2019 Off-Season Non-Management Thread - Canucks/Boeser talking 4-5 years, $7m AAV - Kypreos)

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Did Corsi tell you this? He is a plug just like Granlund and Leivo and the majority of our middle 6 trash. Granted, he may still have a bit of untapped potential but I remain skeptical

Is Virtanen a disappointment compared to his draft position? Yes. But is he a sucky/garbage hockey player? Absolutely not.

 

[MS]

not a fan of Leivo and Pearson? That could be 35 goals next year and some size strength along the walls and in front of the net.

If Pearson is the guy we saw in garbage time this year and not the negative-value cap dump he was for two other organizations, that move looks decent and I'll give it praise. However, Jussi Jokinen racked up some points in the same situation in 2018.

Leivo looked decent at times but in the end in 50 games of top-6 icetime he scored 18 points. But at least he's cheap.

If these are the best moves you can come up with in 6 years, that's revolting.

Not a lot of faith in Hughes Juolevi MacEwen and Demko?

Hughes is going to be good. Nobody is disputing that we've received good prospects with our #1 picks as compensation for sucking so badly the past few years.

No faith in Juolevi. Awful pick.

Demko is a decent young goalie. Most teams have a decent young goalie.

i think some of you guys think teams just back up a truck to the under25 40plus point 200ft player store and say load her up.

This doesnt have to go this way. (management talk) I get it things could be a lot better but this negativity and scared narrative is laughable. Teams dont hand over good players and already good ones get paid and cost usually younger assets and building blocks to aquire.

Btm 6ers usually are not much help if you play from behind and your top6/4 suck.

Whatever you guys can keep living in the past where you disect every little fringe move decide its for junk and be scared. i'm gonna stay positive and believe Jimbo will stay the course draft a stud at 10 and then add some help at forward and a right shot D to help us take the next steps..

Good luck believing that. In 6 years he's found nothing, but this summer is gonna be totally different!

If Edler walks and we come up flat then thats ok too because Edler will be retired when we need a Edler so the real future will start to be realized sooner.

Man, does it take some mental gymnastics to frame losing our #1 defender (with nobody to replace him) as a positive. Jeez.

rebuilds take 7 yrs but no one wants to listen. Jimbo has been weak but he's what we got right now and all those so called bad aquisition net better than the draft picks and McCann Forsling Carcone

Rebuilds don't take 7 years.

No, the assets don't net better than the picks + players we've given away. And it's not even close. And that's before all the wasted cap space.

Jim Benning's regime has been a start-to-finish complete disaster. The only good thing that has happened is that by accidentally sucking the NHL has given us a bunch of high draft picks (which Benning did his best to squander) which have predictably turned into good young players.

sometimes this place is like listening to a buddy complain about his girlfriend. Dude if you hate her so much then leave. Lets talk hockey deals

I like your Connolly target. I like Ferland and Johansson too but its gonna have to be term and money that makes sense

If Benning and Aquilini are still here in 2 years and we've acquired Lucic, I probably will leave.

There is only so long I can keep following unlikable, incompetent people running a terrible hockey team. I want to be proud of the team I cheer for. I don't live in Vancouver and it isn't that much more effort to go to Seattle to watch a game a few times/year.

 

[CanaFan]

Good to see that this is the management thread....yawn.

It's a thread for speculation about what management is going to do this summer. If you have a way to talk about what management might do without involving what they have done, then you should trot it out for everyone to emulate. It could be a game changer.

 

[TruGr1t]

See this is exactly what happens around here.

Vanek nets a player who would be considered a pretty good 3rd round pick and people start some weird narrative that Benning thought or brought him here to be the LW solution with Boeser and Pettersson. Create a hypothetical with a completely unrealistic expectation than claim how bad it is that we ended up with Motte.

We pulled 24yr old Tyler Motte who is fast as **** is a pretty good penalty killer just scored 9 goals and improving from a player no good team wants yet it is some kind of dig on Benning?

Nobody cares about Motte because he is the definition of a replacement level player. You could acquire 20 Mottes an offseason if you're really into Tyler Mottes.

There are probably 809 Mottes waiting to play in the NHL at minimum salary.

 

[sting101]

Jeez what are the Rangers going to do for the next 5 years and 8 months?

7yrs is based off having very little to nothing to start with and do you actually think the Rangers are contenders now?

You have to admit getting Trouba for 20th and Kakko from the lottery balls is some pretty huge luck as well as that idiot Fox choosing them as his destination.They also had a contender that their ownership was willing to turn the page on and cashed out on Stepan Zuccarrello McDonagh and fleeced Dorion for Zibenajad. It is pretty impressive talent wise but it's early we'll see how good these guys are in a few years.

 

[clunk]

7yrs is based off having very little to nothing to start with and do you actually think the Rangers are contenders now?

You have to admit getting Trouba for 20th and Kakko from the lottery balls is some pretty huge luck as well as that idiot Fox choosing them as his destination.They also had a contender that their ownership was willing to turn the page on and cashed out on Stepan Zuccarrello McDonagh and fleeced Dorion for Zibenajad. It is pretty impressive talent wise but it's early we'll see how good these guys are in a few years.

So, in other words, they rebuilt well.

And they're at the same place we are, or better, in much less amount of time.

Gotcha.

 

[The Drop]

Ferraro on the radio right now: what is the direction of this team? Does anyone know? Do they want to make the playoffs next year? Make them long term? Or rebuild?

“They need to balance size with skill. They don’t have enough skill”

Agreed Ray, agreed.

 

[4Twenty]

He’s not better enough to consider that trade a massive win to parade around as proof of concept that benning is doing well.

Leivo = carcone and lepisic


Like Leivo is a 26year old 30 point player and you gave up a 25 year old 30point player and a 23 yr old prospect for him. It’s not a banner waiving trade which is my point.

Leivo being a big win, feels exactly like Granlund getting called a big win a few years back.

Leivo played first line minutes almost his entire time in vancouver and produced at a 30 point pace. Put up 6 points in the final 25 games while playing with EP and BB, while being 4th in TOI for forwards on the team.

HES NOTHING SPECIAL

 

[MS]

You know your team is bad when 35 point players are considered as the big wins of the management team. Bennings most praised acquisitions (not including the draft) are Baertschi, Pearson and Leivo. Let that sink! Thats 3 players any good team would have no issues to move on from, for the Canucks its the best acquisitions.

Those 3 players scored 65 points in 182 games last year (29 points/82 GP) as top-6 forwards for $8 million. And that's the f***ing high-water mark for Jim Benning.

It's absolutely incredible that people can defend this with a straight face. It's literally impossible to be a GM of an NHL team and not have a couple dumpster-find guys take advantage of an opportunity presented by some icetime on a bad team. Or have some high draft picks turn into good young players.

Back when this team was good, management would have been torn to shreds for bringing in winger options this poor to supplement our top players. But now these sort of fringe 25-point player is a MASSIVE HOME RUN because ... uh ... compared to Gudbranson and Eriksson they look great!

In a vacuum, it isn't a ding.

In the context of, "hey guys, don't be so negative with your expectations and speculation. Look at these examples of why you should be more positive. Tyler Motte." it is rightly a ding.

Yup. Tyler Motte is just a nothing. If he's a guy you're listing as a big positive, you've kinda made your own argument against yourself.

 

[sting101]

So, in other words, they rebuilt well.

And they're at the same place we are, or better, in much less amount of time.

Gotcha.

Looks like a pretty bad team to me

 

[Bonham]

So, in other words, they rebuilt well.

And they're at the same place we are, or better, in much less amount of time.

Gotcha.

Yeah, but if you look past the myriad of things they've done right, it's really not that impressive.

 

[krutovsdonut]

You have it backwards. If the contract is front loaded, the buyout is cheaper but the cap hit relief goes down not up. It also goes down if there are bonuses in the buyout years because bonuses are paid in full and the cap hit is calculated by subtracting the (non-bonus) salary from the cap amount and adding that to the buyout amount. You can check it out for yourself using one of the buyout calculators (I use the one at CapFriendly). Here's an article explaining the buyout math.

In the case of Jay Beagle, if you buy out the last two years of the contract the cap hit is:
20-21: $1,366,667
21-22: $2,366,667
22-23: $566,667
23-24: $566,667

You get only $633,333 cap savings in 21-22 because there's a $1,000,000 bonus that year.

Bottom line: Although not as bad as the Ericksson contract, the Beagle and Roussel deals are definitely not "buyout friendly" for cap spending teams.

i thought a front loaded contract with minimal signing bonuses in the last two years is normally considered buyout friendly because it is cheaper to buyout. in this case beagle's contract is 73% of aav over the last two years and there is only $1 million out of $6 million in signing bonus paid in the last two years.

if the yardstick for buyout friendly is cap hit then i guess you could try and backload the contract to minimize cap hit but then you would pay increased buyout costs. does anyone do that?

 

[Addison Rae]

Did Corsi tell you this? He is a plug just like Granlund and Leivo and the majority of our middle 6 trash. Granted, he may still have a bit of untapped potential but I remain skeptical

The fact that he scored 15 goals and drives the play decently in tough minutes says Virtanen is a solid middle 6 player.

He’s not a scrub, he’s a useful player.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Okay, let’s make this distinction here - this thread is to discuss this summer’s moves and rumours.

The management thread is where arguments and evaluations of Benning’s past moves should be held.

So to sum up today -

Canucks have been talking to the Sabres about one of Ristolainen or Bogosian.

With Edler likely not returning, Canucks are looking to lock up Luke Schenn.

 

[DonnyNucker]

The fact that he scored 15 goals and drives the play decently in tough minutes says Virtanen is a solid middle 6 player.

He’s not a scrub, he’s a useful player.

If you are this high on Virtanan and Ehlers is a mile and a half better you must think he is a superstar. Virtanen had some lucky breaks this year to hit 15. You are right, he isn’t useless but I think he is is easily replaceable

 

[The Drop]

The Edler stuff may just be posturing

 

[The Drop]

If you are this high on Virtanan and Ehlers is a mile and a half better you must think he is a superstar. Virtanen had some lucky breaks this year to hit 15. You are right, he isn’t useless but I think he is is easily replaceable

I think he had 3 empty netters

 

[MS]

Virtanen had the ugliest, flukiest, luckiest 15 goals in NHL history last year. Of his first 10 goals, I think 9 were either fluke bounces, complete misses by the opposing goalie, or empty-netters. The relative luck of Virtanen and Goldobin (who was constantly hitting posts and getting robbed on clean chances) reached the point of being hilarious.

That said, Virtanen is a guy who can be useful long-term and should be scoring 15 goals/year legitimately. Last season was an extremely disappointing one given the progress he made in 17-18.

 

[TruGr1t]

 

[DecideFreedom]

Deja vu.








Also Fire Benning!

 

[DonnyNucker]

I think he had 3 empty netters

Exactly, and another 5 were a total fluke. I should know as I shotgunned to every one of them

 

[Addison Rae]

If you are this high on Virtanan and Ehlers is a mile and a half better you must think he is a superstar. Virtanen had some lucky breaks this year to hit 15. You are right, he isn’t useless but I think he is is easily replaceable

Virtanen is a 15/15 middle 6 winger that’s improving defensively, Ehlers is a 60 point top 6 winger that has excellent even strength production.

I’m not here to debate Ehlers/Virtanen, everyone knows who the better player is.

Virtanen though is absolutely a useful NHL player.

 

[Love]

I wonder if one day we’ll actually have a real number one defenceman.

 

[member 290103]

It's not worth it to move Tanev for that type of return. They just don't have enough depth to handle it. Add to that Benning would just blow the second rounder on some garbage vet anyway. Keep Tanev.

 

[TruGr1t]

It's not worth it to move Tanev for that type of return. They just don't have enough depth to handle it. Add to that Benning would just blow the second rounder on some garbage vet anyway. Keep Tanev.

Interesting you say that now because they're on track to lose Tanev for nothing as well. After he plays ~30 games next year and leaves Vancouver in free agency would you have preferred that 2nd + 3rd after another failed season?

Or is your intention to trade him at the deadline in a non-existent Jim Benning deadline move?

And for the record, I don't think they'll trade him either, but it's the exact same mistake they always make. Ride players off a cliff till they have no value and leave in FA.