2019 Off-Season Non-Management Thread - Canucks/Boeser talking 4-5 years, $7m AAV - Kypreos)

[Peter10]

Holding firm on Edler
looking for a d man to help the right side
Moved Carcone and Gudbranson for Pearson and Leivo
Moving on from Pouliot Gaunce Del Zotto Gagner Nilsson and it looks like Eriksson while integrating better younger players in Hughes Juolevi Gaudette Motte MacEwen and Demko.....i'm so scared

Ok, so he hasnt completely screwed up in a few months? Why moving on from Gaunce is a good thing and giving time to Motte as well is still a bit of a mystery to me but each to their own. But basically what you are saying is that he isnt doubling down on his previous mistakes (or tripling in Gudbransons case). Why would you have any sort in confidence in someone for whom it is a good sign not to appear completely inept for longer than 3 months?

What about the Utica desaster that happened this season?
What about going into this season with the same defense that crapped the bed the year before?
What about not being proactive when it came to Edler to help facilitating a trade if needed?


This is like 2017 when he "finally saw the light" at the deadline and made some sort of good moves with the Hansen and Burrows trades. "He has turned it around" and guess what, 2 years later its still the same BS. He spent millions and millions on absolutely useless players in UFA, he resigned Gudbranson when he could have dealt him, he still hasnt made a trade since that brought any player back who might be still useful in a couple of years.

 

[Blue and Green]

Moved Carcone and Gudbranson and LEPISIC for Pearson and Leivo

LEPISIC has 18 in 45 games with the King’s playing 14 mins a night while leivo 18 points in 49 games playing 15:55 a night. So that deal when you look at it completely is a wash

Garner got replaced by spooner don’t forget

And Juloevi and macewen haven’t made the team yet; not really motte but whatever.

Don’t just make up things about youngsters making the team

Leivo is far better than Leipsic without the puck. They are not the same calibre of player.

 

[TruGr1t]

Holding firm on Edler
looking for a d man to help the right side
Moved Carcone and Gudbranson for Pearson and Leivo
Moving on from Pouliot Gaunce Del Zotto Gagner Nilsson and it looks like Eriksson while integrating better younger players in Hughes Juolevi Gaudette Motte MacEwen and Demko.....i'm so scared

Oh wow, yeah totally instills confidence. Look at this list of absolute gems. Totally makes me confident in Benning's ability to make major trades, especially involving 1st round picks.

Seriously, that's a bunch of AHL fodder moving around. How is that indicative of anything? I'll give you credit on the new pro-management Edler narrative, though, that's creative. And good job figuring out Pouliot sucked by overplaying him for multiple years. And getting a lower pick for Del Zotto than Anaheim did at the deadline so you could have a few months of Schenn. Or taking on Spooner ... great stuff. Glad we made room for Juolevi ... total blue chipper. I'd also like to take this opportunity to commend them for "making room for Demko" ... that was an absolute prime example of strong inter-seasonal management right there ... juggling goalies and contracts like a pro.

The only trades Benning should be judged on, until he makes one that actually impacts in some meaningful way, are Kesler and Gudbranson.

 

[MS]

Holding firm on Edler
looking for a d man to help the right side
Moved Carcone and Gudbranson for Pearson and Leivo
Moving on from Pouliot Gaunce Del Zotto Gagner Nilsson and it looks like Eriksson while integrating better younger players in Hughes Juolevi Gaudette Motte MacEwen and Demko.....i'm so scared

Most of this list is just other bad Benning moves that he had to pay to get out of or released after we wasted money and roster spots on them. Eriksson hasn't remotely been gotten out of yet.

Juolevi and MacEwen haven't been integrated. Demko and Hughes have played 15 games combined.

Motte?!?

The only potentially good thing you've listed here is refusing to overpay our top defender ... while trying to overpay worse players even more.

 

[Wo Yorfat]

All of Vancouver is freaking out over Benning gearing up to make his big trade. There was a poll this morning on 1040 and like 88% of ~2,000 people said they were nervous about the "bad contracts" the Canucks would add in free agency. There is no way you cannot be a least slightly freaking out about this because our management team makes horrible trades and free agent signings. You should actually be freaking out till further notice because it would actually be abnormal for them to make a good move.

I understand. I expect we will make bad moves that will hurt for years to come. I'm just not putting much stock into the off season rumor mill or worrying about it. I don't worry about Monday morning on Saturday afternoon.

 

[Carnal]

I know you're big on the victim angle lately, but don't you think the fear/speculation is warranted after Benning's 5 years of failure? We've all seen the list of Dmen he has targeted. It's not as if it's been anything but an absolute disaster.

The thing I've found funny about this forum is there seems to be two camps of Canucks fans here: those who want Benning replaced and those who think the team is better off keeping him.

To me that second group is holding on to pretty thin material to maintain their argument.

Reminds me of this guy I used to work with. I work as a unionized electrician. This guy, lets call him Dan, for 25 years worked in a non union company. He was told all through those years how bad the union is, union dues, we're lazy, etc.

He knew it was nonsense, he knew how much more money unionized workers made but he kept arguing against it.

And he came to realize over time he was no longer lying to others, he was lying to himself. He had to justify how he stayed with such comparably bad working situation for so long, that he began lying to himself.

Until he ripped off the bandage, and admitted to himself and others he should have done that a long time sooner, but better late than never.

So..um... I'm not sure where I was going with that.... o yeah, if Messier had not taken out Lindens ribs at the end of game 6 we would have won game 7. Yeah.

For the guys who keep defending Benning through all his blunders, it's never too late to admit the mistake and continue wanting what's best for this team...

 

[Fire Benning]

Can't wait for the integration of a budding young star in Tyler Motte..lol

 

[sting101]

Ok, so he hasnt completely screwed up in a few months? Why moving on from Gaunce is a good thing and giving time to Motte as well is still a bit of a mystery to me but each to their own. But basically what you are saying is that he isnt doubling down on his previous mistakes (or tripling in Gudbransons case). Why would you have any sort in confidence in someone for whom it is a good sign not to appear completely inept for longer than 3 months?

What about the Utica desaster that happened this season?
What about going into this season with the same defense that crapped the bed the year before?
What about not being proactive when it came to Edler to help facilitating a trade if needed?


This is like 2017 when he "finally saw the light" at the deadline and made some sort of good moves with the Hansen and Burrows trades. "He has turned it around" and guess what, 2 years later its still the same BS. He spent millions and millions on absolutely useless players in UFA, he resigned Gudbranson when he could have dealt him, he still hasnt made a trade since that brought any player back who might be still useful in a couple of years.

They're only useless players to you.

I get the feeling the coaching staff management and teammates are happy to have them along for the ride

 

[Wo Yorfat]

The thing I've found funny about this forum is there seems to be two camps of Canucks fans here: those who want Benning replaced and those who think the team is better off keeping him.

To me that second group is holding on to pretty thin material to maintain their argument.

Reminds me of this guy I used to work with. I work as a unionized electrician. This guy, lets call him Dan, for 25 years worked in a non union company. He was told all through those years how bad the union is, union dues, we're lazy, etc.

He knew it was nonsense, he knew how much more money unionized workers made but he kept arguing against it.

And he came to realize over time he was no longer lying to others, he was lying to himself. He had to justify how he stayed with such comparably bad working situation for so long, that he began lying to himself.

Until he ripped off the bandage, and admitted to himself and others he should have done that a long time sooner, but better late than never.

So..um... I'm not sure where I was going with that.... o yeah, if Messier had not taken out Lindens ribs at the end of game 6 we would have won game 7. Yeah.

For the guys who keep defending Benning through all his blunders, it's never too late to admit the mistake and continue wanting what's best for this team...

I certainly agree that a lot of the pro Benning folks consistently say things that they know aren't true. I think it's a mix of denial, contrarianism, and having invested so much time and effort into defending someone that they simply will not or can not go back.

 

[DonnyNucker]

The thing I've found funny about this forum is there seems to be two camps of Canucks fans here: those who want Benning replaced and those who think the team is better off keeping him.

To me that second group is holding on to pretty thin material to maintain their argument.

Reminds me of this guy I used to work with. I work as a unionized electrician. This guy, lets call him Dan, for 25 years worked in a non union company. He was told all through those years how bad the union is, union dues, we're lazy, etc.

He knew it was nonsense, he knew how much more money unionized workers made but he kept arguing against it.

And he came to realize over time he was no longer lying to others, he was lying to himself. He had to justify how he stayed with such comparably bad working situation for so long, that he began lying to himself.

Until he ripped off the bandage, and admitted to himself and others he should have done that a long time sooner, but better late than never.

So..um... I'm not sure where I was going with that.... o yeah, if Messier had not taken out Lindens ribs at the end of game 6 we would have won game 7. Yeah.

For the guys who keep defending Benning through all his blunders, it's never too late to admit the mistake and continue wanting what's best for this team...

I disagree. There is a middle group that is open to Benning being replaced but are uncertain of the potential replacements. Benning has done some good and some bad (mainly pro scouting). I’d prefer Benning is gone because a lame duck GM + an owner desperate for playoffs is terrifying.

That being said, I often disagree more with the anti-benning crowd because of the extreme takes like “benning is the worst pro scout in history.” Or “Edler not waiving is entirely Bennings fault.” It’s all pretty tiring and sadly it’s usually the same bs every day. But the draft chat and rumours are grade A!

 

[Addison Rae]

Well Jake sucks, I think even the most delusional fans know this by now

Virtanen doesn’t suck at all.

 

[I in the Eye]

The Canucks look and feel paper thin... and letting Edler walk with nothing to show for it won't help.

Benning has said throughout the season that he wants Edler, and he's not worried about it. Benning can either re-sign Edler, or get a good asset for him. I don't see how letting Edler walk for nothing would be a job well done. If Edler goes for nothing, what a botched start of the offseason. Signing Edler should be as easy as GMing gets.

Perhaps this offseason is the transitioning from death by a thousand cuts, to a knife across the jugular. Nothing has been learned.

 

[Addison Rae]

They're only useless players to you.

I get the feeling the coaching staff management and teammates are happy to have them along for the ride

Management was happy to have Erik Gudbranson and Luca Sbisa.

Not exactly the best example.

 

[Peter10]

They're only useless players to you.

I get the feeling the coaching staff management and teammates are happy to have them along for the ride

The likes of Nilsson, Gagner, Del Zotto, Wiercoch or Burmistrov you mean? The whole 2017 UFA signings where a complete clusterf*** and besides Vanek useless beyong recognition and Vanek only brought us Motte who is all hustle and all talentless too. Tim Schiller and 3.8m wasted you think Green is happy to have him for a long ride? He didnt even play much at the end? You think Pettersson and Horvat and Hughes and Boeser will be happy we are paying Jay Beagle and damaged goods Roussell freaking 6m a year in 2020-21 and 2021-22 when this money could and should be used to bring in talent necessary to support these guys in what might be their first playoff run?

 

[DonnyNucker]

Virtanen doesn’t suck at all.

Did Corsi tell you this? He is a plug just like Granlund and Leivo and the majority of our middle 6 trash. Granted, he may still have a bit of untapped potential but I remain skeptical

 

[Hit the post]

Management was happy to have Erik Gudbranson and Luca Sbisa.

Not exactly the best example.

I see you that and raise you management was happy with Willie D as head coach for three seasons.

 

[xtra]

Leivo is far better than Leipsic without the puck. They are not the same calibre of player.

He’s not better enough to consider that trade a massive win to parade around as proof of concept that benning is doing well.

Leivo = carcone and lepisic


Like Leivo is a 26year old 30 point player and you gave up a 25 year old 30point player and a 23 yr old prospect for him. It’s not a banner waiving trade which is my point.

 

[sting101]

Most of this list is just other bad Benning moves that he had to pay to get out of or released after we wasted money and roster spots on them. Eriksson hasn't remotely been gotten out of yet.

Juolevi and MacEwen haven't been integrated. Demko and Hughes have played 15 games combined.

Motte?!?

The only potentially good thing you've listed here is refusing to overpay our top defender ... while trying to overpay worse players even more.

not a fan of Leivo and Pearson? That could be 35 goals next year and some size strength along the walls and in front of the net.
Not a lot of faith in Hughes Juolevi MacEwen and Demko?

i think some of you guys think teams just back up a truck to the under25 40plus point 200ft player store and say load her up.

This doesnt have to go this way. (management talk) I get it things could be a lot better but this negativity and scared narrative is laughable. Teams dont hand over good players and already good ones get paid and cost usually younger assets and building blocks to aquire.

Btm 6ers usually are not much help if you play from behind and your top6/4 suck.

Whatever you guys can keep living in the past where you disect every little fringe move decide its for junk and be scared. i'm gonna stay positive and believe Jimbo will stay the course draft a stud at 10 and then add some help at forward and a right shot D to help us take the next steps..

If Edler walks and we come up flat then thats ok too because Edler will be retired when we need a Edler so the real future will start to be realized sooner.

rebuilds take 7 yrs but no one wants to listen. Jimbo has been weak but he's what we got right now and all those so called bad aquisition net better than the draft picks and McCann Forsling Carcone

sometimes this place is like listening to a buddy complain about his girlfriend. Dude if you hate her so much then leave. Lets talk hockey deals

I like your Connolly target. I like Ferland and Johansson too but its gonna have to be term and money that makes sense

 

[Peter10]

You know your team is bad when 35 point players are considered as the big wins of the management team. Bennings most praised acquisitions (not including the draft) are Baertschi, Pearson and Leivo. Let that sink! Thats 3 players any good team would have no issues to move on from, for the Canucks its the best acquisitions.

 

[Peter10]

rebuilds take 7 yrs but no one wants to listen.

Jeez what are the Rangers going to do for the next 5 years and 8 months?

 

[The Drop]

Leivo is far better than Leipsic without the puck. They are not the same calibre of player.

Leivo is another dime a dozen player. Like Baerstchi and Granlund. He just happens to be bigger.

He won't be on this team long term either. The giveaway should have been that LB defends him like he defended Granlund.

 

[tradervik]

the beagle deal is for half the money and is front loaded so it is easy to buyout after two years. beagle was also 32 when he signed and started last season. edler will turn 34 during this season. on a 4 year deal he will be 38 when he finishes the last season.

if they could sign a contract with a tiered aav that dropped after two years with edler i am sure they would.

but you knew that.

You have it backwards. If the contract is front loaded, the buyout is cheaper but the cap hit relief goes down not up. It also goes down if there are bonuses in the buyout years because bonuses are paid in full and the cap hit is calculated by subtracting the (non-bonus) salary from the cap amount and adding that to the buyout amount. You can check it out for yourself using one of the buyout calculators (I use the one at CapFriendly). Here's an article explaining the buyout math.

In the case of Jay Beagle, if you buy out the last two years of the contract the cap hit is:
20-21: $1,366,667
21-22: $2,366,667
22-23: $566,667
23-24: $566,667

You get only $633,333 cap savings in 21-22 because there's a $1,000,000 bonus that year.

Bottom line: Although not as bad as the Ericksson contract, the Beagle and Roussel deals are definitely not "buyout friendly" for cap spending teams.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Good to see that this is the management thread....yawn.

 

[sting101]

Can't wait for the integration of a budding young star in Tyler Motte..lol

See this is exactly what happens around here.

Vanek nets a player who would be considered a pretty good 3rd round pick and people start some weird narrative that Benning thought or brought him here to be the LW solution with Boeser and Pettersson. Create a hypothetical with a completely unrealistic expectation than claim how bad it is that we ended up with Motte.

We pulled 24yr old Tyler Motte who is fast as f*** is a pretty good penalty killer just scored 9 goals and improving from a player no good team wants yet it is some kind of dig on Benning?

 

[CanaFan]

See this is exactly what happens around here.

Vanek nets a player who would be considered a pretty good 3rd round pick and people start some weird narrative that Benning thought or brought him here to be the LW solution with Boeser and Pettersson. Create a hypothetical with a completely unrealistic expectation than claim how bad it is that we ended up with Motte.

We pulled 24yr old Tyler Motte who is fast as **** is a pretty good penalty killer just scored 9 goals and improving from a player no good team wants yet it is some kind of dig on Benning?

In a vacuum, it isn't a ding.

In the context of, "hey guys, don't be so negative with your expectations and speculation. Look at these examples of why you should be more positive. Tyler Motte." it is rightly a ding.