2019-20 Kings News/Rumors

[Raccoon Jesus]

carter strikes me as the type of person that can motivate himself for a Stanley cup playoff run, but if your team isn't making the playoff, he's doing the minimum possible on the clock. I get it, just think he'd be rejuvenated in the payoffs, playing on say, Sidney Crosby's right wing.

Problem is half the team is on that plan, especially Drew Doughty.

 

[kingsholygrail]

This was one of the most lukewarm Kings-Ducks games in a while. Normally there's more fireworks.

 

[tny760]

This was one of the most lukewarm Kings-Ducks games in a while. Normally there's more fireworks.

lukewarm kings game, sounds about right

 

[KingsFan7824]

lukewarm kings game, sounds about right

Lucwarm, amirite?

 

[Reaper45]

Lucwarm, amirite?

You are indeed.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

 

[Ollie Weeks]

Problem is half the team is on that plan, especially Drew Doughty.

I don’t trust Brown either in that regard to be honest. Though that may just be Father Time rearing his ugly head, hard to tell.

 

[Herby]

Which contracts is Blake saddled with?

Quick - I'll give you that one.
Brown - Yeah probably, but could be traded if the Kings are willing to retain some of his cap hit.
Kopitar - Robitaille and Blake had every bit as much to do with his deal as Lombardi did.
Carter - Could have and should have been moved after re-signing Kopitar.
Doughty - That's all on Blake.

Managed to get rid of Kovalchuk, but Blake put that saddle on the tired old mule. Good thing for the Kings they still have his cap hit of $6.25M next season.

If I am leaving a player out that is holding the Kings back that Blake could have sold off let me know. Must be Clifford, Lewis, or Martinez that is holding them back now, right?

Other than Quick, Kopitar and Doughty, which contracts are the ones Blake can't get rid of?

It's funny, everyone talks about the bad contracts but there was very little criticism towards either GM when all of them were signed. It's kind of like congress, everyone hates congress but won't be critical at the micro-level.

Most were happy when they signed all these guys and balked at the idea of trading any of them. Once it became apparent that the team's run was over they should have decided which one of Kopitar and Doughty they were going to keep as the face of the franchise and moved on from everyone else.

Another year of paying $20+m to two players who's best days are behind them and having a team lightyears from contending. And each guy is on the hook for alot more years as declining assets. I'm honestly shocked the bean-counters at AEG allow it to happen.

Just hypothetical, what if at the 2017 deadline the Kings began a rebuild. What if they unloaded Carter who was having a great season at that deadline, along with Lewis (who was also having a great season)? What if they made the decision to keep Kopitar and unloaded Doughty in the summer of 2017 and unloaded Quick sometime shortly thereafter. There is no Phaneuf dead space, no Kovalchuk dead space, a top 5 pick in 2018 plus whatever assets they got for guys like Carter, Lewis, Muzzin etc.

It would have resulted in being beyond terrible, but in the end the same number of playoff wins and the franchise is likely loaded with many more high end prospects right now and is probably atleast seeing the light at the end of the tunnel when it comes to getting out of this disaster. Sad that two different GM's couldn't see this and insisted on doubling down with this overrated core.

 

[regulate]

Grundstrom has been called up from ONT, Luff sent back down.

 

[Stimpythecat]

I'm not sure if Doughty re-signs if the rebuild started that early. Kopitar re-signed in Jan 2016 so he wasn't going anywhere.

 

[KingsFan7824]

It's funny, everyone talks about the bad contracts but there was very little criticism towards either GM when all of them were signed. It's kind of like congress, everyone hates congress but won't be critical at the micro-level.

Most were happy when they signed all these guys and balked at the idea of trading any of them. Once it became apparent that the team's run was over they should have decided which one of Kopitar and Doughty they were going to keep as the face of the franchise and moved on from everyone else.

Another year of paying $20+m to two players who's best days are behind them and having a team lightyears from contending. And each guy is on the hook for alot more years as declining assets. I'm honestly shocked the bean-counters at AEG allow it to happen.

Just hypothetical, what if at the 2017 deadline the Kings began a rebuild. What if they unloaded Carter who was having a great season at that deadline, along with Lewis (who was also having a great season)? What if they made the decision to keep Kopitar and unloaded Doughty in the summer of 2017 and unloaded Quick sometime shortly thereafter. There is no Phaneuf dead space, no Kovalchuk dead space, a top 5 pick in 2018 plus whatever assets they got for guys like Carter, Lewis, Muzzin etc.

It would have resulted in being beyond terrible, but in the end the same number of playoff wins and the franchise is likely loaded with many more high end prospects right now and is probably atleast seeing the light at the end of the tunnel when it comes to getting out of this disaster. Sad that two different GM's couldn't see this and insisted on doubling down with this overrated core.

But Carter was still 32 with 5 years left in 2017. Not many players that fit that criteria that get dealt. Not for anything with real potential anyway. Quick still has 3 years left now, in 2017 he had 6, and 3 of them were at $7m in cash. He was coming off an injury that kept him out months. Who is taking him?

Quick got his Cup contract. Brown got his Cup contract. Kopitar got his. If Doughty wanted to stay, he was getting his. Call it bad management, but the franchise was not going to volunteer to get rid of any of the core of the Cup teams(a core whose leadership sucks, but whatever). The problem, and this has been an issue with every contract given out to everyone since and including Quick in 2012, up until Iafallo I guess, was the timing. They got the win in 13-14, the first year of Quick's current deal, but beyond that, with any other contract, nothing. If the team was terrible in 17-18, if Carter's injury had tanked the roster as it should have, because there was no depth, Doughty very well may have been gone, one way or another. Thanks Kopitar. The one time he's a legit league wide MVP candidate, it ends up ruining everything.

 

[kovacro]

With the trade deadline exactly three weeks away, TSN Hockey Insider Pierre LeBrun listed six trades in The Athletic that could transpire before Feb. 24.

Looking at Canadian teams, LeBrun broke down deals that could make sense for the Calgary Flames and the Ottawa Senators.

In Calgary, LeBrun writes that he believes the team could pry Tyler Toffoli from the Los Angeles in a deal for a 2020 second-round pick, prospect Adam Ruzicka and a conditional fourth-round pick in 2021. He notes the Kings would have to retain 30 per cent of Toffoli's expiring $4.6 million cap hit to make the deal work, with the fourth-rounder contingent on Toffoli re-signing in Calgary.

Countdown to TradeCentre: Mapping out potential NHL deadline deals - TSN.ca

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

It's funny, everyone talks about the bad contracts but there was very little criticism towards either GM when all of them were signed. It's kind of like congress, everyone hates congress but won't be critical at the micro-level.

Most were happy when they signed all these guys and balked at the idea of trading any of them. Once it became apparent that the team's run was over they should have decided which one of Kopitar and Doughty they were going to keep as the face of the franchise and moved on from everyone else.

Another year of paying $20+m to two players who's best days are behind them and having a team lightyears from contending. And each guy is on the hook for alot more years as declining assets. I'm honestly shocked the bean-counters at AEG allow it to happen.

Just hypothetical, what if at the 2017 deadline the Kings began a rebuild. What if they unloaded Carter who was having a great season at that deadline, along with Lewis (who was also having a great season)? What if they made the decision to keep Kopitar and unloaded Doughty in the summer of 2017 and unloaded Quick sometime shortly thereafter. There is no Phaneuf dead space, no Kovalchuk dead space, a top 5 pick in 2018 plus whatever assets they got for guys like Carter, Lewis, Muzzin etc.

It would have resulted in being beyond terrible, but in the end the same number of playoff wins and the franchise is likely loaded with many more high end prospects right now and is probably atleast seeing the light at the end of the tunnel when it comes to getting out of this disaster. Sad that two different GM's couldn't see this and insisted on doubling down with this overrated core.

Just on the bolded part, it would have made them the first team ever in pro sports, EVER, to tell their players, fans, etc, that they didn't want to win. You think Doughty, Brown, Carter etc, have given up now, imagine their reaction when that message goes through......

 

[Herby]

Just on the bolded part, it would have made them the first team ever in pro sports, EVER, to tell their players, fans, etc, that they didn't want to win. You think Doughty, Brown, Carter etc, have given up now, imagine their reaction when that message goes through......

What?

Plenty of bad teams trade older more expensive players to get younger and build for the future. You will see teams do it in the next couple weeks leading up to the deadline. The Kings were on their way to missing the playoffs for a 2nd time in 3 years and had a dismal farm system.

 

[DoktorJeep]

With the trade deadline exactly three weeks away, TSN Hockey Insider Pierre LeBrun listed six trades in The Athletic that could transpire before Feb. 24.

Looking at Canadian teams, LeBrun broke down deals that could make sense for the Calgary Flames and the Ottawa Senators.

In Calgary, LeBrun writes that he believes the team could pry Tyler Toffoli from the Los Angeles in a deal for a 2020 second-round pick, prospect Adam Ruzicka and a conditional fourth-round pick in 2021. He notes the Kings would have to retain 30 per cent of Toffoli's expiring $4.6 million cap hit to make the deal work, with the fourth-rounder contingent on Toffoli re-signing in Calgary.

Countdown to TradeCentre: Mapping out potential NHL deadline deals - TSN.ca

LeBrun: Six specific trade deadline moves that make a lot of...

Los Angeles Kings trade Tyler Toffoli to the Calgary Flames in exchange for a 2020 second-round pick, prospect Adam Ruzicka and a conditional fourth-round pick in 2021. (Kings retain 30 percent of Toffoli’s $4.6 million cap hit.)

Kings trade Alec Martinez to the Colorado Avalanche in exchange for a 2021 second-round pick and prospect Sampo Ranta.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

What?

Plenty of bad teams trade older more expensive players to get younger and build for the future. You will see teams do it in the next couple weeks leading up to the deadline. The Kings were on their way to missing the playoffs for a 2nd time in 3 years and had a dismal farm system.

In a vacuum, you are right, and with hindsight, you are right. Problem is, reality doesn't live in a vacuum, and hindsight doesn't matter. You wanted a pro sports team, who was at that point 2 years away from a cup win, to trade their 2nd line C who was having a fantastic year, because 3 years down the road they might have been bad? Again, please show me a team who is competing for the playoffs, trade a top 6 forward for futures.....

You are right however, teams trade older expensive players all the time to get younger and build for the future, the Kings were not that team in 2016-2017.

 

[Herby]

In a vacuum, you are right, and with hindsight, you are right. Problem is, reality doesn't live in a vacuum, and hindsight doesn't matter. You wanted a pro sports team, who was at that point 2 years away from a cup win, to trade their 2nd line C who was having a fantastic year, because 3 years down the road they might have been bad? Again, please show me a team who is competing for the playoffs, trade a top 6 forward for futures.....

You are right however, teams trade older expensive players all the time to get younger and build for the future, the Kings were not that team in 2016-2017.

Your last part makes no sense, why weren't they that team? It was 2017 at the time, the Cups were in 2014 and 2012. They weren't bad three years down the road, they were bad at the time and other than one insanely flukey year that resulted in 0 playoff wins they have been bad since.

Who cares about angering a roster that simply hadn't produced enough results, DL and then Blake attempted to appease that core and look at what ended up happening. Sports is a results oriented business and usually (apparently not the case in LA) when the results aren't there significant changes are made, the players aren't stupid, they know how it works.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Your last part makes no sense, why weren't they that team? It was 2017 at the time, the Cups were in 2014 and 2012. They weren't bad three years down the road, they were bad at the time and other than one insanely flukey year that resulted in 0 playoff wins they have been bad since.

Who cares about angering a roster that simply hadn't produced enough results, DL and then Blake attempted to appease that core and look at what ended up happening. Sports is a results oriented business and usually (apparently not the case in LA) when the results aren't there significant changes are made, the players aren't stupid, they know how it works.

When you say 2017, I am taking that as 2016-2017.

So 2013-2014 - Cup Win
2014-2015 - 2 points away from playoffs in other words, contending, competing
2015-2016 - 2nd in Pacific, 102 points
2016-2017 - THIS IS THE YEAR YOU WANTED THEM TO DEAL CARTER.

But yea, they were BAD AT THE TIME, coming off of a 102 point season, competing for another playoff spot, they did end up missing by six points, and then in 2017-2018, they made the playoffs again...

 

[Herby]

When you say 2017, I am taking that as 2016-2017.

So 2013-2014 - Cup Win
2014-2015 - 2 points away from playoffs in other words, contending, competing
2015-2016 - 2nd in Pacific, 102 points
2016-2017 - THIS IS THE YEAR YOU WANTED THEM TO DEAL CARTER.

But yea, they were BAD AT THE TIME, coming off of a 102 point season, competing for another playoff spot, they did end up missing by six points, and then in 2017-2018, they made the playoffs again...

They were not contenders, and they had a 32 year old asset that would have had value to contending teams around the league (sorry KF8724 it only takes one and someone would have been in on him).

What is the upside to a team that was on it's way to having one playoff win in three seasons and had at the time a consensus bottom five system in the league to keeping Jeff Carter?

Missing the playoffs one year, getting dominated another year and then missing the year after that doesn't make a team a contender. The Kings have won 1 playoff game since the cup wins and you are afraid of making changes, it's amazing, oh well I hope you're happy with the current state of the team, it didn't have to be this way.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

They were not contenders, and they had a 32 year old asset that would have had value to contending teams around the league (sorry KF8724 it only takes one and someone would have been in on him).

What is the upside to a team that was on it's way to having one playoff win in three seasons and had at the time a consensus bottom five system in the league to keeping Jeff Carter?

Missing the playoffs one year, getting dominated another year and then missing the year after that doesn't make a team a contender. The Kings have won 1 playoff game since the cup wins and you are afraid of making changes, it's amazing, oh well I hope you're happy with the current state of the team, it didn't have to be this way.

There's a reason why hindsight is called 20/20, again, in REALITY, in PRO SPORTS, you aren't dismantling a team that had 102 points, was 2nd in the division, not even a year earlier, please show me ONE TEAM, just ONE TEAM that has done that without any other type of influence, (ie, financial reasons, etc)

It simply is not done, so you are trying to fault management, for not doing something that isn't done, because it didn't work out.

With your reasoning, the Capitals should be trying to trade this offseason, Oshie, Backstrom, Carlson, Eller, Holtby, because their farm system is meh, and they lost last year in the 1st round....right? I mean....that's what you are arguing LA should have done.....

 

[Herby]

There's a reason why hindsight is called 20/20, again, in REALITY, in PRO SPORTS, you aren't dismantling a team that had 102 points, was 2nd in the division, not even a year earlier, please show me ONE TEAM, just ONE TEAM that has done that without any other type of influence, (ie, financial reasons, etc)

It simply is not done, so you are trying to fault management, for not doing something that isn't done, because it didn't work out.

With your reasoning, the Capitals should be trying to trade this offseason, Oshie, Backstrom, Carlson, Eller, Holtby, because their farm system is meh, and they lost last year in the 1st round....right? I mean....that's what you are arguing LA should have done.....

You always bring up hindsight. But there were plenty of people on this very board who wanted to see those changes made.

And LOL at the 2020 Caps being a comparable situation to the 2017 Kings, I mean are you serious? They are currently THE BEST TEAM IN THE NHL. But thanks again for proving why no one here takes you seriously. wow just wow.

 

[KINGS17]

It's funny, everyone talks about the bad contracts but there was very little criticism towards either GM when all of them were signed. It's kind of like congress, everyone hates congress but won't be critical at the micro-level.

Most were happy when they signed all these guys and balked at the idea of trading any of them. Once it became apparent that the team's run was over they should have decided which one of Kopitar and Doughty they were going to keep as the face of the franchise and moved on from everyone else.

Another year of paying $20+m to two players who's best days are behind them and having a team lightyears from contending. And each guy is on the hook for alot more years as declining assets. I'm honestly shocked the bean-counters at AEG allow it to happen.

Just hypothetical, what if at the 2017 deadline the Kings began a rebuild. What if they unloaded Carter who was having a great season at that deadline, along with Lewis (who was also having a great season)? What if they made the decision to keep Kopitar and unloaded Doughty in the summer of 2017 and unloaded Quick sometime shortly thereafter. There is no Phaneuf dead space, no Kovalchuk dead space, a top 5 pick in 2018 plus whatever assets they got for guys like Carter, Lewis, Muzzin etc.

It would have resulted in being beyond terrible, but in the end the same number of playoff wins and the franchise is likely loaded with many more high end prospects right now and is probably atleast seeing the light at the end of the tunnel when it comes to getting out of this disaster. Sad that two different GM's couldn't see this and insisted on doubling down with this overrated core.

I might change my screen name to "Little Criticism".

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

They were not contenders, and they had a 32 year old asset that would have had value to contending teams around the league (sorry KF8724 it only takes one and someone would have been in on him).

What is the upside to a team that was on it's way to having one playoff win in three seasons and had at the time a consensus bottom five system in the league to keeping Jeff Carter?

Missing the playoffs one year, getting dominated another year and then missing the year after that doesn't make a team a contender. The Kings have won 1 playoff game since the cup wins and you are afraid of making changes, it's amazing, oh well I hope you're happy with the current state of the team, it didn't have to be this way.

Flip it around: What is the upside to a team that missed the playoffs in a nightmare season in 2015 with the same point total they had in a Cup win, and were back to being a 102-point team in 2016, trading their top-tier 2C? Yes, start the rebuild early--but you also have to acknowledge there's a flipside to it even if you disagree with it.

The problem is the people that vocally disagree with that are so dismissive of others' opinions. Your opinion is valid, so is GBHs, it's only 'proven' in hindsight. Otherwise you'd fully admit the Blues should have been torn apart in December or any amount of years before that, yet here we are.

We can all VALIDLY disagree on when the Kings should have started getting dismantled--supported with good evidence, like that you've brought--and I'm hardly participating in these discussions anymore because it's yawn-worthy that some seem to feel there was only one way to do this and try to ridicule those who feel otherwise.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

You always bring up hindsight. But there were plenty of people on this very board who wanted to see those changes made.

And LOL at the 2020 Caps being a comparable situation to the 2017 Kings, I mean are you serious? They are currently THE BEST TEAM IN THE NHL. But thanks again for proving why no one here takes you seriously. wow just wow.

I gotta explain want then I guess to you, you have YET to show a team, ANY TEAM in PRO SPORTS, that will trade a top player for futures, less than one year removed from being a top 10 team in the league....why is that?

As far as the 2020 Caps, you realize that 2 weeks prior to this week last year, the Blues were the WORST team....right? I mean, according to your logic, the Caps who got SWEPT last year, should be looking to deal 30+ players, because their farm system is not good, and in three years, they might suck.....that's the EXACT SAME SITUATION, that you suggest LA do it, so why not WAS? Oh yea, because TEAMS DON'T FREAKING DO THAT.

You have yet to show one team that has, I'm waiting, please.

Are the 2019-2020 Caps better than the 2016-2017 Kings? They are surely playing better, but roster wise, were they better?

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Flip it around: What is the upside to a team that missed the playoffs in a nightmare season in 2015 with the same point total they had in a Cup win, and were back to being a 102-point team in 2016, trading their top-tier 2C? Yes, start the rebuild early--but you also have to acknowledge there's a flipside to it even if you disagree with it.

The problem is the people that vocally disagree with that are so dismissive of others' opinions. Your opinion is valid, so is GBHs, it's only 'proven' in hindsight. Otherwise you'd fully admit the Blues should have been torn apart in December or any amount of years before that, yet here we are.

We can all VALIDLY disagree on when the Kings should have started getting dismantled--supported with good evidence, like that you've brought--and I'm hardly participating in these discussions anymore because it's yawn-worthy that some seem to feel there was only one way to do this and try to ridicule those who feel otherwise.

Exactly, maybe St. Louis was a better analogy than Washington,

I'm not saying Herby is wrong, he's not. I am saying however to place blame on management is ludicrous when it's something that just isn't done in pro sports.

What LA is going through, is the natural cycle of teams that win in cap leagues.....