowry
7 - Schumacher

2012
1 - Pearson
4 - Prokhorkin
6 - Hyka

2013
2 - Zykov
4 - Auger
4 - Fasching
5 - Brodzinski
7 - Kubalik

2014
1 - Kempe
3 - Amadio
6 - Marchment
6 - Mistele
7 - Watson

2015
3 - Dergachyov
4 - Wagner
5 - Schmalz

2016
5 - Eyssimont

Italics are players who never signed with the team.

 

[Kudelski37]

Poster was justifying Richards buyout cost still being paid cause he help earned two cups.Issue is the contact was signed after the cups were won and Richards was already on a decline when Lombardi decided to resign him....

Mike Richards' contract was signed while he was in Philly and started in 2008 years before coming to the Kings.

 

[Sleeping Dog]

Poster was justifying Richards buyout cost still being paid cause he help earned two cups.Issue is the contact was signed after the cups were won and Richards was already on a decline when Lombardi decided to resign him....

Decided not to buy him out, right? MR did not resign while with LA.

 

[deaderhead28]

Mike Richards' contract was signed while he was in Philly and started in 2008 years before coming to the Kings.

Yes you're right..Sorry I mixing two different conversations I am having.I got Richards and Gaborik mix up lol

 

[deaderhead28]

Decided not to buy him out, right? MR did not resign while with LA.

Yes you're correct,I am mixing two different conversations...

 

[King'sPawn]

This "forward development" discussion makes no sense to me.

Forwards drafted by the LA Kings with round

2010
2 - Toffoli
3 - Weal
6 - Kitsyn

2011
3 - Andreoff
3 - Shore
4 - Mersch
5 - Lowry
7 - Schumacher

2012
1 - Pearson
4 - Prokhorkin
6 - Hyka

2013
2 - Zykov
4 - Auger
4 - Fasching
5 - Brodzinski
7 - Kubalik

2014
1 - Kempe
3 - Amadio
6 - Marchment
6 - Mistele
7 - Watson

2015
3 - Dergachyov
4 - Wagner
5 - Schmalz

2016
5 - Eyssimont

Italics are players who never signed with the team.

What part doesn't make sense?

 

[BigKing]

Development is important, obviously, but so is just sheer talent and the Kings haven't exactly been drafting world beaters at forward. Blake, however, has been smashing forwards every time in the first round so we'll see where it goes from here.

 

[redcard]

What part doesn't make sense?

Who on that list did the kings fail to develop?

They only drafted 4 forwards in the first 2 rounds over the course of 7! years.

You said:

If Toffolli, Pearson, Kempe is the list of top-6 forwards developed in the last decade by the Kings, then the development staff isn't equipped to develop the prospects

That's 3 of the 4, the only other was Zykov who was traded after 43 games with the Reign.

There were 19 forwards drafted in the 3rd round in 2010. Of the 19, Weal is 3rd in Games Played.

Shore and Andreoff are 5th and 8th out of the 17 forwards taken in the 3rd round of 2011.

Amadio, the last pick of the 2014 3rd round, is #3 out of 14 forwards.

Wagner is 2nd amongst the 2015 4th round picks in games played.

I don't understand what more people expect out of the development staff.

 

[Fishhead]

The only player on the above list who I think of as a miss is Zykov. Pearson and Kempe were almost 2nd rounders, there really wasn't much to work with once the Kings started winning.

 

[Steve Zissou]

Hey at least we didn't draft Nikita Filatov @ 6th overall...

Poor Lumbus... always mucking everything up for their organization.

 

[Mats26]

What part doesn't make sense?

Who on that list did the kings fail to develop?

They only drafted 4 forwards in the first 2 rounds over the course of 7! years.

You said:



That's 3 of the 4, the only other was Zykov who was traded after 43 games with the Reign.

There were 19 forwards drafted in the 3rd round in 2010. Of the 19, Weal is 3rd in Games Played.

Shore and Andreoff are 5th and 8th out of the 17 forwards taken in the 3rd round of 2011.

Amadio, the last pick of the 2014 3rd round, is #3 out of 14 forwards.

Wagner is 2nd amongst the 2015 4th round picks in games played.

I don't understand what more people expect out of the development staff.

So now you are shifting the blame to Yannetti? GM philosophy?
You also conviently left out Bud Hollway and Oscar Möller that where under Nelson's program at one point.

 

[King'sPawn]

Who on that list did the kings fail to develop?

They only drafted 4 forwards in the first 2 rounds over the course of 7! years.

You said:



That's 3 of the 4, the only other was Zykov who was traded after 43 games with the Reign.

There were 19 forwards drafted in the 3rd round in 2010. Of the 19, Weal is 3rd in Games Played.

Shore and Andreoff are 5th and 8th out of the 17 forwards taken in the 3rd round of 2011.

Amadio, the last pick of the 2014 3rd round, is #3 out of 14 forwards.

Wagner is 2nd amongst the 2015 4th round picks in games played.

I don't understand what more people expect out of the development staff.

Here are the defensemen drafted by the Kings outside of the first two rounds from 2010-2019:
Jordan Spence
Kim Nousiainen
Braden Doyle
Mikey Anderson
Markus Phillips
Cole Hults
Jacob Moverare
Jacob Friend
Chaz Reddekopp
Matt Roy
Jacob Middleton
Zac Leslie
Colin Miller
Paul LaDue
Nick Ebert
Kevin Gravel

The Kings have developed at LEAST as many top-4 defenseman in the 3-7th rounds as top-6 forwards in rounds 1-2 in the past decade. They can churn out regular NHL defensemen and they don't need a top pick to do it. Why do the Kings need a top pick in order to make a top-six forward?

Which gets back to the question: is the staff not qualified, are the prospects not good enough, is the direction of the team not conducive to generating skilled prospects, or are they not given the proper tools to increase the rate of success?

 

[tbrown33]

Who actually has more to do with a prospect's development - the coaching staff or the development staff?

While the player is in college/junior/Europe?

While the player is in the AHL?

While the player is on the Kings?

Honestly, how big is Nelson Emerson's individual impact on any one player vs. a cumulative effect of the player's own skill and desire to get better, his various coaching staffs, independent skills coaches, and teammates at every level? Can anyone here even accurately say? And a million other factors (parents, fit with the team/culture, etc). Or are we just going to go in circles cherry picking names over the past 15 years to decide if Nelson Emerson knows anything about player development (it's been 15 years I imagine he knows what he's doing).

 

[tbrown33]

You also conviently left out Bud Hollway and Oscar Möller that where under Nelson's program at one point.

Talk about a bad faith argument. Wayne Simmonds was drafted, what, 11 spots after Moller? What does this prove exactly? What's "convenient" about it?

 

[Mats26]

Who actually has more to do with a prospect's development - the coaching staff or the development staff?

While the player is in college/junior/Europe?

While the player is in the AHL?

While the player is on the Kings?

Honestly, how big is Nelson Emerson's individual impact on any one player vs. a cumulative effect of the player's own skill and desire to get better, his various coaching staffs, and teammates at every level? Can anyone here even accurately say? And a million other factors (parents, fit with the team/culture, etc). Or are we just going to go in circles cherry picking names over the past 15 years to decide if Nelson Emerson knows anything about player development (it's been 15 years I imagine he knows what he's doing).

Good points, so what really is his role? He seems useless to me in this rebuild.
Wroblewski seems to be the backbone of the developement of next wave of players. No wonder why they are trying to get their prospects to play in the AHL.

 

[redcard]

So now you are shifting the blame to Yannetti? GM philosophy?
You also conviently left out Bud Hollway and Oscar Möller that where under Nelson's program at one point.

First off, I'm not shifting blame. The blame is clear, its the #1 problem with the team post cup. We traded all our draft picks. Blaming the development team for lack of forwards when they barely had any to develop is shifting blame.

And yes, Bud Hollaway (2006) and Oscar Moller (2007) aren't on my list because I didn't go back past 2010. Because if you do want to go back that far I would also include Clifford, Deslauriers, Nolan, Dowd, Simmonds, and King. All of whom far outperformed their draft position, and could be considered developed successfully. Dowd and Nolan were 7th round picks in 2009 yet they each have over 300 NHL games played and their names on the cup.

Hell, even Loktionov is 3rd in games played amongst forwards taken in the 5th round of 2008.

 

[All The Kings Men]

If I may... you need roster spots for those players to occupy in order to consider them "succesfully developed" as "top 6 players right"?

Well if you concede that Toffoli and Pearson were developed then where exactly were the "undeveloped" guys supposed to play?

from the 2010-11 season to the 2019-20 season... here's your even strength minutes per game leaders

Kopitar - 16:05
Lucic - 15:03
Smyth - 14:46
Iafallo - 14:44
Brown - 14:32
Williams 14:16
Iginla - 14:02
Carter - 13:35
Gaborik - 13:27
Kovalchuk - 13:16
Gagne - 13:15
Tofolli - 13:06

From 2010-2015 I don't think you can really make the argument that they did anything wrong... after that...

2015-2016 Kopitar, Brown, Lucic, Gaborik, Carter, Toffoli then they add Lecavalier (not top 6 I grant you but still)

2016-17 Kopitar, Brown, Carter, Toffoli, Gaborik and then they add Iginla at the end

2017-18 Kopitar/Brown have career seasons, Iafallo emerges, 70/77/73 are 4-6 in TOI

then in 2018 they add Kovalchuk and the bottom falls out...

Where exactly were these players we expected to develop supposed to get ice time?

At the very least Kopitar and Carter were never going to be supplanted by a prospect. If you concede Toffoli and Pearson (or even just Toffoli for consistencies sake) that's still 3 of 6 spots that are off the table

I reject the idea that 2010-2014 (or even 2016 really) are open for debate because the team was winning cups/contending so we're really looking at a window of 2016-2020 when the team STILL had Kopitar/Carter/Toffoli/Brown/Iafallo.

 

[kovacro]

Of we go Ghost, I’d try to get JVR… he has 2 years left at a decent cap hit and is still tough and can score

JVR cap hit is $7 million for 2 more years. Dunno if I’d term that decent. Unless there is retention by Philly (say 15% - 20%), I would pass.

I wouldn’t mind Ghost. I think change of scenery would do him well. But he’s another one where I’d look to have Philly retain some salary on any deal.

 

[All The Kings Men]

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[kovacro]

I'm still wondering why Arizona wants to get rid of Garland... Him, Keller, and Chychrun are easily their top 3 players.

Garland would be an excellent addition. Arizona likely doesn’t want to pay him the hefty raise he will be due next year.

 

[Sol]

Yeah the Kings definitely haven't really gotten any home run players from their draft picks, either the players weren't good enough or the development wasn't. It still is a point, the Kings have developed NHL players, but most of them have been filler players in the NHL. No diamond in the rough that the development was able to polish. I think it's a bit of both, but I don't see there being a reason to be overly hopeful of our development team.

 

[AzKing]

Garland would be an excellent addition. Arizona likely doesn’t want to pay him the hefty raise he will be due next year.

Garland would thrive here. He would cost a bit less than some of the bigger names.

 

[Steve Zissou]

Garland would be an excellent addition. Arizona likely doesn’t want to pay him the hefty raise he will be due next year.

While it could be a disagreement about his next contract, he's a RFA and Arizona is in better shape than the Kings with salary cap. Doesn't make any sense unless Garland is asking for the moon.