2019 Off-Season Non-Management Thread - Canucks/Boeser talking 4-5 years, $7m AAV - Kypreos)

[MS]

lol, so ms claims beagle was 33 when he signed and the age difference is a couple of months. i accurately state the facts and you claim i am fudging the facts. welcome back. i see nothing has changed.

Jesus Christ.

1) again, this is standard hockey aging and how players are universally described.

2) trying to argue that 'Edler is the same age as Beagle last summer' is somehow a wrong statement because Edler was 2 months older than 33 and Beagle was 2 months younger than 33 is just semantic garbage wasting everyone's time to try to distract from the actual argument.

 

[clunk]

yay..

Disgusting.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Both players were/are heading into their 33 y/o seasons, which is the common way of stating age for NHL players. I'm not inventing anything here. This is how ages are described for players right from junior.

Combined with Rousell, Benning gave a $6 million commitment for 4 years for old bottom-6 forwards. Now he apparently won't go past 2 years for the team's #1 defender at roughly that same commitment.

Reports are that Edler didn't demand a NMC. This is a red herring.

you were trying to minimize the age difference between the players.

and now you are being ridiculous. your original proposition was that beagle getting 4 years at the same age as edler was an insult. now you are claiming two contracts combined, including one for a guy who was 28 when he signed, is somehow an insult. that's just hyperbole. i do agree edler will be paid closer to the combined contract values of both those guys than one of them, which is why i think you are comparing apples and oranges..

and the "reports" are that edler did not demand expansion protection, not that he didn't ask for any nmc at all. and that is a single report. if edler signs with the same or less trade and movement protection than beagle i will be shocked.

 

[polarbearcub]

Depending on the price , risto could be a solid add. 40 point d.

Bogosian on the other hand

 

[krutovsdonut]

You didn't accurately state the facts. You said that Edler would be 38 at the end of a new 4-year deal. In fact, Edler would turn 37 on April 21 of the expiring year, not 38.

well he is 33 now. so he will start the fourth year at 37 and turn 38 at the end of it. i was wrong though that he will only turn 38 as a player if we or his team makes the playoffs that year.

 

[timw33]

"Ha ha! You have fallen for the most buffoonish ruses of them all! The player is not in fact one age, but in fact two months younger and therefore your premise must be looked upon for the fraud that it is Ha ha!"

 

[FroshaugFan2]

well he is 33 now. so he will start the fourth year at 37 and turn 38 at the end of it. i was wrong though that he will only turn 38 as a player if we or his team makes the playoffs that year.

Try again.

 

[Peter10]

Oh really? So Kevin Hayes signed with NY for 2 years at $3.75MM AAV. So you believe he would have signed for the same amount in Vancouver or WNP? Of course not, NY is a more desirable place to play. Now do you think the Canucks or any other less desirable market would have offered more term/ higher AAV? Of course they would/ did. Hence, Hayes took less to play in arguably the most desirable City in the league. Also, no trade protection was required so he was easy to flip.

This isnt rocket science Peter

That Kevin Hayes deal was for the maximum entry level deal. He did not give a single cent discount. There was also no trade protection allowed on that deal.

It's not rocket science Donny.

 

[Blue and Green]

well he is 33 now. so he will start the fourth year at 37 and turn 38 at the end of it. i was wrong though that he will only turn 38 as a player if we or his team makes the playoffs that year.

He would start the 4th year at 36, not 37.

 

[krutovsdonut]

the beagle deal is for half the money and is front loaded so it is easy to buyout after two years. beagle was also 32 when he signed and started last season. edler will turn 34 during this season. on a 4 year deal he will be 38 when he finishes the last season.

if they could sign a contract with a tiered aav that dropped after two years with edler i am sure they would.

this is what i typed.

it's a fair comment on ms' original point.

now look at the furious level of rabbit hole misdirection activity it has generated from multiple members here.

 

[timw33]

If it was based on consistent club policy and sound management it wouldn't be a sign of disrespect.

When you give another team's middling 4th line center a 4-year deal at age 33 the previous summer and then won't for a guy who has been here for 15 years, that is *absolutely* a sign of disrespect. That's an total kick in the teeth.

We will pay other team's warriors who bled for their cups (True Blue Winners!) but not for our players who have bled and soldiered loyally for our playoff runs and teams that want to be here (see Hamhuis as well).

Benning has a different arrogance than Gillis, it's a dumb arrogance where he thinks he knows how build a winner when he has shown exactly zero acumen in doing so.

the beagle deal is for half the money and is front loaded so it is easy to buyout after two years. beagle was also 32 when he signed and started last season. edler will turn 34 during this season. on a 4 year deal he will be 38 when he finishes the last season.

if they could sign a contract with a tiered aav that dropped after two years with edler i am sure they would.

but you knew that.

Just a note on the buyout, sure it's not that much actual $ in the later part of the contract, but the buyout AAV after two years is still 1.36MM, 2.36MM, 556k, 556k, which isn't insignificant. Not to mention that it means we'd have paid $7.6MM for 2 years of Beagle which is pretty disgusting.

 

[krutovsdonut]

He would start the 4th year at 36, not 37.

you got me. my apologies. i checked myself twice and still got it wrong.

 

[Breakers]

Easy Easy no on Ristolainen.
Especially with what some are mentioning in the 10th overall pick going the other way.
That is a bad trade.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Bogosian and Ristolainen are both former high draft picks who are terrible so it makes sense that Benning is interested in them.

I'm down for either! Neither is a long-term cap anchor, acquiring either of them likely precludes us from overpaying for Tyler Myers, and both ensure a significant downgrade on D that will probably get Benning fired.

Ristolainen is Ben Hutton with PP time, and Bogosian is a physical third pairing guy at this point of his career. As long as we don't hand Bogosian an extension as soon as the trade happens, which is a legitimate concern with dimwit Jim.

 

[timw33]

I'm down for either! Neither is a long-term cap anchor, acquiring either of them likely precludes us from overpaying for Tyler Myers, and both ensure a significant downgrade on D that will probably get Benning fired.

Ristolainen is Ben Hutton with PP time, and Bogosian is a physical third pairing guy at this point of his career. As long as we don't hand Bogosian an extension as soon as the trade happens, which is a legitimate concern with dimwit Jim.

The worry is more that we move the 10th or 2020 1st for one of these guys, which would be an unmitigated disaster. Especially trading the next years' pick and eliminating our safety net when the team inevitably implodes.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Why anyone would think Benning would make sounds decisions when:

A. Given his past history of shit trades and signings
B. His job is on the line to make the playoffs

Is beyond me.

I fully expect a train wreck coming.

 

[Peter10]

the beagle deal is for half the money and is front loaded so it is easy to buyout after two years.

It's not an easy buyout. It's a buyout that costs you more than if you d just keep playing him.

There are 6m in cap hit for 2y remaining in 2020. A buyout would make that 4.87m over 4y but of course now you also have pay another player to take Beagles spot, even at minimum salary that's another 1.4m over 2y. You end up paying at least 6.23m in cap hit (though spread over more years) instead of 6m. Its borrowing from the future so you can sign a glorified 4th line which doesn't move the needle at all.

 

[sting101]

Montours name came up before the season ended. Not sure why but it was reported he wasnt too happy to be in Buffalo and they werent to happy with his play and discontent. Could be a situation like Trouba there.

Other than than Buffalo is the last place you want to call for defenseman

 

[Bettman Returnz]

Wouldn’t it be funny/crazy if after being linked to nearly every player (this off season)... we ended up standing-pat and do nothing?! Go into next season with basically the exact same roster (give or take a few players but those changes are so minor you don’t even notice).

 

[sting101]

You guys do understand that Green wanted Beagle and Roussel right?

 

[DonnyNucker]

That Kevin Hayes deal was for the maximum entry level deal. He did not give a single cent discount. There was also no trade protection allowed on that deal.

It's not rocket science Donny.

I was referring to when he resigned for two years. Was he an RFA? If so then I’m using a poor example.

 

[MS]

I'm down for either! Neither is a long-term cap anchor, acquiring either of them likely precludes us from overpaying for Tyler Myers, and both ensure a significant downgrade on D that will probably get Benning fired.

Ristolainen is Ben Hutton with PP time, and Bogosian is a physical third pairing guy at this point of his career. As long as we don't hand Bogosian an extension as soon as the trade happens, which is a legitimate concern with dimwit Jim.

... this all sounds good until we give the #10 overall pick in a deal for Ristolainen.

Bogosian is a pointless acquisition. He's taken forever to round into an OK #4-5 guy, but is more injury-prone than Tanev and is an American UFA next summer who won't re-sign here. Giving assets for him would be a waste, although I agree it's a better option than Myers.

Ristolainen is just a disaster and probably the single player in the entire NHL I'd most want to stay away from. The goals that this guy bleeds are the single biggest reason that franchise hasn't been able to turn a corner.

 

[PecaFan]

Geezus. Can't believe the attempts to debate this. Hockey-reference info:

Beagle: Age: 33-245d
Season Age Tm
2018-19 33 VAN

Edler: Age: 33-058d
Season Age Tm
2018-19 32 VAN

Age difference: 187 days, half a year, but one season.

MS is bang on correct.

 

[opendoor]

you were trying to minimize the age difference between the players.

You don't have to "try" to minimize the age difference because there isn't one. Beagle was born in 1985 and signed a 4 year deal in 2018. Edler was born in 1986 and is signing a contract in 2019. There's less than 6 months difference in their ages at the time of signing.

 

[opendoor]

well he is 33 now. so he will start the fourth year at 37 and turn 38 at the end of it. i was wrong though that he will only turn 38 as a player if we or his team makes the playoffs that year.

You can't be that bad at math, can you?